50 hours dual, 8 hours solo?!!!!!!!!!
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50 hours dual, 8 hours solo?!!!!!!!!!
anyone got any clues what to do with particular students, who can't seem to fly the aircraft straight and level after some extraordinary amount of dual time? What do you do?!!! Surely it can't be time to give up yet, right? Anyone know what how to correct the problem?
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I had a fifty something lady with such a problem - she now has her PPL.
She seemed to make things far more complicated than they needed to be.
Keep it simple.
She talked too much - that didn't help - much of it was negative self-talk relating to women pilots which I re-programmed out of her
Essentially its a confidence thing
She seemed to make things far more complicated than they needed to be.
Keep it simple.
She talked too much - that didn't help - much of it was negative self-talk relating to women pilots which I re-programmed out of her
Essentially its a confidence thing
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Might be worth getting someone else to fly with them. Doen't always work but sometimes subtly different methods of teaching can pay dividends. I don't worry too much about straight and level so long as they don't get lost or crash the thing when they try and land. Finesse can come later (assuming they can get through the test). Oh yeah, and make sure you cover up the artificial horizon in case they're trying to fly using it instead of the real one.
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 13 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 13 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 13 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 13 March 2001).]
Glasgow's Gallus Gigolo .... PPRuNeing is like making love to a beautiful woman ... I take hours.
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The really mean way is to get a watch with an altimeter in it, turn on the recording function, and wait. Then, after she's flown straight and level for a while, you can say- eg, you're now 150 feet higher than you started. However, you've actually climbed and descended 2000 feet, and at one point you were 500 feet above this point! Might not help the student, but it's fun!
OK, seriously now, I would suggest you look quite hard at trimming. It's so drummed into us by this stage, it's easy to overlook in a stude. Is she really trimming the aeroplane, or just seeming to? Do the hands-off test.
If this is something you've already looked at, I'll wind my neck back in....
OK, seriously now, I would suggest you look quite hard at trimming. It's so drummed into us by this stage, it's easy to overlook in a stude. Is she really trimming the aeroplane, or just seeming to? Do the hands-off test.
If this is something you've already looked at, I'll wind my neck back in....
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I agree with RVR800 and also agree with DB6 re: the AH but would ask another question - how many instructors has this person been through? What was the continuity like? I met some people last week who were lost partly because they had never flown with the same instructor more than three times in a row (>60 hrs total, <10hrs PIC) and nobody ever really got to know them enough to trust them on their own. Nobody had ever been able to get inside their head and 'see' what the problem was well enough to sort it out. In your situation this might not be the case, but I thought I'd throw it in just to be sure.
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I might have missed something here, but is there actually anything wrong with having 50 hours dual and 8 solo??
Were you implying that it is only 'bad' if the student still can't manage straight and level after that amount of time??
I'm a student pilot myself with about 45 hours dual and three PIC - and I don't see this as being a particular problem. Quite a few hours were wasted at the beginning of the course due to wx abandoned flights, instructor changes etc...
Whilst I'm at it, would anyone be able to tell me the average number of hours a student has on completion of the PPL?? Passing the 45 hours mark I was a bit depressed that I hadn't done it in minimum hours so I'd be interested to hear how long other take.
Happy Flying,
SpeedBird22
Were you implying that it is only 'bad' if the student still can't manage straight and level after that amount of time??
I'm a student pilot myself with about 45 hours dual and three PIC - and I don't see this as being a particular problem. Quite a few hours were wasted at the beginning of the course due to wx abandoned flights, instructor changes etc...
Whilst I'm at it, would anyone be able to tell me the average number of hours a student has on completion of the PPL?? Passing the 45 hours mark I was a bit depressed that I hadn't done it in minimum hours so I'd be interested to hear how long other take.
Happy Flying,
SpeedBird22
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I intended to acquire my PPL in the minumum time (45hrs under the current JAR-FCL), and actually did it in about 48hrs. However, I did all my training in a Class D environment, and there are several scenarios in which I am less than confident, eg standard overhead joins at uncontrolled airfields, landing on grass-strips, and cross-wind landings. I will undoubtedly request additional sessions with an instructor to refine these skills.
The point is, do not worry unduly about the number of hours it takes - worry about being sufficiently competent to be able to handle any situation you may be faced with when eventually qualified to fly solo on your own ticket.
The point is, do not worry unduly about the number of hours it takes - worry about being sufficiently competent to be able to handle any situation you may be faced with when eventually qualified to fly solo on your own ticket.
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Speedbird 22, nothing wrong at all, it's the straight & level bit that is the concern. That said, if you've done 45 hours dual, a bit more solo time might be in order, if your instructor is happy of course. Not many do it in 45 hours but then again I've one student who will probably do it in 46-48 hours including a night qualfication.
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 17 March 2001).]
[This message has been edited by DB6 (edited 17 March 2001).]
