British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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"You really should examine the meaning of the words bullying and harassing. I have not seen one comment where people have claimed they are frightened or intimidated by WW or BF. Funny old thing but fear of intimidation seems to be all from non-strikers."
Perhaps you should try being on the receiving end of the letters, emails, words that are being used. This man (WW) is out of control; just go back to how he dealt with the EI situation a few years ago, the Irish PM had to even step in and tell WW to "back off". Wish I could see Gordon Brown doing that, but that's another story ...
Perhaps you should try being on the receiving end of the letters, emails, words that are being used. This man (WW) is out of control; just go back to how he dealt with the EI situation a few years ago, the Irish PM had to even step in and tell WW to "back off". Wish I could see Gordon Brown doing that, but that's another story ...
Controversial, moi?
I can assure you I have seen virtually every communication from both WW and BF to CC. They have been clear and factual. They have certainly not been either bullying or harassing in tone. Neither have they told lies.
BASSA on the other hand....
I have not interest, nor is it relevant, what WW did with EI which was also an airline where jurassic unions refused to see the obvious. It is worthy of note what has just happened to EI CC.
BASSA on the other hand....
I have not interest, nor is it relevant, what WW did with EI which was also an airline where jurassic unions refused to see the obvious. It is worthy of note what has just happened to EI CC.
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Uni 1
I have read every single one of the emails sent to crew on this dispute (generic rather than personal individual emails obviously) And they all contain factual, legally correct statements of consequences of actions. Compare that to threats of poisoning pilots and strike breakers - possibly breaches of anti-terrorism legislation - and the other vitriol on CF and BF is sooooooo wrong.
Please sit down, without emotion, and read the offerings from both sides. Chalk and cheese.
I have read every single one of the emails sent to crew on this dispute (generic rather than personal individual emails obviously) And they all contain factual, legally correct statements of consequences of actions. Compare that to threats of poisoning pilots and strike breakers - possibly breaches of anti-terrorism legislation - and the other vitriol on CF and BF is sooooooo wrong.
Please sit down, without emotion, and read the offerings from both sides. Chalk and cheese.
BA will be wet leasing up to 11 aircraft each day at Heathrow this time, to assist with short haul operations. This is half the number used last weekend, due to the numbers of shorthaul BA cabin crew who are expected to work.
This on top of the increased flying program from last w/e. (From 30% to 55% on SH!)
Similar increase to the LH program too.
This on top of the increased flying program from last w/e. (From 30% to 55% on SH!)
Similar increase to the LH program too.
uni1
There is a continuing trend in this dispute to concentrate on Willie Walsh. i.e. If he left BA all would be well, wishfull thinking.
He is just the CEO and as such is the visible persona of BA. The Board of BA run the company and as such have said time and again they fully support him. As do the City-share price rising, and nearly every other member of BA staff.
Reality.
He is just the CEO and as such is the visible persona of BA. The Board of BA run the company and as such have said time and again they fully support him. As do the City-share price rising, and nearly every other member of BA staff.
Reality.
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M Mouse - well aren't you the lucky one, hope you used the letters to start a good bonfire.
Suggest you think about how BA (WW and the management) are dealing with the communication holistically. Many IR "experts" are saying that it's being dealt with incorrectly. Then it doesn't surprise me WW doesn't exactly have a good track record for tact and deplomacy. Yes of course BASSA or UNITE are the best either, but they are only reacting to what's put in front of them.
As for the "fact and fiction" think both sides are give as good as they get on that.
Suggest you think about how BA (WW and the management) are dealing with the communication holistically. Many IR "experts" are saying that it's being dealt with incorrectly. Then it doesn't surprise me WW doesn't exactly have a good track record for tact and deplomacy. Yes of course BASSA or UNITE are the best either, but they are only reacting to what's put in front of them.
As for the "fact and fiction" think both sides are give as good as they get on that.
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UNi1. Could you please post ( not rumour ) when and what WW has said or done to qualify B and H, apart from offering you no loss of pay............cont for 200 pages 
PS. The numbers of crew are turning up for work currently is online with BA's expectation. So there are a large number who do not agree with you.
PS. The numbers of crew are turning up for work currently is online with BA's expectation. So there are a large number who do not agree with you.
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This may be a simplistic view wrt crew downroute. But if I were to check into a hotel and was being abused from potential strikers, I would just get my phone out and video them. Sure they wouldn't be too pleased about that.
