British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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On VCC, out of hundreds of volunteers, it is not surprising that some will find the role (and it is a temporary one) just is not for them or do not work well in the team environment.
I'm sure if you put long standing flight and cabin crew into an office environment every day for five days a week, many would find the adjustment very difficult.
As for LGW short-haul, something may happen (possibly after the Iberia merger) but I will believe the disposal of the entire operation when I see it. I think the company will want to retain the ability to move short haul routes between LGW and LHR.
I'm sure if you put long standing flight and cabin crew into an office environment every day for five days a week, many would find the adjustment very difficult.
As for LGW short-haul, something may happen (possibly after the Iberia merger) but I will believe the disposal of the entire operation when I see it. I think the company will want to retain the ability to move short haul routes between LGW and LHR.
DeThirdDefect
I am not convinced that the text of that posting is a from a 'manager' at all. It has all the hallmarks of being one of the many BASSA-initiated fairy tales that they try to pass off as coming from supporters of BASSA. Even if it does partially sabotage HV's claims, I firmly believe it is bogus.
I am not convinced that the text of that posting is a from a 'manager' at all. It has all the hallmarks of being one of the many BASSA-initiated fairy tales that they try to pass off as coming from supporters of BASSA. Even if it does partially sabotage HV's claims, I firmly believe it is bogus.
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For the benefit of the large number of cabin crew who worked during the strike, yet still surprisingly remain members of BASSA, here is an outline of the BASSA mistakes, and what the Professional Cabin Crew Council (PCCC) would have done differently:
a. Negotiations.
BASSA refused to attend meetings, watch presentations etc. The PCCC would have sat through the presentations, etc and negotiated. That's what a union is PAID by its members to do.
b. Imposition
BASSA went on strike about one crew member off an aircraft. Crew did not mind. The PCCC would have agreed the one crew member off in exchange for tough negotiations about Mixed Fleet, thereby improving our job security.
c. Strike Action
Calling a strike for the 12 days of Xmas was a fatal error that has cost us all dearly - the general public, and other BA employees now hate us. The PCCC simply wouldn't have done it.
d. Listening
BASSA should have listened to what the members want. They should not name/shame people on their forum who post a different view. The PCCC would conduct proper, legitimate ballots to establish the general consensus. A show of hands at Kempton Park, given that our community is dispersed around the world, is not a democratic or fair way to do it.
Along with this are all the other errors, as has been proven through the various court cases.
Any cabin crew member who came to work during the strike is throwing good money after bad by remaining in BASSA. They won't represent you if you need their help, so you are wasting your money. Call Payservices (the number is on the back of cabin crew news) and cancel it today!
If every crew member who came to work during the strike had now resigned from BASSA/Unite, the Union would probably be defunct. Do it now!
a. Negotiations.
BASSA refused to attend meetings, watch presentations etc. The PCCC would have sat through the presentations, etc and negotiated. That's what a union is PAID by its members to do.
b. Imposition
BASSA went on strike about one crew member off an aircraft. Crew did not mind. The PCCC would have agreed the one crew member off in exchange for tough negotiations about Mixed Fleet, thereby improving our job security.
c. Strike Action
Calling a strike for the 12 days of Xmas was a fatal error that has cost us all dearly - the general public, and other BA employees now hate us. The PCCC simply wouldn't have done it.
d. Listening
BASSA should have listened to what the members want. They should not name/shame people on their forum who post a different view. The PCCC would conduct proper, legitimate ballots to establish the general consensus. A show of hands at Kempton Park, given that our community is dispersed around the world, is not a democratic or fair way to do it.
Along with this are all the other errors, as has been proven through the various court cases.
Any cabin crew member who came to work during the strike is throwing good money after bad by remaining in BASSA. They won't represent you if you need their help, so you are wasting your money. Call Payservices (the number is on the back of cabin crew news) and cancel it today!
If every crew member who came to work during the strike had now resigned from BASSA/Unite, the Union would probably be defunct. Do it now!
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acceptance of last offer
Hello
Today I received a letter from BA, signed by BF telling me that because I accepted the last pay deal from BA 'Way Forward Agreement' that I am now covered by the pay deal and the assurances within the agreement. This comes into force from November 2010. This, I have to say is a big relief to me as , lets face it the pay deal is not going to get better.
Then I had a thought: what is going to happen to our other colleagues in UNITE? Is staying on the contract that they have going to be an option come November? One thing I thought might happen is that they will continue to work to their old EF agreement, but because of diminishing work, not be eligible for the top-up payment. Or perhaps BA will give 90 days notice on the existing contracts on WW and EF (SOSR?) and force everyone to sign up to the Way Forward Agreement.
