British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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123Breath
I'm just curious, and this is a genuine question relevant to this debate...........how many of the BASSA reps involved in the negotiations during the demise of the region bases, were from those bases? I would be happy to be proved wrong in my suspicion that the answer is not many, or none.
So therefore - you are not correct and no parallels can be drawn.
which resulted in a large number of BASSA reps (ie. CSD's) having to work in the cabin.
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Ivorbiggun
I am not Duncan Holley but I do have the answer to one of your questions
I can categorically deny that 5% of BASSA subs go to the Branch Secretary - I suggest that you request a copy of the BASSA constitution as the amount received by the Branch Secretary is detailed in there
2. Can you confirm or deny that you accept the 5%/month of BASSA subs (approx £8k) that the Branch Secretary is entitled to receive? If not where do they go?
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ptc,
I'm pleased that you are excited but please take some friendly advice from an aging BA Purser. Your post may have been met with cries of "how refreshing" and no doubt you meant well but to me, it came across as cocky and actually really annoyed me. All that business with making sure the flight crew get the left over food, how disgusted you are with people criticising flight crew and that in your opinion, they should leave and how everyone on MF is going to be fun, fun, fun.
Really? You don't think that once the excitement has worn off, MF will have it's fair share of lazy, stroppy and willow the wisp crew just like every other fleet and probably every other airline? That things will occasionally go extremely pear shaped? You don't think that any cabin crew member for MF will ever criticise a pilot? Or that any pilot will ever criticise a crew member? Or that any of the MF crew will ever fall out with each other? I'm not even going to cover the left over food issues as you won't be making that decision!
You say you have been flying for many years and that you are realistic, yet your post suggests the exact opposite. Pride is great but a little humility also goes a long way.
That's something that has been puzzling me for a while. Why have BA decided to kit out the MF crew with hats? The hats have so far been kept for the prestige flights. When LCY-JFK came into being, apparently there was much discussion about whether the company could justify the cost of hats for the crew on this route. So why is that now suddenly not an issue when it comes to MF? AT least the LCY route can be argued to be a "prestigious route" of sorts. It seems to me like a deliberate move to provoke crew, with MF as the bait. BA have done their utmost to come across as fair and to protect those crew that support the company during this dispute and they have generally succeeded but this just doesn't fit. Sitting ducks comes to mind...
Oh...and one last thing.
Hot Wings,
Dolls?
I'm pleased that you are excited but please take some friendly advice from an aging BA Purser. Your post may have been met with cries of "how refreshing" and no doubt you meant well but to me, it came across as cocky and actually really annoyed me. All that business with making sure the flight crew get the left over food, how disgusted you are with people criticising flight crew and that in your opinion, they should leave and how everyone on MF is going to be fun, fun, fun.
Really? You don't think that once the excitement has worn off, MF will have it's fair share of lazy, stroppy and willow the wisp crew just like every other fleet and probably every other airline? That things will occasionally go extremely pear shaped? You don't think that any cabin crew member for MF will ever criticise a pilot? Or that any pilot will ever criticise a crew member? Or that any of the MF crew will ever fall out with each other? I'm not even going to cover the left over food issues as you won't be making that decision!
You say you have been flying for many years and that you are realistic, yet your post suggests the exact opposite. Pride is great but a little humility also goes a long way.
Lots of celebrating when the new dolls (with hats) arrive in the CRC.
Oh...and one last thing.
Hot Wings,
Dolls?
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Jetset Lady
As I said in my post I have flown for many years, and do not wear rose tinited glasses with regards to NF. I am however, and always will enjoy my job!
I have indeed flown with very nice crews, but again, of late this has not been the case sadly!
Of course there will always be the odd crew member, (cabin or flight crew), who are , lets say, not so nice to work with. What i am saying that everyone is part of one crew and should be treated equally ( flight crew inc). I standby what I said that if you can't be civil to all then you reallyshouldn't be doing the job! No matter how many years you have been flying!
As I said in my post I have flown for many years, and do not wear rose tinited glasses with regards to NF. I am however, and always will enjoy my job!
I have indeed flown with very nice crews, but again, of late this has not been the case sadly!
Of course there will always be the odd crew member, (cabin or flight crew), who are , lets say, not so nice to work with. What i am saying that everyone is part of one crew and should be treated equally ( flight crew inc). I standby what I said that if you can't be civil to all then you reallyshouldn't be doing the job! No matter how many years you have been flying!