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cellstar - ref your "not a single cancellation from Gatwick departures"
maybe best if we cross-check such reports with BASSA Press Office ; or should that be Propaganda Office .....??
i mean, come on .....we must be sure of our facts here. Perhaps there are really 30, 40 or 50 cancellations...??
.......just like there were 20 747's parked up at Cardiff
.......and only 26 staff turning up for duty at LHR on first strike day last week
........and aircraft taking off empty only to land minutes later just to look 'active'
the truth is out there
it's just not in BASSA-land .......
maybe best if we cross-check such reports with BASSA Press Office ; or should that be Propaganda Office .....??
i mean, come on .....we must be sure of our facts here. Perhaps there are really 30, 40 or 50 cancellations...??
.......just like there were 20 747's parked up at Cardiff
.......and only 26 staff turning up for duty at LHR on first strike day last week
........and aircraft taking off empty only to land minutes later just to look 'active'
the truth is out there
it's just not in BASSA-land .......
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Uni1
It seems to me and also many other crew and also members of the public that WW is not out of control but very much in control. Unite are not representing their members properly and it is them that seem to have an agenda. WW seems to be the focus of this whole thing when in fact as has already been pointed out, the board are fully behind him. This is not going to go away by removing WW which isn't going to happen anyway. Funny though that he seemed to do pretty well in negotiations with other depts.
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Zilli
I think can offer you some reassurance that you will have no problems down route at the hotel.
Last weekend on my flight, we had some cabin crew who expressed significant concern that they would be abused on arrival by the crew already downroute, and again at the end of the layover when they would be returning. We were able to reassure them that there would be 2 of BA's most senior managers in the hotel and on the bus to and from the hotel. We were offered the option of entering the hotel via the normal entrance or via a side entrance, and hotel check-in was done on the aircraft on arrival!
On arrival I went into the lobby to check the lie of the land whilst my pilot colleagues entered with the rest of the crew. There was no-one there. The cabin crew mentioned that they had been told by Bassa that on the previous day, fellow non-strikers had been welcomed with boos and shouts of scab. The manager said that no such confrontation took place, and when we met that crew later that evening they confirmed there had been no intimidation.
It was the same on departure - as much security and privacy as cabin crew wanted, but no problem at all. I and my pilot colleaagues accompanied the cabin crew back to the carpark, again we were there only for reassurance. We weren't needed to intervene in any confrontation at any stage (though we would have if required.)
The threat of contact with strikers is the biggest issue for most cabin crew - BA know this and pulled out all the stops on my flight. It was great to see. It allowed us all, as a crew, to have one of the most upbeat trips I've had since this dispute started.
Bassa are relying on their intimidation to keep people from coming to work. Don't let the bullies get to you - BA is a great place to work without them!
Last weekend on my flight, we had some cabin crew who expressed significant concern that they would be abused on arrival by the crew already downroute, and again at the end of the layover when they would be returning. We were able to reassure them that there would be 2 of BA's most senior managers in the hotel and on the bus to and from the hotel. We were offered the option of entering the hotel via the normal entrance or via a side entrance, and hotel check-in was done on the aircraft on arrival!
On arrival I went into the lobby to check the lie of the land whilst my pilot colleagues entered with the rest of the crew. There was no-one there. The cabin crew mentioned that they had been told by Bassa that on the previous day, fellow non-strikers had been welcomed with boos and shouts of scab. The manager said that no such confrontation took place, and when we met that crew later that evening they confirmed there had been no intimidation.
It was the same on departure - as much security and privacy as cabin crew wanted, but no problem at all. I and my pilot colleaagues accompanied the cabin crew back to the carpark, again we were there only for reassurance. We weren't needed to intervene in any confrontation at any stage (though we would have if required.)
The threat of contact with strikers is the biggest issue for most cabin crew - BA know this and pulled out all the stops on my flight. It was great to see. It allowed us all, as a crew, to have one of the most upbeat trips I've had since this dispute started.
Bassa are relying on their intimidation to keep people from coming to work. Don't let the bullies get to you - BA is a great place to work without them!
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I have just spent 15 minutes trying to get through to someone to talk to at BA, and not one telephone was answered! All I wanted to find out was which hotel we would be staying at if I turned up at work.
I am afraid its not enough to have back door arrival at hotels, if we are all staying in the same hotel, and I come across colleagues during my stay, what am I supposed to say or do? I maybe willing to be a strike breaker, but I am not prepared to justify my actions to colleagues downroute. Am I expected to stay in my room for a week and have room service? As far as I can see, BA have made a good job of protecting us turning up at work but not so much downroute. I cant be expected to spend 24 hrs with a manager or captains!
