Friends of Flight Virtual Dispatch
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Virtual Dispatch (Simulated Dispatch in aviation college)
Which Aviation Authority would accept or recognise a well set up virtual Dispatch office for a virtual Airline as a substitute for students industrial attachment.
It's a big initiative involving, Microsoft, VATSIM, fsbuild for flight planning, Aviation Colleges, KCAA and FOF virtual Airline simulating Airline Operations as real as it gets......
FOF001
Callsign Rafiki001
It's a big initiative involving, Microsoft, VATSIM, fsbuild for flight planning, Aviation Colleges, KCAA and FOF virtual Airline simulating Airline Operations as real as it gets......
FOF001
Callsign Rafiki001
Last edited by FOF001; 13th Oct 2012 at 12:58.
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Err, Not one I hope!
Aviation isn't a game! This is a real industry. Get it wrong and people die!
Good God, give me strength.
Aviation isn't a game! This is a real industry. Get it wrong and people die!
Good God, give me strength.
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I'm sure the first time the real flight simulators were designed they were described as "games" Simulation has proven to be the most effective method of training, it's been used by pilots and Air traffic controllers. Instrument ratings were only done in real airplanes in the past......this is not necessary any more, and it's with this thinking outside the box that made people accept simulation and eventually state of the art simulators were built.
Don't get me wrong, flight dispatch and fuel uplift calculations are a very serious aspect of aviation, simulators are being used by pilots, air traffic controllers and spacemen alike, I think it wouldn't hurt to have a similar facility for dispatchers at the initial college level regulated of course by civil aviation authorities.
I will prove this is possible, viable, and we will have better dispatchers the world around.
Clearly I see it will not be easy but hopefully after a heated debate a good path will be drawn in the direction of virtual Dispatch to enhance dispatcher initial training at college level.
Don't get me wrong, flight dispatch and fuel uplift calculations are a very serious aspect of aviation, simulators are being used by pilots, air traffic controllers and spacemen alike, I think it wouldn't hurt to have a similar facility for dispatchers at the initial college level regulated of course by civil aviation authorities.
I will prove this is possible, viable, and we will have better dispatchers the world around.
Clearly I see it will not be easy but hopefully after a heated debate a good path will be drawn in the direction of virtual Dispatch to enhance dispatcher initial training at college level.
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First of all it would be nice to understand the roles to be simulated, who is involved to make the simulation a reality and what the dispatcher will gain at the end of the say 3 month simulated dispatch.
Simulated roles,
1. Computerised flight planning: Basic (A software that has a performance database, Navigation database, that can fairly accurately deduce fuel requirements as per ICAO legal fuel requirements based on prevailing WX conditions. There are many such applications that are suitable for training and very similar to what is used in real life, i.e Sabre, SITA/Graphlite LIDO e.t.c
Some suggested training applications.... Cost less than 30 euros FSBUILD very accurate, and I have compared the results with Graphlite/SITA plan.
2. Generation of WX and NOTAMS : this is available through many free websites pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/pilotweb/
aviation weather.gov/adds/tags/
3.Communication: this is available through teamspeak software. Many other softwares to simulate Data transmission FSACARS.*
Who is involved.
1. Dispatch Students and instructors to make sure the simulation is following ICAO ISARPS*
2. Flights networks like VATSIM, IVAO has over 500000s user combined who fly very sophisticated simulators and for very organised virtual airlines run by real pilots, controllers and other aviators alike which people say are games but as a pilot with 3000 hrs and a dispatch background these networks have a great potential. There are more than 2 million flights recorded over a span of 5 years or so....there will be many flights to dispatch . I suggest a trial of this network before anyone shoots it down.*
VATSIM - The International Online Flying Network: Welcome to VATSIM, www.vataware.com*
What will be gained.