In the letter, it says that over 1,100 crew signed the agreement and that this equates to @95% of non-union crew members.
And as for Hector Vector's argument that:
That isn't going to happen, well not to me or anyone else who signed up to the offer. Or at least not for the next two years , and lets face it who knows what will happen in two years.
If I was in UNITE, and had not gone on strike, I would be thinking very carefully about remaining a member in this union as it does not appear they have done a very good deal at representing their members in this whole sorry affair. And that is even before you consider that DH might name and shame you for not going on strike on the BASSA forum.
I am so relieved to be out of this union, and in the future if anyone says 'oh but BASSA got that agreement for us' I shall be able to say 'oh no no they did not, my agreement was secured with BA'.
AD
Today I received a letter from BA, signed by BF telling me that because I accepted the last pay deal from BA 'Way Forward Agreement' that I am now covered by the pay deal and the assurances within the agreement. This comes into force from November 2010. This, I have to say is a big relief to me as , lets face it the pay deal is not going to get better.
Then I had a thought: what is going to happen to our other colleagues in UNITE? Is staying on the contract that they have going to be an option come November? One thing I thought might happen is that they will continue to work to their old EF agreement, but because of diminishing work, not be eligible for the top-up payment. Or perhaps BA will give 90 days notice on the existing contracts on WW and EF (SOSR?) and force everyone to sign up to the Way Forward Agreement.
In the letter, it says that over 1,100 crew signed the agreement and that this equates to @95% of non-union crew members.
And as for Hector Vector's argument that:
Perhaps Bridchen you might like to explain what you would do if your new contract pops onto your doormat next week?
If I was in UNITE, and had not gone on strike, I would be thinking very carefully about remaining a member in this union as it does not appear they have done a very good deal at representing their members in this whole sorry affair. And that is even before you consider that DH might name and shame you for not going on strike on the BASSA forum.
I am so relieved to be out of this union, and in the future if anyone says 'oh but BASSA got that agreement for us' I shall be able to say 'oh no no they did not, my agreement was secured with BA'.
AD
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Thanks AD
What concerns me is will the CC who were BASSA members on 25th June but backed BA and came to work and have now left BASSA get the chance to accept the latest offer?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
A lot of CC stayed in BASSA so they could vote for BA and had no warning from BA that if they remained in BASSA they would not be eligable for any offers from BA.
Thank you
What concerns me is will the CC who were BASSA members on 25th June but backed BA and came to work and have now left BASSA get the chance to accept the latest offer?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
A lot of CC stayed in BASSA so they could vote for BA and had no warning from BA that if they remained in BASSA they would not be eligable for any offers from BA.
Thank you
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What concerns me is will the CC who were BASSA members on 25th June but backed BA and came to work and have now left BASSA get the chance to accept the latest offer?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
My hope is that the next step will be to put the offer forward to anyone who wants it. Because, lets face it BASSA are not going to recommend this to their members.
If I were you, I would email BF and ask him directly. Then you shall have an answer one way or the other.
On another forum, it has been mentioned that TW was on a BA flight in the last few days and let it be known that another strike ballot is unlikely, and that BASSA are fighting a losing battle. Oh dear.
AD
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sttropez
What concerns me is will the CC who were BASSA members on 25th June but backed BA and came to work and have now left BASSA get the chance to accept the latest offer?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
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I sincerely hope that BA change their mind
...and union members are bound by a collective agreement, which as sub paying members they (employees) in turn have agreed to pass the choice to their union to accept offers or not.
Bed made..! Sorry, it's a grim situation I know and I do feel for those that remained in just to vote no, but there you go.
Perhaps it's time to leave now before the same thing happens again?
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Originally Posted by StTropez
What concerns me is will the CC who were BASSA members on 25th June but backed BA and came to work and have now left BASSA get the chance to accept the latest offer?
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
A lot of CC stayed in BASSA so they could vote for BA and had no warning from BA that if they remained in BASSA they would not be eligable for any offers from BA.
Or will they be treated in the same way as the strikers?
A lot of CC stayed in BASSA so they could vote for BA and had no warning from BA that if they remained in BASSA they would not be eligable for any offers from BA.
I seem to remember getting plenty of notice from BA that I'd be given the opportunity to vote IF I wasn't a member of the union.
I mean you absolutely no disrespect, StTropez, but it's very easy to claim support for BA now that there's no doubt in anyone's mind (well, bar a few hundred crew, perhaps) that the war is over than that BA has emerged victorious.