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Have to confess, it's a particular problem of mine - I've spent (and continue to spend) far too much time looking in and not enough looking out. Consequently I'm far too concerned (I think) with what my VSI is telling me and am still not quite confident enough, even after some 32 hours, to rely entirely on what the horizon is telling me. Don't know if it's a common problem, and with me I think it's because I don't get to fly all that often, but I agree with The Flying I: cover up the instruments.
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Hi there,
I went over to the US to do my PPL, and I was hit by bad weather and maint. I lost about 13 days. I went solo.But I had a hairy experience. This ruffled up my confidence. I thus decided that its better to have the hours required for myself to feel confident in order to tackle all types of scenarios. I am now in a position where I ahve to return with out completion..either to finish it of back in the UK or I shall return back to the US.
Would I retain alot orit would be possibleto pick it all up in a 1-2 hrs?? Please could some one give me some advise on this.
Thanks
AMS
I went over to the US to do my PPL, and I was hit by bad weather and maint. I lost about 13 days. I went solo.But I had a hairy experience. This ruffled up my confidence. I thus decided that its better to have the hours required for myself to feel confident in order to tackle all types of scenarios. I am now in a position where I ahve to return with out completion..either to finish it of back in the UK or I shall return back to the US.
Would I retain alot orit would be possibleto pick it all up in a 1-2 hrs?? Please could some one give me some advise on this.
Thanks
AMS
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Straight and levl can be a real thorn in the side of a student and an instructor. But as many have said, make sure they arent chasing the instruments. Postion, Hold, Trim, check the vsi.....repeat....etc.
Not an easy one!
Ive never instructed, but I take my hat off to all of you that do - you are all worth much more money.
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If it aint a Boeing, then, erm, its probably an Airbus
Not an easy one!
Ive never instructed, but I take my hat off to all of you that do - you are all worth much more money.
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If it aint a Boeing, then, erm, its probably an Airbus
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As Captain Homesick put it, I feel that trim, trim, trim is important. After all, if the A/C is trimmed properly, it won't go anywhere else but where assigned to go. Saying that, I had great difficulties in teaching doctors to fly as they thought far too much so the natural feeling wasn't there.
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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe
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If you can't save the engine...save the airframe
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I managed to solo in 8 hrs, got the PPL in 30. I had a ex-millitary flyer for an instructor, who had a policy of never fly with a working panel. every flight after going solo was done with 1 or more of the flight instruments covered, my favourite was doing circuits with the ASI covered. my accuracy in straight and level was done by doing a few hours with a covered VSI, learning to fly level using altitude alone.
Im not sure if this is a military flyer thing but the numerous hours with partial panels has made me a beter pilot i believe.
All this training came to prove itself taking a fellow pilot on a short trip in a jabiru, The jabiru is easily effected by water, and flying in rain tends to stuff up your ASI. all during the flight the ASI showed nothing was wrong, as we approached our destination, we began decending to circuit height, this is when my passenger/co-pilot noticed the ASI hasnt moved, i pulled power back for a few seconds and confirmed a frozen ASI, it was no problem for me as i have flown many hours in this aircraft without an ASI, but my passenger was getting obviously nervous. The approach and landing were textbook, but my passenger/copilot didnt relax or say anything untill we were firmly on the ground and begun to turn off the runway. It is pretty obvious to me he had never flown with a failed instrument, let alone something as important as the ASI.
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Yeah, Zoom Zoom Zoom
Im not sure if this is a military flyer thing but the numerous hours with partial panels has made me a beter pilot i believe.
All this training came to prove itself taking a fellow pilot on a short trip in a jabiru, The jabiru is easily effected by water, and flying in rain tends to stuff up your ASI. all during the flight the ASI showed nothing was wrong, as we approached our destination, we began decending to circuit height, this is when my passenger/co-pilot noticed the ASI hasnt moved, i pulled power back for a few seconds and confirmed a frozen ASI, it was no problem for me as i have flown many hours in this aircraft without an ASI, but my passenger was getting obviously nervous. The approach and landing were textbook, but my passenger/copilot didnt relax or say anything untill we were firmly on the ground and begun to turn off the runway. It is pretty obvious to me he had never flown with a failed instrument, let alone something as important as the ASI.
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Yeah, Zoom Zoom Zoom
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We had a cadet back at the old school in NZ that was 46 hours to first solo - even then he rounded out at about 400 feet and stalled the thing the whole way down finals. A 140 hour PPL as I recall. The CFI tried to kick him off the course but the company wouldn't have a bar of it, I think his old man was a major shareholder in the airline. That guy is now flying shiny big tubes around Indonesia.
Moral of the story is, everyone gets there in the end. I don't know your experience levels Cypher, but jobs like this are not for low time instructors. Give the student to the most experienced and patient instructor you can find and keep on trying ... sometimes the penny drops all of a sudden with a change in instructing technique.
Moral of the story is, everyone gets there in the end. I don't know your experience levels Cypher, but jobs like this are not for low time instructors. Give the student to the most experienced and patient instructor you can find and keep on trying ... sometimes the penny drops all of a sudden with a change in instructing technique.