After real tertiary dispatch training, a 3 month intensive simulation like this under the watchful eye of a licences dispatcher will prepare a dispatch student further and he will be ready to work from day one of employment. Further training with the airlines on specific software will be so much easier and hardly necessary. A simple manual will be good enough. Or 2 day course at most.
But it will need regulation from authorities to make sure it serves it's purpose which is why I brought this suggestion.
Simulated roles,
1. Computerised flight planning: Basic (A software that has a performance database, Navigation database, that can fairly accurately deduce fuel requirements as per ICAO legal fuel requirements based on prevailing WX conditions. There are many such applications that are suitable for training and very similar to what is used in real life, i.e Sabre, SITA/Graphlite LIDO e.t.c
Some suggested training applications.... Cost less than 30 euros FSBUILD very accurate, and I have compared the results with Graphlite/SITA plan.
2. Generation of WX and NOTAMS : this is available through many free websites pilotweb.nas.faa.gov/pilotweb/
aviation weather.gov/adds/tags/
3.Communication: this is available through teamspeak software. Many other softwares to simulate Data transmission FSACARS.*
Who is involved.
1. Dispatch Students and instructors to make sure the simulation is following ICAO ISARPS*
2. Flights networks like VATSIM, IVAO has over 500000s user combined who fly very sophisticated simulators and for very organised virtual airlines run by real pilots, controllers and other aviators alike which people say are games but as a pilot with 3000 hrs and a dispatch background these networks have a great potential. There are more than 2 million flights recorded over a span of 5 years or so....there will be many flights to dispatch . I suggest a trial of this network before anyone shoots it down.*
VATSIM - The International Online Flying Network: Welcome to VATSIM, www.vataware.com*
What will be gained.
After real tertiary dispatch training, a 3 month intensive simulation like this under the watchful eye of a licences dispatcher will prepare a dispatch student further and he will be ready to work from day one of employment. Further training with the airlines on specific software will be so much easier and hardly necessary. A simple manual will be good enough. Or 2 day course at most.
But it will need regulation from authorities to make sure it serves it's purpose which is why I brought this suggestion.
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Yes, I know Vatsim and other real-time global simulators (and I'm sure I will participate to it later on during my flight training) so I guess virtual Flight Dispatch is just waiting to happen. Students and enthusiasts would benefit a lto from it.
So you want to sell it to training schools? I guess someone will see its potential.
But do you really need approval/regulations from authorities? Do these simulators have such a thing? I'm ignorant about this, but I guess the only approval you need is from the users who will tell you if it's a useful tool or not.
So you want to sell it to training schools? I guess someone will see its potential.
But do you really need approval/regulations from authorities? Do these simulators have such a thing? I'm ignorant about this, but I guess the only approval you need is from the users who will tell you if it's a useful tool or not.
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The users want it yes, but they want to cash in.
It is mandatory to be attached to a dispatch office for most contracting states, the problem is there are not enough opportunities for students to get this on job experience. They end up in the meteorology office, check in, flight ops engineering and other offices which don't really do any flight dispatch or crew briefing e.t.c.
If a set up like this is done well, I.e has approval from authorities as a suitable substitute especially for those who can't get attachment with the airlines that's it, the best college cashes in on all the students.
Everyone wins, new concept will produce good dispatchers, everyone gets a feel of what real airline dispatch entails, software developers cash in as well as they tap into this market, all students will get a chance to play toy around all aspects of dispatch and no one dies here due to gross errors as it is all SIMULATED.
It is mandatory to be attached to a dispatch office for most contracting states, the problem is there are not enough opportunities for students to get this on job experience. They end up in the meteorology office, check in, flight ops engineering and other offices which don't really do any flight dispatch or crew briefing e.t.c.
If a set up like this is done well, I.e has approval from authorities as a suitable substitute especially for those who can't get attachment with the airlines that's it, the best college cashes in on all the students.