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I don't know about 'dolls'....... the chap I flew with the other day was probably in his late 50's. He joined BA a couple of years ago to travel the world after a very impressive and distinguished career outside of the airline, and it was an absolute pleasure to have experienced his enthusiasm for his up-coming transfer to MF.......what a great guy (but definitely not a 'doll')
Looks like MF will have a great 'mix' of crew, hopefully all full of enthusiasm.
Looks like MF will have a great 'mix' of crew, hopefully all full of enthusiasm.
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Thanks numberfifteenplease
I appreciate your reply numberfifteenplease, and must assume that what you say is correct. As you seem to have some insight into the inner workings of BASSA you can probably answer your own question regarding the number/proportion of CSD's amongst the BASSA reps, as I can only go on what I've seen.........I've never met a rep who wasn't a CSD.
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123Breath
Hi - I genuinely do not know how many are CSD's, people often bandy around that they are 'all' CSD's - what I do know is that a number of the main committee are Pursers and even those who are CSD's again a number of them are on EF
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Ed Milliband
Did anyone see Red Eds speech yesterday?
With messers ,Woodley and Simpson the tweeter sat in prominent front row positions, their body language said it all to these remarks
(thanks to the Independent for quote)
BASSA die hards were hoping that Red Ed was going to be their next best friend, appears that's not the case, with UNITE insiders against giving BASSA a mandate to strike at christmas, I wonder where they are going to go now?
numberfifteenplease any comment?
With messers ,Woodley and Simpson the tweeter sat in prominent front row positions, their body language said it all to these remarks
Ed Miliband today made it clear he will not support "waves of irresponsible strikes" as he sought to damp down claims that he would reward unions that helped him to secure the Labour leadership. He told Labour's annual conference the party had to win public support and avoid alienating people and adding to the book of "historic union failures".
With senior union leaders sitting in the conference hall to hear his first keynote speech as leader, Mr Miliband said: "That is why I have no truck, and you should have no truck, with overblown rhetoric about waves of irresponsible strikes.
"The public won't support them. I won't support them and you shouldn't support them either."
With senior union leaders sitting in the conference hall to hear his first keynote speech as leader, Mr Miliband said: "That is why I have no truck, and you should have no truck, with overblown rhetoric about waves of irresponsible strikes.
"The public won't support them. I won't support them and you shouldn't support them either."
BASSA die hards were hoping that Red Ed was going to be their next best friend, appears that's not the case, with UNITE insiders against giving BASSA a mandate to strike at christmas, I wonder where they are going to go now?
numberfifteenplease any comment?
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Jetset lady, well said! I had the same reaction reading ptc's post. Along the lines of 'bloody cheek'. The flight crew on my flights are always treated as part of the crew and do pretty well for Club food as well. BF said on the BA forum that the hats are being funded by reducing the amount of uniform that MF crew are issued with i.e. one less skirt/trousers, etc.
ptc, I think your rose tinted glasses may start to mist up fairly quickly. While I accept that the MF crew will initially be happy to have a job and be excited to be starting a new career, human nature is always to look at what might have been and feel hard done by. I was training new crew in 1997 and there was much muttering about being second class citizens because they would be earning less than current crew inspite of us pointing out that they knew what their pay would be because they had signed that contract. The two temps I flew with last week were certainly aware of how little they were being paid compared to us. Envy can be deeply corrosive.
Hotwings - met four of the new CSM's in CRC last week, they were all guys from Eurofleet. Maybe 'dolls' in some views but I suspect not in yours! Your strange fantasies may have to be met elsewhere
ptc, I think your rose tinted glasses may start to mist up fairly quickly. While I accept that the MF crew will initially be happy to have a job and be excited to be starting a new career, human nature is always to look at what might have been and feel hard done by. I was training new crew in 1997 and there was much muttering about being second class citizens because they would be earning less than current crew inspite of us pointing out that they knew what their pay would be because they had signed that contract. The two temps I flew with last week were certainly aware of how little they were being paid compared to us. Envy can be deeply corrosive.
Hotwings - met four of the new CSM's in CRC last week, they were all guys from Eurofleet. Maybe 'dolls' in some views but I suspect not in yours! Your strange fantasies may have to be met elsewhere
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Re rep numbers. On the worldwide committee of 19 reps, 11 are CSDs 7 are pursers and 1 is main crew. A massive over representation of CSDs on the fleet most affected by imposition. The correct representation would be 2 CSDs 5 pursers and 12 main crew. Don't know EF numbers.
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Regarding rep numbers, the same happens in training, recruitment, promotions team, etc and can be easily explained. The individuals may start as main crew reps but access to the inner working of the company gives them the confidence and 'speak' to progress through the promotion interviews with relative ease. Unless a system is set up whereby promotion prevents you from staying as a rep then it will ever be so. With the reps, they also have to stand for re-election and CSD's are in a position to convince main crew that they know their stuff. I personally think it would be no bad thing for CSD's to have a separate NLP, a kind of union for managers on board.
