Rear facing PAX seat
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Rear facing PAX seat
Hi all
I flew to Roma in Queensland this week on Qantas link flight and noticed that the rear facing PAX seats have just a lap belt, but the flight attendant has a four point harness. Should it not be the same for PAX?
I flew to Roma in Queensland this week on Qantas link flight and noticed that the rear facing PAX seats have just a lap belt, but the flight attendant has a four point harness. Should it not be the same for PAX?
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Treg,
All pax seats have only lap belts, all crew seats have 4 point harnesses.
Are you suggesting that all pax seats whether forward-facing or rear-facing should have 4 point harnesses or are you suggesting that there is something about rear-facing seats that means they should have a different type of seat belt to the forward facing seats?
If the latter can you tell us what that something is?
All pax seats have only lap belts, all crew seats have 4 point harnesses.
Are you suggesting that all pax seats whether forward-facing or rear-facing should have 4 point harnesses or are you suggesting that there is something about rear-facing seats that means they should have a different type of seat belt to the forward facing seats?
If the latter can you tell us what that something is?
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Thanks obira,
I was seated in a forward facing seat opposite the rear facing seat. There was limited space between myself and the man sitting opposite me, meaning that if we both bent forward we would bump heads. Therefore I thought that a four point harness for the rear facing seat would be beneficial to both of us in the event of an accident on takeoff or or landing.
Is this not considered in flight safety matters?
I was seated in a forward facing seat opposite the rear facing seat. There was limited space between myself and the man sitting opposite me, meaning that if we both bent forward we would bump heads. Therefore I thought that a four point harness for the rear facing seat would be beneficial to both of us in the event of an accident on takeoff or or landing.
Is this not considered in flight safety matters?
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Hi Treg,
In the event of an accident on takeoff or landing the forward momentum of the aircraft would mean that if there were a sudden deceleration the person in the rear facing seat would feel their body 'pushed' into the back of their seat while the person in the forward facing seat would feel their body 'pushed' forward away from their seat. That is why the brace position is different for rear-facing seats; you should brace by pushing your body (and head) into the seatback as this would minimise the impact with the seat.
For the heads of the forward-facing and rear-facing pax to collide it would mean that the forces operating on them would need to be acting in opposite directions simultaneously.
The likely forward momentum in any accident on take-off and landing would be an argument for forward-facing seats to have better seatbelts/harnesses than the rear-facing ones.
Regards
obira
In the event of an accident on takeoff or landing the forward momentum of the aircraft would mean that if there were a sudden deceleration the person in the rear facing seat would feel their body 'pushed' into the back of their seat while the person in the forward facing seat would feel their body 'pushed' forward away from their seat. That is why the brace position is different for rear-facing seats; you should brace by pushing your body (and head) into the seatback as this would minimise the impact with the seat.
For the heads of the forward-facing and rear-facing pax to collide it would mean that the forces operating on them would need to be acting in opposite directions simultaneously.
The likely forward momentum in any accident on take-off and landing would be an argument for forward-facing seats to have better seatbelts/harnesses than the rear-facing ones.
Regards
obira
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So there is no situation where you would foresee impact forces causing these two occupants to collide due to movement away from the vertical braced position?
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I can't see that the likelihood of contact between a rear-facing passenger and a forward-facing passenger is any greater than that between two passengers side by side or between a forward-facing passenger and the seat in front of them.
Also the forward-facing passenger is not in a vertical brace position.
Also the forward-facing passenger is not in a vertical brace position.
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Safety first ?
It would be far better for all the seats in the cabin to be aft facing, it has been proven to be far safer than forward facing seats, unfortunately aft facing seats are considered to be commercially unexeptable due to passenger expectations.
The only aircraft I have seen with all the passenger seats facing aft are military, the passengers in these don't get a say in how they are seated !
The only aircraft I have seen with all the passenger seats facing aft are military, the passengers in these don't get a say in how they are seated !
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Most humans don't do well with their backs toward the direction of travel- my Doc says it has something to do with one's sense of balance fighting the psychological 'need to see where you're going' even if you can't see anything.