Everyone wins, new concept will produce good dispatchers, everyone gets a feel of what real airline dispatch entails, software developers cash in as well as they tap into this market, all students will get a chance to play toy around all aspects of dispatch and no one dies here due to gross errors as it is all SIMULATED.
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My experience is that "everyone wins" projects are truly a product of genius but very hard to break into an investor's mind. I believe your idea of simulated dispatch is a great one and I would be signing in right away. But me, I'm just a wannabe FD, and I have no idea how they teach this at schools... maybe they already have their means of simulating the job.
I wish I could help you promoting this project but I have no contacts whatsoever and no idea where to start from.
I wish I could help you promoting this project but I have no contacts whatsoever and no idea where to start from.
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all it takes is a bit of more interest in flight dispatch, that's all. it's good to get a feel of what people think of this concept outside the comfort zone of my region.
major tasks will be engaging software developers to use flight planning tools commercially, that's basically it.
About to finish the paper work with one, but every user has to but individual licences.
Dispatch instructor-Student-Computer-basic dispatch tool-Virtual Airline-internet
Pretty much sums up all you need
major tasks will be engaging software developers to use flight planning tools commercially, that's basically it.
About to finish the paper work with one, but every user has to but individual licences.
Dispatch instructor-Student-Computer-basic dispatch tool-Virtual Airline-internet
Pretty much sums up all you need
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dear FOF001, soon some day I'll begin my Dispatch training and once I'll be more into it I will try to contact you on this project and see what we can do to promote it. Ok? 
Is it just me... but I spend all day working dispatch... when I finish and go home, I like to put my feet up, have a beer, talk to my wife (if she's lucky), watch some TV and relax... don't really fancy turning on my PC (other computer platforms are available) and doing it virtually for fun (and no pay)....
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Afterwork (non-virtual) shutoff
@plans 123 you're spot on! After dealing with IN/IG + Y & Z variations thereof, my interest in any kind of computing, (and especially gaming!) is nil.
I really don't understand the need to "fly" virtually from A to B, can these sims be paused?
I really don't understand the need to "fly" virtually from A to B, can these sims be paused?
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Yes, mini-pgo has the same fascination with the virtual, give him another 5 years or so to grow up.
I could be a virtual CAA, let's say the Indians or better yet, the Chinese, somewhere unavoidable and complicated.
I could be a virtual CAA, let's say the Indians or better yet, the Chinese, somewhere unavoidable and complicated.
Thanks for the offer but no thanks... I'll stick to following the oval ball and interacting with actual real life flesh and bone human beings.
I still can't see this 'virtual' dispatch training you speak of working though. You can attend courses and do practice, but you need actual hands on experience... Computer simuations can only go so far and are only as good as the person programming it. I've been working in various Ops and Dispatch jobs for years... And I'm still learning.
I still can't see this 'virtual' dispatch training you speak of working though. You can attend courses and do practice, but you need actual hands on experience... Computer simuations can only go so far and are only as good as the person programming it. I've been working in various Ops and Dispatch jobs for years... And I'm still learning.
Sorry, and all, but it's a toy. MSFS is a toy as are all of the flight planning packages. Mine frequently plans the wrong way down one way airways, takes me 750nm on a 200 mile hop etc etc.
Until ALL of these issues are sorted out I would suggest such a scheme would be no good for real life training. Having said that, I saw an airline on telly using MSFS as a proper simulator, must remember not to fly with them.
Gawd help us all, some simmers get the rest of us a bad name by posting on the other parts of PPRuNE and claiming knowledge of things technical and professional, please don't start here as well.
Doc C
Until ALL of these issues are sorted out I would suggest such a scheme would be no good for real life training. Having said that, I saw an airline on telly using MSFS as a proper simulator, must remember not to fly with them.
Gawd help us all, some simmers get the rest of us a bad name by posting on the other parts of PPRuNE and claiming knowledge of things technical and professional, please don't start here as well.