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Ottergirl
I think your rose tinted glasses may start to mist up fairly quickly. While I accept that the MF crew will initially be happy to have a job and be excited to be starting a new career, human nature is always to look at what might have been and feel hard done by
I have worked in several airlines, each with it's own unique culture. BA has the most corrosive of these - and this is not down to the ability or committment of the individuals involved. In the other airlines where I have worked the Captain is the one person to manage the crew, they are the ones that ensure that CC are looked after properly on their trip. That does not demean or reduce the role of the senior, it is usually the senior to whom crew would go to first but it is the Captain that would deal with the company in all matters relating to crew, be they cabin or other flight crew.
The influx of experienced CC from outside offers an opportunity for a new culture to emerge, hopefully one that will provide a more inclusive atmosphere to develop, perhaps a culture that will take the best bits of the current BA culture with the best bits from elsewhere.
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Ottergirl and Jetset lady I agree with you both totally.
I work on Eurofleet and have a great relationship with all our flight crew.
The picture being painted by ptc is not what I see.
It is horrid the way some flight crew seem to tar all us cabin crew with the same brush and anticipate with glee the 'dols'. As mentioned before ALL crew are keen when they start flying and as is human nature, some always remain keen and some become lazy as I am sure it is the same in all works of life including flight crew.
At first those on Mixed fleet will all be keen but in time they will become tired and fed up. I have recently flown with three temps who are going to mixed fleet and all of them are disillusioned about BA and the way they have been treated by management, not crew. All were not even sure if they wanted to be part of BA anymore but thought they would give it six months to see if Mixed fleet was going to be OK. One had not taken home, ever, more than £1000 in pay since joining BA and one month she only took home £750 in pay. If you think that is going to make for happy crew think again.
All three of these temps were concerned with the pay and also from reading another pro company website that many non strikers are members of, one of them was very worried about the new CSM's, who were mostly main crew, as some of them have been posting in a very 'up them selves' manner and she was very concerned that their new found power was going to some of their heads.
So I am not sure if it is going to be as wonderful as some of you pilots think. Thank you gamekeeper for your more balanced view.
I have actually flown with a number of pilots that are quite worried that initially the new crew will need far more of their input than the more experienced crew do now and some were concerned about the number of new crew that will be on their aircraft at one time.
I work on Eurofleet and have a great relationship with all our flight crew.
The picture being painted by ptc is not what I see.
It is horrid the way some flight crew seem to tar all us cabin crew with the same brush and anticipate with glee the 'dols'. As mentioned before ALL crew are keen when they start flying and as is human nature, some always remain keen and some become lazy as I am sure it is the same in all works of life including flight crew.
At first those on Mixed fleet will all be keen but in time they will become tired and fed up. I have recently flown with three temps who are going to mixed fleet and all of them are disillusioned about BA and the way they have been treated by management, not crew. All were not even sure if they wanted to be part of BA anymore but thought they would give it six months to see if Mixed fleet was going to be OK. One had not taken home, ever, more than £1000 in pay since joining BA and one month she only took home £750 in pay. If you think that is going to make for happy crew think again.
All three of these temps were concerned with the pay and also from reading another pro company website that many non strikers are members of, one of them was very worried about the new CSM's, who were mostly main crew, as some of them have been posting in a very 'up them selves' manner and she was very concerned that their new found power was going to some of their heads.
So I am not sure if it is going to be as wonderful as some of you pilots think. Thank you gamekeeper for your more balanced view.
I have actually flown with a number of pilots that are quite worried that initially the new crew will need far more of their input than the more experienced crew do now and some were concerned about the number of new crew that will be on their aircraft at one time.
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Juan Tugoh,
I see what you are saying and I think that a lot of what you say is correct with regard WW LHR there are some ingrained attitudes towards flight crew, that are passed on. Having said that it goes the other direction also, as can be seen from certain flight crew comments regarding cabin crew on here. It is easy to tar everyone with the same brush wherever you work so I do hope that, that will come to an end too.
Having said that, unfortunately this unnecessary strike has only made this worse as some cabin crew now see all flight crew as volunteers and some flight crew see all cabin crew as strikers!
I hope time will mend this awful mess and I hope BA will play their part in helping this and not making it worse as has been mentioned regarding HATS.
I see what you are saying and I think that a lot of what you say is correct with regard WW LHR there are some ingrained attitudes towards flight crew, that are passed on. Having said that it goes the other direction also, as can be seen from certain flight crew comments regarding cabin crew on here. It is easy to tar everyone with the same brush wherever you work so I do hope that, that will come to an end too.