For a very "interesting" experience, have a trusted friend take you for a slow, gentle ride on their motorcycle with you sitting backwards behind them. No matter how much riding experience you have yourself and no matter how much you trust them, it's a strangely terrifying feeling evn though you know you can't be much harmed falling off at just a few MPH and that your friend wouldn't ever let that happen. You can get used to it but you never start off that way.
For a very "interesting" experience, have a trusted friend take you for a slow, gentle ride on their motorcycle with you sitting backwards behind them. No matter how much riding experience you have yourself and no matter how much you trust them, it's a strangely terrifying feeling evn though you know you can't be much harmed falling off at just a few MPH and that your friend wouldn't ever let that happen. You can get used to it but you never start off that way.
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My 2c,
While four point harnesses are always going to be safer than a lap belt, the reality of getting the average passenger to correctly use a four point harness is too depressing to dwell upon.
I've seen passengers have trouble correctly using a normal lap belt.
Simultaneously, unlikely.
The most likely impact force will cause a rapid deceleration. This will make the rearward facing passengers move further into their seats, and away from the forward facing passengers (who are flung forward). Considering that in a Dash-8 there is more room between the facing passengers than there is between the passengers in the forward facing seats and the seats in front of them, then you're still "better off" in the club configuration, IMHO.
I can envisage scenarios where passengers could collide. IMHO, they would most likely come under the heading of "unsurvivable" impacts, and the choice of either lap belt or four point harness would probably be moot.
DIVOSH!
While four point harnesses are always going to be safer than a lap belt, the reality of getting the average passenger to correctly use a four point harness is too depressing to dwell upon.
I've seen passengers have trouble correctly using a normal lap belt.
So there is no situation where you would foresee impact forces causing these two occupants to collide due to movement away from the vertical braced position?
The most likely impact force will cause a rapid deceleration. This will make the rearward facing passengers move further into their seats, and away from the forward facing passengers (who are flung forward). Considering that in a Dash-8 there is more room between the facing passengers than there is between the passengers in the forward facing seats and the seats in front of them, then you're still "better off" in the club configuration, IMHO.
So there is no situation where you would foresee impact forces causing these two occupants to collide due to movement away from the vertical braced position?
DIVOSH!
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Crew seats on the Dash-8 have 4 point restraints due to the fact that there are no armrests on either side, these prevent the body from moving off the seat sideways in turbulence/impact....the 2 x rear facing seats do have armrests, keeping the pax in the seat.
Many F class pax seats have them due to the width of the seats (armrests, if any don't contain the pax fully).
Many F class pax seats have them due to the width of the seats (armrests, if any don't contain the pax fully).
Re any cabin seats -
You'd need inertia reels for diagonal or four-point harnesses re passenger comfort - no one wants to be trussed up for an eight hour flight.
They'd be unsuitable seats for small children too because of buckle and strap positions. I'd imagine the seat back and recline mechanism would have to be strengthened to take deceleration loads because of the harness running up the back of them.
More weight, maintenance and cost.
You'd need inertia reels for diagonal or four-point harnesses re passenger comfort - no one wants to be trussed up for an eight hour flight.
They'd be unsuitable seats for small children too because of buckle and strap positions. I'd imagine the seat back and recline mechanism would have to be strengthened to take deceleration loads because of the harness running up the back of them.More weight, maintenance and cost.
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BA 747, Business class has alternate forward and rear facing "capsules" in one we used in Oct last Moscow-LHR. Window seats face backwards???? Keep an eye on the wing??
I have used rear facing in a Seneca "club" seating, took a lot of getting used to, quite queer for a while.
SAI cabin crew ladies only 4 points as the kubaya "prevents" point 5 for modesty reasons.
We had them in the cockpit for t/o and landing before the 310 was terminated, so where were they going to end up if we suddenly stopped. No we could not have a fella as they were needed for the Pax???
Logic is sometimes lost to stupidity!!
I have used rear facing in a Seneca "club" seating, took a lot of getting used to, quite queer for a while.
SAI cabin crew ladies only 4 points as the kubaya "prevents" point 5 for modesty reasons.
We had them in the cockpit for t/o and landing before the 310 was terminated, so where were they going to end up if we suddenly stopped. No we could not have a fella as they were needed for the Pax???
Logic is sometimes lost to stupidity!!