But for those of us who backed BA from the very start, to see the offer extended to those who went out on strike and only opened their eyes after causing untold damage to the reputation of the airline and after it became clear that there was no way Bassa would win, seems somewhat unfair.
Just as the strikers delighted in saying that non-strikers shouldn't be allowed to benefit from the deal secured as a result of the strikes, it works both ways. Why should those who did strike be allowed to enjoy the benefits secured by those who didn't?!
It's harsh and for that I apologise, but many of us have gone through months of hell in our quest to back BA.
Additionally, there was NEVER any way that the ballot return would be anti-Bassa. No way. Bassa has built itself up as an unbeatable organisation at the polls - its members will, largely, always vote in the union's favour. So I don't REALLY buy the "stayed in to vote no" thing.
Further, how do we know who ACTUALLY voted no? Unite sure as hell won't tell us.
"Strike row BA crew in dirty demo"
Refers to incidents a while back now, but highlights such hopelessly juvenile behaviour by the BASSA cultists. 
British Airways cabin crew in vandalised a plane on Sydney-to-London flight, it has been claimed | The Sun |News
The Sun
Strike row BA crew in dirty demo
Thursday, 12 August 2010
CABIN crew on a British Airways plane poured milk over beds and stuck trolley doors shut with GLUE after flying into a rage with bosses, it was claimed last night.
The furious staff also disconnected ovens and blocked sinks with bags of waste, sources say.
The dirty demo happened at the height of the strikes that rocked the airline in the middle of June.
The crew, working on a Sydney-to-London flight, went on the rampage after they found out they were being relieved by "scabs" in Bangkok.
An insider said: "They rendered the crew rest area useless by pouring milk over the bunks, blocking sinks and stuffing coffee pots full of foul liquid."
The source added: "One of the people involved was suspended by post on Tuesday."
BA last night refused to comment on the Sydney Sabotage.
But unions are angry that they have suspended key member Nicky Marcus. She represented the cabin crew who were hauled before bosses. Ms Marcus was also prominent on picket lines at Heathrow.
BA would only say she was suspended for "interfering in the employment relationship between British Airways and its employees".
The airline and unions have still not agreed changes to working practices after more than 18 months of talks.
Strike row BA crew in dirty demo
Thursday, 12 August 2010
CABIN crew on a British Airways plane poured milk over beds and stuck trolley doors shut with GLUE after flying into a rage with bosses, it was claimed last night.
The furious staff also disconnected ovens and blocked sinks with bags of waste, sources say.
The dirty demo happened at the height of the strikes that rocked the airline in the middle of June.
The crew, working on a Sydney-to-London flight, went on the rampage after they found out they were being relieved by "scabs" in Bangkok.
An insider said: "They rendered the crew rest area useless by pouring milk over the bunks, blocking sinks and stuffing coffee pots full of foul liquid."
The source added: "One of the people involved was suspended by post on Tuesday."
BA last night refused to comment on the Sydney Sabotage.
But unions are angry that they have suspended key member Nicky Marcus. She represented the cabin crew who were hauled before bosses. Ms Marcus was also prominent on picket lines at Heathrow.
BA would only say she was suspended for "interfering in the employment relationship between British Airways and its employees".
The airline and unions have still not agreed changes to working practices after more than 18 months of talks.
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Sun article
I have heard rumblings of this for a while... oxygen bottles emptied in the crew rest area etc etc...
To the crew who did this.. proud of yourselves are you?
Eddy:
I also have the same reservations as you reference people staying in the union - I keep hearing "I am only staying in the union so if I get into trouble at work, BASSA are duty bound to protect me". Yes they are duty bound to protect you, but whether they bother much providing you with a good defence at the time remains to be seen.
The meeting at Kempton racetrack (early Sep) should be interesting. Obviously I am not going!... but if I was a member who went on strike and had no staff travel, I would be there asking hard questions of my reps, one of which should be:
"Where is my staff travel, you promised it would be reinstated in 5 minutes?"
If this question did get asked I will wager that BASSA will try to blame the strikebreakers or sc*%s.... as they like to call us.
To the crew who did this.. proud of yourselves are you?
Eddy:
I also have the same reservations as you reference people staying in the union - I keep hearing "I am only staying in the union so if I get into trouble at work, BASSA are duty bound to protect me". Yes they are duty bound to protect you, but whether they bother much providing you with a good defence at the time remains to be seen.