I am afraid its not enough to have back door arrival at hotels, if we are all staying in the same hotel, and I come across colleagues during my stay, what am I supposed to say or do? I maybe willing to be a strike breaker, but I am not prepared to justify my actions to colleagues downroute. Am I expected to stay in my room for a week and have room service? As far as I can see, BA have made a good job of protecting us turning up at work but not so much downroute. I cant be expected to spend 24 hrs with a manager or captains!
Last edited by ZILLI; 27th Mar 2010 at 12:25. Reason: spelling
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Cabin crew allegiance is skewed towards BASSA not BA. BASSA missives have provoked outrage which magnified by Galley FM has deeply entrenched the feelings of mistrust towards BA.
The cabin crew are feeling singled out and victimised. Not a nice position to be in. Until some of the following perceptions change it is hard to see how things can improve. I am most certainly not tarring all cabin crew with the same brush but some of the militant ones seem to think in the following manner:
Cabin crew Perception: Imposition was illegal and wrong.
Court decision: Imposition was legal and reasonable as BASSA had refused to negotiate.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA are always picking on us
Non-cabin crew view: BA have actually been very fair to the cabin crew but they can no longer be exempt from the hardships of business.
Cabin Crew Perception: Why do we have to make the big financial savings?
Non-cabin crew view: We've all taken pay cuts or accepted changes that disadvantage us. Why should cabin crew be different?
Cabin Crew Perception: We offered a paycut.
Non-cabin crew view: What you offered was a small saving which came nowhere near the originally requested saving. Additionally it wasn't even a paycut as you wanted to be given it all back again after two years. Willie Walsh's original offer which provoked outrage and the strike ballot did not involve any pay cut at all.
Cabin Crew Perception: If we go for a strike Willie Walsh will back down.
Non-cabin crew view: Oh no he won't.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA are bullying us.
Non-cabin crew view: BA are being firm for once and showing they will not be dictated to.
Cabin Crew Perception: If we talk to the press we will be disciplined, this is harassment.
Non-cabin crew view: None of us in BA have ever been allowed to talk to the press without approval from the press office.
Cabin Crew Perception: Everything BASSA say is true. Everything BA says is lies.
Non-cabin crew view: BASSA have frequently lied in an emotive way. BA may have its own take on matters but is not allowed to lie.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA cannot go under under. The government will not let it happen.
Non-cabin crew view: Oh yes it can, the government will let it happen.
Cabin Crew Perception: Staff Travel is contractual and cannot be taken away from us.
Non-cabin crew view: It is not contractual and can be taken away from you.
Cabin Crew Perception: By making a stance and striking now Willie Walsh is less likely to come after us in the future. Otherwise my salary will be reduced by 30%.
Non-cabin crew view: By striking and doing such damage now you have lost any support you may have had and future savings in IFCE will have to be made as a direct result of striking.
I'm sure there are many others.
The cabin crew are feeling singled out and victimised. Not a nice position to be in. Until some of the following perceptions change it is hard to see how things can improve. I am most certainly not tarring all cabin crew with the same brush but some of the militant ones seem to think in the following manner:
Cabin crew Perception: Imposition was illegal and wrong.
Court decision: Imposition was legal and reasonable as BASSA had refused to negotiate.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA are always picking on us
Non-cabin crew view: BA have actually been very fair to the cabin crew but they can no longer be exempt from the hardships of business.
Cabin Crew Perception: Why do we have to make the big financial savings?
Non-cabin crew view: We've all taken pay cuts or accepted changes that disadvantage us. Why should cabin crew be different?
Cabin Crew Perception: We offered a paycut.
Non-cabin crew view: What you offered was a small saving which came nowhere near the originally requested saving. Additionally it wasn't even a paycut as you wanted to be given it all back again after two years. Willie Walsh's original offer which provoked outrage and the strike ballot did not involve any pay cut at all.
Cabin Crew Perception: If we go for a strike Willie Walsh will back down.
Non-cabin crew view: Oh no he won't.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA are bullying us.
Non-cabin crew view: BA are being firm for once and showing they will not be dictated to.
Cabin Crew Perception: If we talk to the press we will be disciplined, this is harassment.
Non-cabin crew view: None of us in BA have ever been allowed to talk to the press without approval from the press office.
Cabin Crew Perception: Everything BASSA say is true. Everything BA says is lies.
Non-cabin crew view: BASSA have frequently lied in an emotive way. BA may have its own take on matters but is not allowed to lie.
Cabin Crew Perception: BA cannot go under under. The government will not let it happen.