Doc C
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Virtually somewhere
Sorry GG, I really don't see how for example a virtual W&B, even if directly linked to a virtual aircraft can come close to the real thing. In this simulated world would there be last minute changes, equipment failures, diversions etc and all of the attendant replanning? Would there be virtual overflight permits and ATC or airport slots? Would there to be virtual OMs and virtual audits by imaginary CAAs? Maybe the same could issue virtual AOCs. Who has the time for this? As P123 has already mentioned even those of us who are really working in these positions are still learning. The unexpected happens all the time, and unless you have direct experience of being up the polluted tributary without propulsion I fail to see any benefit of a virtual dispatch or OCC. I would not hire any dispatcher whose CV mentioned only virtual experiences. I wish you luck trying to program the sim, if you can model this then you're well on the way to being employable.
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Slightly off topic but still somewhat related...
I understand that a professor in Swinburn Uni in Australia Dr.Peter Bruce is working on an airline operations control simulator. I think that's an interesting idea that could be very useful for airlines especially when training new hires.
You don't really need a simulator to simulate flight dispatch as any real flight planning system can be treated as one as long as you don't file anything live in the ATC system. You don't need real weather updates as any decent instructor can create a scenario far worse than most you will encounter in real life
An ops control sim - now that's something I'd like to see.
I understand that a professor in Swinburn Uni in Australia Dr.Peter Bruce is working on an airline operations control simulator. I think that's an interesting idea that could be very useful for airlines especially when training new hires.
You don't really need a simulator to simulate flight dispatch as any real flight planning system can be treated as one as long as you don't file anything live in the ATC system. You don't need real weather updates as any decent instructor can create a scenario far worse than most you will encounter in real life
An ops control sim - now that's something I'd like to see.
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More than a year since I shared my idea, I have managed to generate a flight plan SITA format using a program called PFPX for FSX.
It can do more than what some airlines can afford and it's about 160 USD commercial but simulation purposes only.... Not for long I can guarantee you.... When this string started this software did not exist and now the author is getting 90USD per licence......non commercial.
I also managed to recreate a template Identical to SiTA Graphlite system format which the airline I work for uses.
I can send winds aloft straight to the 777 PMDG which is what ACARs does in real life. (some airlines are yet to use this by the way)
It is capable of doing a re-planning and ETOPS, with regards to fuel planning you can adopt even your CAAs fuel policy.... To the last kg of fuel. ICAO/FAA or EU ops
Brilliant tools....
In my flying career, I have seen a lot of innovations and this one in my opinion will not be difficult at all but very profitable.
FlightSimSoft.com
http://simbrief.com/
Just to name a few..... The second one is free and the performance databases are so accurate.
Those who feel they can add value, kindly PM and let's pick up from where we left.
Some kind of interface for virtual pilots to use this existing system to collect a PDF computer flight plan and take off performance by a few clicks..... Need some insight on that.
Kind regards
It can do more than what some airlines can afford and it's about 160 USD commercial but simulation purposes only.... Not for long I can guarantee you.... When this string started this software did not exist and now the author is getting 90USD per licence......non commercial.
I also managed to recreate a template Identical to SiTA Graphlite system format which the airline I work for uses.
I can send winds aloft straight to the 777 PMDG which is what ACARs does in real life. (some airlines are yet to use this by the way)
It is capable of doing a re-planning and ETOPS, with regards to fuel planning you can adopt even your CAAs fuel policy.... To the last kg of fuel. ICAO/FAA or EU ops
Brilliant tools....
In my flying career, I have seen a lot of innovations and this one in my opinion will not be difficult at all but very profitable.
FlightSimSoft.com
http://simbrief.com/
Just to name a few..... The second one is free and the performance databases are so accurate.
Those who feel they can add value, kindly PM and let's pick up from where we left.
Some kind of interface for virtual pilots to use this existing system to collect a PDF computer flight plan and take off performance by a few clicks..... Need some insight on that.
Kind regards