The meeting at Kempton racetrack (early Sep) should be interesting. Obviously I am not going!... but if I was a member who went on strike and had no staff travel, I would be there asking hard questions of my reps, one of which should be:
"Where is my staff travel, you promised it would be reinstated in 5 minutes?"
If this question did get asked I will wager that BASSA will try to blame the strikebreakers or sc*%s.... as they like to call us.
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Hi Eddy
Don't know how to do quotes but here goes:
My concern is for those who 'Backed BA' and did NOT go on strike.
Is that right?
I seem to remember getting plenty of notice from BA that I'd be given the opportunity to vote IF I wasn't a member of the union.
On 25th June Bill sent out:
Individual and collective offer (Friday, July 09, 2010) appeared on the intranet.
What notice did you get prior to 25th June 'that I'd be given the opportunity to vote IF I wasn't a member of the union'?
I mean you absolutely no disrespect, StTropez, but it's very easy to claim support for BA now that there's no doubt in anyone's mind (well, bar a few hundred crew, perhaps) that the war is over than that BA has emerged victorious.
But for those of us who backed BA from the very start, to see the offer extended to those who went out on strike and only opened their eyes after causing untold damage to the reputation of the airline and after it became clear that there was no way Bassa would win, seems somewhat unfair.
I take your point Eddy, but I repeat my concern is for those who 'Backed BA' and did NOT go on strike, but had not resigned from BASSA on 25th June.
sttropez
Don't know how to do quotes but here goes:
My concern is for those who 'Backed BA' and did NOT go on strike.
Is that right?
I seem to remember getting plenty of notice from BA that I'd be given the opportunity to vote IF I wasn't a member of the union.
On 25th June Bill sent out:
M
y offer to you - Heathrow
If you are not a member of the union, I am offering you the opportunity to accept the assurances outlined in this letter.
On 9th July the:
On 9th July the:
Individual and collective offer (Friday, July 09, 2010) appeared on the intranet.
What notice did you get prior to 25th June 'that I'd be given the opportunity to vote IF I wasn't a member of the union'?
I mean you absolutely no disrespect, StTropez, but it's very easy to claim support for BA now that there's no doubt in anyone's mind (well, bar a few hundred crew, perhaps) that the war is over than that BA has emerged victorious.
But for those of us who backed BA from the very start, to see the offer extended to those who went out on strike and only opened their eyes after causing untold damage to the reputation of the airline and after it became clear that there was no way Bassa would win, seems somewhat unfair.
I take your point Eddy, but I repeat my concern is for those who 'Backed BA' and did NOT go on strike, but had not resigned from BASSA on 25th June.
sttropez
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Eddy, I am really suprised at what you have said to St Tropez.
Thousands of crew voted NO to BASSA's first ballot and lots voted YES to the offer. Lots did stay in the union in the hope that more people would vote YES to the offer and the union would accept the companies proposal.
Why should crew who worked through the strike, like you, and voted against IA and voted YES to the offer, be penalised.
This offer was not a reward for the select few who happened to have already left the union before 25th June like me and you, it was a serious offer that BF wanted all crew to have it was not a reward to you..
I really don't think you need to worry St.Tropez because I think the union will eventually come to it's senses and accept the offer on your
behalf.
However if I were you I would leave the union now ( you can always rejoin again in the future) just in case he makes the offer again and then you would be in a position to sign it then.
Thousands of crew voted NO to BASSA's first ballot and lots voted YES to the offer. Lots did stay in the union in the hope that more people would vote YES to the offer and the union would accept the companies proposal.
Why should crew who worked through the strike, like you, and voted against IA and voted YES to the offer, be penalised.
This offer was not a reward for the select few who happened to have already left the union before 25th June like me and you, it was a serious offer that BF wanted all crew to have it was not a reward to you..
I really don't think you need to worry St.Tropez because I think the union will eventually come to it's senses and accept the offer on your
behalf.
However if I were you I would leave the union now ( you can always rejoin again in the future) just in case he makes the offer again and then you would be in a position to sign it then.
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Eddy, I am really suprised at what you have said to St Tropez.
Thousands of crew voted NO to BASSA's first ballot and lots voted YES to the offer. Lots did stay in the union in the hope that more people would vote YES to the offer and the union would accept the companies proposal.
The union was ALWAYS going to win the ballot. Always. A far stronger show of defiance by crew would be a mass exodus from Bassa's membership register than a large no-vote when it came to accepting a deal.
Like Atlas said, a LOT of crew wanted the best of both worlds. They wanted to be able to enjoy the "benefits" of having not been a striker, but also wanted to enjoy the protection that being a full union member normally offers.