Non-cabin crew view: Oh yes it can, the government will let it happen.
Cabin Crew Perception: Staff Travel is contractual and cannot be taken away from us.
Non-cabin crew view: It is not contractual and can be taken away from you.
Cabin Crew Perception: By making a stance and striking now Willie Walsh is less likely to come after us in the future. Otherwise my salary will be reduced by 30%.
Non-cabin crew view: By striking and doing such damage now you have lost any support you may have had and future savings in IFCE will have to be made as a direct result of striking.
I'm sure there are many others.
Last edited by draglift; 27th Mar 2010 at 12:43.
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No clear objectives
Matt101 makes the point:
What will the end be?
The “Loss of Staff Travel Concessions” has polarized the situation. Mr Walsh is adamant it will not be reversed and Mr Steve Turner of UNITE has made it an absolute condition of any settlement.
I am reasonably confident that the current disruption and any subsequent strike dates will become less and less disruptive to BA and the travelling public. The ACTUAL strikers, as opposed to the MBT/Leave/Part Time strike supporters, will become isolated and join the “Liverpool Dockers”.
There is no clear objective down at Bedfont this morning, just the usual BA rhetoric and that really is not getting anybody anywhere. (apart from the high percentage of passengers travelling BA the next four days).
This is my problem with the strike though, the reasons for it haven't been clearly defined, nor have the goals of said action, what will the end be? Is this the best way to go about achieving that end? These are some of the many questions that arise amongst my friends and Unite seem to have been unable to answer them.
The “Loss of Staff Travel Concessions” has polarized the situation. Mr Walsh is adamant it will not be reversed and Mr Steve Turner of UNITE has made it an absolute condition of any settlement.
I am reasonably confident that the current disruption and any subsequent strike dates will become less and less disruptive to BA and the travelling public. The ACTUAL strikers, as opposed to the MBT/Leave/Part Time strike supporters, will become isolated and join the “Liverpool Dockers”.
There is no clear objective down at Bedfont this morning, just the usual BA rhetoric and that really is not getting anybody anywhere. (apart from the high percentage of passengers travelling BA the next four days).
Last edited by Rover90; 27th Mar 2010 at 13:41.
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@ZILLI - why not turn up at work and ask there? If you don't like the answer offload yourself and join the strikers, you've nothing to lose. There are numerous people on this thread who've operated during the strike who have tried to reassure you about the steps BA have taken to protect you. If you choose to ignore them then what further assurance can a BA manager give you over the phone. I very much doubt that they'd tell you which hotel you'd be staying at if you do operate, lest you decide to strike and inform the local BASSA brigade where to gather to harass the incoming crew.
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Zilli
The only real problem is at LHR, not LGW and you are clearly on a 777 or maybe a 747 and definitely will be with other like minded crew.
As Tim says, report for work and absolutely no problem parking in the crew car park and go to CRC and you won't look back.
Good final point though:
That really is too much to ask anybody
The only real problem is at LHR, not LGW and you are clearly on a 777 or maybe a 747 and definitely will be with other like minded crew.
As Tim says, report for work and absolutely no problem parking in the crew car park and go to CRC and you won't look back.
Good final point though:
I cant be expected to spend 24 hrs with a manager or captains!
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Zilli,
From my experience last week BA go to extraordinary lengths to help the non-strikers.
I was on the first half of a back-to-back and at the briefing the crew were very concerned (understandably) about working alongside strikers on the second half. Within 5 minutes a manager popped in to the briefing to guarantee that all the crew on the second half would be non-strikers.
When we checked out of the hotel we were offered the opportunity to leave by a side entrance, in order not to bump into the crew checking in.
The return aircraft went tech when were arrived at the airport, and without question we were booked in to a different hotel to the usual crew hotel.
Clearly I cannot guarantee what happens to you, but from my experience the Company will go to any lengths to avoid confrontation downroute.
From my experience last week BA go to extraordinary lengths to help the non-strikers.
I was on the first half of a back-to-back and at the briefing the crew were very concerned (understandably) about working alongside strikers on the second half. Within 5 minutes a manager popped in to the briefing to guarantee that all the crew on the second half would be non-strikers.
When we checked out of the hotel we were offered the opportunity to leave by a side entrance, in order not to bump into the crew checking in.
The return aircraft went tech when were arrived at the airport, and without question we were booked in to a different hotel to the usual crew hotel.
Clearly I cannot guarantee what happens to you, but from my experience the Company will go to any lengths to avoid confrontation downroute.