Having said that, unfortunately this unnecessary strike has only made this worse as some cabin crew now see all flight crew as volunteers and some flight crew see all cabin crew as strikers!
I hope time will mend this awful mess and I hope BA will play their part in helping this and not making it worse as has been mentioned regarding HATS.
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I have actually flown with a number of pilots that are quite worried that initially the new crew will need far more of their input than the more experienced crew do now and some were concerned about the number of new crew that will be on their aircraft at one time.
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The other thing that I would like to mention is that when I fly, I find a very pro cabin crew attitude from the pilots on Eurofleet.
Many are very against the strike but at the same time are pro cabin crew and unhappy with what is happening at the moment. Many see what BA has done with regard Staff Travel as a very damaging thing towards their own future disputes with BA.
So for anyone reading this thread, that dose not fly for BA, please don't think that all pilots dislike cabin crew many are married to them. Some of the more unpleasant Flight crew posts towards current BA cabin crew are not what I encounter out online.
Many are very against the strike but at the same time are pro cabin crew and unhappy with what is happening at the moment. Many see what BA has done with regard Staff Travel as a very damaging thing towards their own future disputes with BA.
So for anyone reading this thread, that dose not fly for BA, please don't think that all pilots dislike cabin crew many are married to them. Some of the more unpleasant Flight crew posts towards current BA cabin crew are not what I encounter out online.
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Giys, guys, please don't get your knickers in a twist!!! Im not at all stating that ALL cc are awful to our flight crew colleagues! There are indeed some, I have spoken to many such crew directly! Going on first hand experience! Glad to hear that you guys are not one of them!!!
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Rep numbers
[QUOTE]Re rep numbers. On the worldwide committee of 19 reps, 11 are CSDs 7 are pursers and 1 is main crew. A massive over representation of CSDs on the fleet most affected by imposition. The correct representation would be 2 CSDs 5 pursers and 12 main crew. Don't know EF numbers/QUOTE]
Thanks Hotel Mode, it is as I suspected.
Why do main crew put up with this situation.......being represented by non-representitive senior crew, who, let's face it, have a lot to lose when Willie has his wicked way? All crew could have kept their old contracts if the BASSA reps had played ball. The real losers in all of this seem to be the un-represented main crew, who have been led down the (wrong) garden path, putting their futures at risk.
Discuss.
Thanks Hotel Mode, it is as I suspected.
Why do main crew put up with this situation.......being represented by non-representitive senior crew, who, let's face it, have a lot to lose when Willie has his wicked way? All crew could have kept their old contracts if the BASSA reps had played ball. The real losers in all of this seem to be the un-represented main crew, who have been led down the (wrong) garden path, putting their futures at risk.
Discuss.
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Ptc,
You obviously don't feel you need our advice. Fine, that's your perogative. We all know there are less than desirable crew out there on both sides but bear in mind how few of the people currently posting on here are actually cabin crew. Do you not even wonder for a moment why three non striking, senior cabin crew for BA all seemingly had the same reaction to your postings?
Good luck. If you have the same attitude online and don't wind your neck in a touch, you're going to need it. I don't care how long you've been flying.
You obviously don't feel you need our advice. Fine, that's your perogative. We all know there are less than desirable crew out there on both sides but bear in mind how few of the people currently posting on here are actually cabin crew. Do you not even wonder for a moment why three non striking, senior cabin crew for BA all seemingly had the same reaction to your postings?
Good luck. If you have the same attitude online and don't wind your neck in a touch, you're going to need it. I don't care how long you've been flying.
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misscanada
Have been away for a few days but pleased to see the debate arising from my five questions to BASSA members over current action, (lack of it !).
I'm sorry if biteme and others have left, should they all give up then the one way comments on this forum would resemble BASSA's own site. Incidentally was not the Ghandi from you biteme ? Rather prescient.
Still awaiting answers to the DH income questions and does anyone know, and will tell what BASSA is currently feeding to their members regarding the current situation and apparent impasse?
C'mon biteme, show you've got the 'cojones' for a little more spirited defence, your allies are surely in need of some support.
I'm sorry if biteme and others have left, should they all give up then the one way comments on this forum would resemble BASSA's own site. Incidentally was not the Ghandi from you biteme ? Rather prescient.
Still awaiting answers to the DH income questions and does anyone know, and will tell what BASSA is currently feeding to their members regarding the current situation and apparent impasse?
C'mon biteme, show you've got the 'cojones' for a little more spirited defence, your allies are surely in need of some support.