You're right that thousands stayed in the union to vote no, but what seems better/stronger for a union? A result seeing a large, but not nearly large enough, "no" vote OR a large "yes" vote of the members remaining following 3,000 resignations in one month? What makes for a better headline!?
Why should crew who worked through the strike, like you, and voted against IA and voted YES to the offer, be penalised.
This offer was not a reward for the select few who happened to have already left the union before 25th June like me and you, it was a serious offer that BF wanted all crew to have it was not a reward to you..
What this was was a sensible decision on the part of the company to keep happy those of its crew who had elected to back the airline during the industrial action. It wasn't a reward at all - it was merely the company offering crew not involved in the IA a chance to sign up to a deal to get rid of the uncertainty over just how bad an offer a union to which they don't belong would ultimately secure for them.
In terms of those who stayed in the union to vote "no" but still want the chance to accept the deal extended to non-union members, that's the danger of union membership hun. Sad to say. You take what the union agrees, or you leave. That's how unions are meant to work. Those who wanted to stay in the union to vote yes should have been able to see from miles off that the "yes" would never, ever win.
But I don't see it as a punishment. I see it as these members getting what their union has agreed for them, or atleast not getting what the union has rejected.
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By the way, a manager I know recently had to deal with a disciplinary case involving a Bassa member who had worked during the strikes.....
Bassa refused to offer protection when called upon for it.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
Bassa refused to offer protection when called upon for it.
You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
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Bassa refused to offer protection when called upon for it.
A union can offer representation, not protection. No union member employee enjoyes more protection than a non-member employee, the employment law (which is where the protection comes from) is the same for both.
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Read eddy's comments again. If true (and I'm not saying it isn't), it seems that BASSA failed to provide representation in a disiplinary because the member worked during the strike.
Last edited by Copenhagen; 12th Aug 2010 at 19:32. Reason: poor english
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Well Eddy, hindsight is a great thing.
Alot of people who were in the union also worked during the strike and I personally don't want any of them to be diadvantaged by not being able to take advantage of the offer. Only 5000 went on strike remember.
BA is a unionised company and they have actively encouraged membership in the past. At no time has BF told people to leave the union, firstly he would not be allowed to and secondly he actually wants the union to represent the majority of people's views. Having said that of course this union has not actually done that, they don't seem interested in finding out the views of their membership but thats not the members fault and particularily thoes that voted NO to striking and YES to the offer.
I personally hope that the union will eventually see sense but failing that I hope that anyone that wanted to accept the offer can and is not penalised because they did not leave the union. I can't understand why anyone would think any differently.
Alot of people who were in the union also worked during the strike and I personally don't want any of them to be diadvantaged by not being able to take advantage of the offer. Only 5000 went on strike remember.
BA is a unionised company and they have actively encouraged membership in the past. At no time has BF told people to leave the union, firstly he would not be allowed to and secondly he actually wants the union to represent the majority of people's views. Having said that of course this union has not actually done that, they don't seem interested in finding out the views of their membership but thats not the members fault and particularily thoes that voted NO to striking and YES to the offer.
I personally hope that the union will eventually see sense but failing that I hope that anyone that wanted to accept the offer can and is not penalised because they did not leave the union. I can't understand why anyone would think any differently.
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Betty, I'm kinda torn. There are people like yourself - good people who acted with the best of intentions - who will suffer as a result of the company's (current) lack of willing to extend this offer to Union members. I wouldn't have a problem with the offer being opened up to you. By the sounds of things - correct me if I'm wrong here - you've actually realised that the union is leading you down a long path over a long cliff, that the company isn't the demon Bassa would like you to believe and that the current offer is a good one (though IMHO not as good as those we've seen in the past).
CHANGE OF MINDSET HALF WAY THROUGH >>>>>
Actually, no. If you've left the union, you should be allowed to take this deal. The company should open up this offer in My Opportunities and give people one month to accept it - and they must NOT be a member of the union by the end of those 30 days.
I respect those who now support our union. I respect those who supported the company and worked. I do not respect those who did both (and there are a lot of them, sadly).
CHANGE OF MINDSET HALF WAY THROUGH >>>>>
Actually, no. If you've left the union, you should be allowed to take this deal. The company should open up this offer in My Opportunities and give people one month to accept it - and they must NOT be a member of the union by the end of those 30 days.
I respect those who now support our union. I respect those who supported the company and worked. I do not respect those who did both (and there are a lot of them, sadly).