BAE for sale???
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BAE for sale???
I`ve heard that an US based flight training organisation has expressed an interest in purchasing the BAE owned flight school at Jerez and also the accomodation block located at Prestwick which was previously used by BAE when they operated there. Does anybody know if there is any truth in this???????
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Adamton House
The accomodation block, better known as Adamton House, was expanded for 256 students [16 courses X 16 students] which is what was needed for BA courses lasting 16 months. A Rolls Royce course in civilian training until cheaper options were required to keep the cost down. QUALITY was the original concept - until the beancounters decided otherwise.
After the college moved to Spain, the Home Office showed interest in it for the "overseas vistors". This idea was dropped, and I think to local fire service also showed interest for a while.
How Jerez and Adamton House can be mentioned in the same breath is, to say the least, interesting.
Prestwick is an ideal location for multi-IR training.
After the college moved to Spain, the Home Office showed interest in it for the "overseas vistors". This idea was dropped, and I think to local fire service also showed interest for a while.
How Jerez and Adamton House can be mentioned in the same breath is, to say the least, interesting.
Prestwick is an ideal location for multi-IR training.
Last edited by ecj; 20th Sep 2003 at 03:18.
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I have heard this rumour as well. maybe this American FTO intends starting where BAE left off.
As far as I am aware BAE moved to Spain, among other reasons, because the good old British weather caused to many interuptions to their flight training. I have also been told that the lack of an alternative runway and the regularly high temperatures at Jerez (above 35) cause BAE more lost time than they ever had at Prestwick.
There is certainly a market for commercial flight training in the UK so if an american FTO wanted to expand their business why not tap into the space left by BAE and train at Prestwick which has been proven as an excellent location for comercial flight training.
As far as I am aware BAE moved to Spain, among other reasons, because the good old British weather caused to many interuptions to their flight training. I have also been told that the lack of an alternative runway and the regularly high temperatures at Jerez (above 35) cause BAE more lost time than they ever had at Prestwick.
There is certainly a market for commercial flight training in the UK so if an american FTO wanted to expand their business why not tap into the space left by BAE and train at Prestwick which has been proven as an excellent location for comercial flight training.
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IR Training @ PIK
@ ecj : "Prestwick is an ideal location for multi IR training"
& @ US : "why not tap into the space left by BAE and train at Prestwick which has been proven as an excellent location for comercial flight training"
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I fear this is no longer true - the expansion of Ryanair, the number of heavy freighters & the increased use of the airfield by the military means that most of the training will be practising holds ! Already, locally based flying training is limited when jet circuits are taking place. In addition, the limited controlled airspace which will be instated on 30/10/2003 suggests that the freedom enjoyed by instrument trainers in the past will be severely limited.
& @ US : "why not tap into the space left by BAE and train at Prestwick which has been proven as an excellent location for comercial flight training"
-------------------------------------------
I fear this is no longer true - the expansion of Ryanair, the number of heavy freighters & the increased use of the airfield by the military means that most of the training will be practising holds ! Already, locally based flying training is limited when jet circuits are taking place. In addition, the limited controlled airspace which will be instated on 30/10/2003 suggests that the freedom enjoyed by instrument trainers in the past will be severely limited.
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Prestwick CAS
off watch
1. What makes you think that all IR training would be conducted wholly at Prestwick? Speak to any Prestwick or ScACC controller who would confirm that most BAe twins would depart by 1000 local, and conduct IR training elsewhere, returning late afternoon. Airfield/route exposure is Quality training. The IRT profile is, in essence, is depart from A, ILS at B, divert to C for NDB.
EGPK - EGAA - EGAE was a typical route.
Far better than the old routes A & B only at EGHH.
2. The introduction of CAS would be a positive move for IR training. Proper SIDs to fly. Excellent.
3. Circuit training was always subject to commercial operations. The present amount airline training is certainly no more then in BAe college days.
4. Prestwick remains a quiet airfield compared to say EGPF & EGPH; sufficently quiet to base a FTO for IR training I would suggest, notwithstanding the increased numbers of commercial services.
