British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Yes, I am beginning to wonder if some of you are confusing the Grievance procedure, which is a formal procedure, with someone complaining about someone else's behavior which is not the same at all.
Taking a grievance out against the company is not the same as reporting another persons behaviour towards you.
Taking a grievance out against the company is not the same as reporting another persons behaviour towards you.
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BettyGirl
They have been led into a completely useless strike, that has lost them their staff travel, lost them some pay, actually made the agreements for all of us worse and unfortunately caused MF to be set up with the worst possible agreement I have ever seen. e.g. 1 weeks notice and stood down from flying duties on NO PAY if BA becomes over crewed!! Thanks Bassa.
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BettyGirl
Yes, I am beginning to wonder if some of you are confusing the Grievance procedure, which is a formal procedure, with someone complaining about someone else's behavior which is not the same at all.
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No 15,
Yes I think we both disagree on that and that is because you chose to strike and I chose not to.
I don't agree that the outcome of all of us striking would have altered Mr. Walsh's resolve. He would have just ridden it out like he had to, a few weeks later, during the volcanic ash.
All that the VCC's and working crew did was to protect the airline from making an even bigger loss than it would have otherwise.
Bassa lost the chance for a better agreement the day it announced the 12 days of Christmas strike. Up until that point it had a bargaining tool and it had promised all the crew, that a show of strength would bring BA to the table to negotiate and then promptly ruined it, by calling an immediate strike for 7 days later.
However I realise that you won't see that.
P.S. We do agree on some things tho!! Which is promising!!
Yes I think we both disagree on that and that is because you chose to strike and I chose not to.
I don't agree that the outcome of all of us striking would have altered Mr. Walsh's resolve. He would have just ridden it out like he had to, a few weeks later, during the volcanic ash.
All that the VCC's and working crew did was to protect the airline from making an even bigger loss than it would have otherwise.
Bassa lost the chance for a better agreement the day it announced the 12 days of Christmas strike. Up until that point it had a bargaining tool and it had promised all the crew, that a show of strength would bring BA to the table to negotiate and then promptly ruined it, by calling an immediate strike for 7 days later.
However I realise that you won't see that.
P.S. We do agree on some things tho!! Which is promising!!
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it is my opinion that if there were no VCC's nor Cabin Crew crossing picket lines then this dispute would have been over months ago
If this dispute has achieved anything then it is that IFcE has finally been brought into line with the changes and sacrifices made by all other departments, albeit IFcE needed a single kick where as the other departments have rationalised slowly.
If you want support then choose your fights wisely. Screaming that IFcE 'IS' BA and that there should be no changes to the CC contracts, even if savings were promised and then to be paid back, in front of ALL other departments accepting cuts and change as they realised the urgency of the situation was never going to garner support.
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Betty girl
There is no problem with differing views and opinions
And of course they have also helped prolong the dispute
All that the VCC's and working crew did was to protect the airline from making an even bigger loss than it would have otherwise.
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no 15,
We only prolonged it if you feel that Mr. Walsh would have given in and I personally don't think he would have.
As I said in my opinion he would have ridden it out like he had to ride out the Volcano ash.
It does not matter if you striked or did not strike, none of us like what Mr. Walsh is doing and that even includes some volunteers but we differ in the way we feel the union should have handled it all.
The union had been, so called, negotiating for years about SCCMs on euro fleet and fixed links, new diversion agreements etc. and they could have avoided a lot of this if they has seriously given a little up but all I saw was them negotiating for long haul 767 work to come to E/F which was something I and many E/F crew did NOT want and to protect the CSDs from doing a decent days work on WW which was long overdue!!.
So that is why I went to work because I thought Mr. Walsh would never give in anyway and because I was totally fed up with the unions stance.
P.S. I do recognise that many CSDs did work hard on WW and supported all their crew with the service but we all know and have flown with the ones that just sat in their office and watched films.
We only prolonged it if you feel that Mr. Walsh would have given in and I personally don't think he would have.
As I said in my opinion he would have ridden it out like he had to ride out the Volcano ash.
It does not matter if you striked or did not strike, none of us like what Mr. Walsh is doing and that even includes some volunteers but we differ in the way we feel the union should have handled it all.
The union had been, so called, negotiating for years about SCCMs on euro fleet and fixed links, new diversion agreements etc. and they could have avoided a lot of this if they has seriously given a little up but all I saw was them negotiating for long haul 767 work to come to E/F which was something I and many E/F crew did NOT want and to protect the CSDs from doing a decent days work on WW which was long overdue!!.
So that is why I went to work because I thought Mr. Walsh would never give in anyway and because I was totally fed up with the unions stance.
P.S. I do recognise that many CSDs did work hard on WW and supported all their crew with the service but we all know and have flown with the ones that just sat in their office and watched films.
Last edited by Betty girl; 1st Oct 2010 at 15:57.
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Miss BA,
Sorry to hear about your experiences. On the day, my advice to you is to speak to the captain at the end of the flight.
EG903 refers to individual grievances not collective issues. Lots of EG903s are filed but how many get beyond the first meeting I can't comment on. Needless to say a lot of management time is spent on these individual grievances. A number of them are filed for ridiculous reasons and this needs to change. Managers I have spoken to in other businesses have to deal with the same problem. As I said before, the unions love it because the reps get to wear suits and feel important.
Sorry to hear about your experiences. On the day, my advice to you is to speak to the captain at the end of the flight.
EG903 refers to individual grievances not collective issues. Lots of EG903s are filed but how many get beyond the first meeting I can't comment on. Needless to say a lot of management time is spent on these individual grievances. A number of them are filed for ridiculous reasons and this needs to change. Managers I have spoken to in other businesses have to deal with the same problem. As I said before, the unions love it because the reps get to wear suits and feel important.
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Each instance usually resulted in 2-3 weeks off and then a 'claim' against the company. For years this went unchallenged by the company due to lack of time/effort by the local management. Result lots of overtime payments, lots of ****s where there were not enough staff, lots of claims with an average out of court settlelment of several £1000's.
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Betty Girl
I have no problems with anybody who chose to work as I am a great believer in democracy and ones right to choose.
The fact the we chose and were able to choose different paths is enshrined in the constitution of this country - I chose to participate in lawful industrial action and I was well aware of the consequences of the path I chose.
The fact the we chose and were able to choose different paths is enshrined in the constitution of this country - I chose to participate in lawful industrial action and I was well aware of the consequences of the path I chose.
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numberfifteenplease - since there is no longer a closed-shop system and 20%+ crew don't belong to a union, then at least 20% were always going to be crossing the picket line. The problem was BASSA underestimated the number of their own members who would come to work. I suspect that there was more of them than of non-union crew because that is how many either voted NO or abstained. Simple maths should have warned the reps that there wasn't the support for this dispute that they thought there should be. Bottom line is, more than 50% of crew didn't think losing a crew member or two off the total crew was worth walking out for.
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No 15,
It is good that we can have a debate on here and respect each others stance.
I do respect your right to strike and I do wish that Mr. Walsh had not removed your staff travel because I feel that has caused this to go on for much longer than it should have.
I feel that that action has contributed to making this a much more bitter strike and it has also damaged the unions throughout BA but then I expect that is what it was meant to do.
I know that we will get the usual mob saying 'they new what they were doing when they striked, they were warned' etc. etc. But I think that it has been done as a form of punishment and to deter any threats of strike action in the future from all areas of BA including Pilots.
I also know that the majority of non stricking crew would prefer the staff travel be given back.
Wish you well no. 15.
It is good that we can have a debate on here and respect each others stance.
I do respect your right to strike and I do wish that Mr. Walsh had not removed your staff travel because I feel that has caused this to go on for much longer than it should have.
I feel that that action has contributed to making this a much more bitter strike and it has also damaged the unions throughout BA but then I expect that is what it was meant to do.
I know that we will get the usual mob saying 'they new what they were doing when they striked, they were warned' etc. etc. But I think that it has been done as a form of punishment and to deter any threats of strike action in the future from all areas of BA including Pilots.
I also know that the majority of non stricking crew would prefer the staff travel be given back.
Wish you well no. 15.
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I'm with Betty girl on the staff travel issue and, fwiw most of the flight crew I've discussed it with on Eurofleet agree as well. The sooner it is restored in full to all the strikers, the sooner we can all move on from this sorry episode. If it is not returned it will be like a cancer in our community, ever present and damaging. Give it back, lets all move on!
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Betty Girl - thanks for your words
Ottergirl - I think many crew who for one reason or another chose to work did so for their own reasons, be it scared to lose ST or financial. What I find quite odd in all this though is that the BASSA membership still remains at circa 9,500 or so. I think we all agree a figure of somewhere between 5/7000 crew went on strike for at least one of the strike days. That means that between 2/4000 or so crew who didn't strike have remained in the Union - bizarre really because if that were me I would have cancelled my subscription and left the Union.
As for Staff Travel - I knew what had been threatened, however BA now have this hanging over every other employment group in the company for any future disputes. I still think there is some way to run in the whole ST saga.
Ottergirl - I think many crew who for one reason or another chose to work did so for their own reasons, be it scared to lose ST or financial. What I find quite odd in all this though is that the BASSA membership still remains at circa 9,500 or so. I think we all agree a figure of somewhere between 5/7000 crew went on strike for at least one of the strike days. That means that between 2/4000 or so crew who didn't strike have remained in the Union - bizarre really because if that were me I would have cancelled my subscription and left the Union.
As for Staff Travel - I knew what had been threatened, however BA now have this hanging over every other employment group in the company for any future disputes. I still think there is some way to run in the whole ST saga.
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I certainly hope their staff travel is not given back, unless they repay in full the revenue BA lost as a result of their foolish action.
PERHAPS the majority of non-striking crew want the strikers to get their staff travel back because they are worried they will be bullied whenever they try and use their staff travel. That in my opinion is no reason to give it back to the strikers (who are lucky they haven't been fired anyway!)
PERHAPS the majority of non-striking crew want the strikers to get their staff travel back because they are worried they will be bullied whenever they try and use their staff travel. That in my opinion is no reason to give it back to the strikers (who are lucky they haven't been fired anyway!)
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Ottergirl
I'm with Betty girl on the staff travel issue and, fwiw most of the flight crew I've discussed it with on Eurofleet agree as well. The sooner it is restored in full to all the strikers, the sooner we can all move on from this sorry episode. If it is not returned it will be like a cancer in our community, ever present and damaging. Give it back, lets all move on!
This dispute needs resolution sooner rather than later
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I have flown with many crew who came to work but are still members of BASSA. The reasons are generally either that they are scared not to be a member of a Union in case they need representing in a dispute with BA or because they still want to be able to vote NO whenever asked. There have also been one or two bullish along the "Why should I resign?" line. It makes it very hard to know who will be supporting any further call to IA.