5. The acid test of "busy" is when GMC is opened. Until that happens, Prestwick would be viable for IR training.
1. What makes you think that all IR training would be conducted wholly at Prestwick? Speak to any Prestwick or ScACC controller who would confirm that most BAe twins would depart by 1000 local, and conduct IR training elsewhere, returning late afternoon. Airfield/route exposure is Quality training. The IRT profile is, in essence, is depart from A, ILS at B, divert to C for NDB.
EGPK - EGAA - EGAE was a typical route.
Far better than the old routes A & B only at EGHH.
2. The introduction of CAS would be a positive move for IR training. Proper SIDs to fly. Excellent.
3. Circuit training was always subject to commercial operations. The present amount airline training is certainly no more then in BAe college days.
4. Prestwick remains a quiet airfield compared to say EGPF & EGPH; sufficently quiet to base a FTO for IR training I would suggest, notwithstanding the increased numbers of commercial services.
5. The acid test of "busy" is when GMC is opened. Until that happens, Prestwick would be viable for IR training.
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ecj
I guess it's all a question of scale - if the plan was for, say, four aircraft carrying out IR training , I'd say you're correct , but if someone is thinking of emulating BAe, I reckon they're on a loser.
There was never any co-ordination between the PA34's regarding their tasks- ask any ex Cygnet instructor how much time was wasted holding because everyone arrived back at the same time. I've no idea why the BA College quit PIK, but I suspect landing fees and delays must have been part of the problem - has anything changed to improve that ?
As for GMC, I reckon there are already occasions when GMC should be open but I wonder if PIK management would pay for the extra controllers needed, as most of the extra RT seems to come from the GA flights, many of whom are no doubt on the discounted landing fees that training flights receive ?
I guess it's all a question of scale - if the plan was for, say, four aircraft carrying out IR training , I'd say you're correct , but if someone is thinking of emulating BAe, I reckon they're on a loser.
There was never any co-ordination between the PA34's regarding their tasks- ask any ex Cygnet instructor how much time was wasted holding because everyone arrived back at the same time. I've no idea why the BA College quit PIK, but I suspect landing fees and delays must have been part of the problem - has anything changed to improve that ?
As for GMC, I reckon there are already occasions when GMC should be open but I wonder if PIK management would pay for the extra controllers needed, as most of the extra RT seems to come from the GA flights, many of whom are no doubt on the discounted landing fees that training flights receive ?
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The Goon, the answer to your question is basically YES!
Not sure about the Adamton House deal, but Jerez would seem to be for sale or possibly facing closure. Basically, BAE seem to be moving away from the civil flight training market, and towards military training instead. It would make sense of course when you look at the market as a whole. Currently the biggest demand is for Military Flight Training, and of course BAE must answer to a group of investors who are currently wondering if their share price can drop any further!
ECJ you have some very valid points, however as BAE have already left Prestwick, for the reason that it was unprofitable, it is hardly likely that they will relocate there again! After all, I have never known any management (particularly ex-military) to admit that they were wrong!
Off Watch, I think that you have hit the nail on the head! Sadly there is so poor co-ordination in the management ranks of BAE, that what you say is exactly true. You could ask the same question to any Jerez or Seville ATCO, who are always wondering why all the Cygnets are programmed to depart and arrive at the same time!
In the mean time, you can still join the BAE Systems Rowing Team. Vacancies for 6 (management) blokes steering, and 1 (instructor) bloke rowing..............Yes it does go around in circles all day!
Not sure about the Adamton House deal, but Jerez would seem to be for sale or possibly facing closure. Basically, BAE seem to be moving away from the civil flight training market, and towards military training instead. It would make sense of course when you look at the market as a whole. Currently the biggest demand is for Military Flight Training, and of course BAE must answer to a group of investors who are currently wondering if their share price can drop any further!
ECJ you have some very valid points, however as BAE have already left Prestwick, for the reason that it was unprofitable, it is hardly likely that they will relocate there again! After all, I have never known any management (particularly ex-military) to admit that they were wrong!
Off Watch, I think that you have hit the nail on the head! Sadly there is so poor co-ordination in the management ranks of BAE, that what you say is exactly true. You could ask the same question to any Jerez or Seville ATCO, who are always wondering why all the Cygnets are programmed to depart and arrive at the same time!
In the mean time, you can still join the BAE Systems Rowing Team. Vacancies for 6 (management) blokes steering, and 1 (instructor) bloke rowing..............Yes it does go around in circles all day!
