British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
It is my understanding that the BASSA reps are not demanding that those who were sacked should be automatically re-employed, nor, that those still suspended should be allowed back to work unchallenged. I believe that is the view of the baying mob.
BASSA reps were happy to accept that each case should be viewed individually by ACAS, neutral, and an assessment made. From what I've heard, heresay I give you, some people deserved their suspension or dismissal but many others didn't. Case by case by a neutral party seems appropriate to me.
BASSA reps were happy to accept that each case should be viewed individually by ACAS, neutral, and an assessment made. From what I've heard, heresay I give you, some people deserved their suspension or dismissal but many others didn't. Case by case by a neutral party seems appropriate to me.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Every cloud has a silver lining...
Litebulbs wrote;
So with your two replies, the WW current crew savings are complete, although this is a simplistic statement. With EF, if the agreements were changed to allow increased flying, there would be another redundancy/part time working issue? This is regardless of the cost of existing crew contracts and new fleet/contract?
So with your two replies, the WW current crew savings are complete, although this is a simplistic statement. With EF, if the agreements were changed to allow increased flying, there would be another redundancy/part time working issue? This is regardless of the cost of existing crew contracts and new fleet/contract?
My personal viewpoint, not those of others
BASSA, unfortunately for its striking members, does not appear to understand the meaning of the word "negotiating" juding by its past performance.
If it did, this dispute would never have come about.
If it did, this dispute would never have come about.
BASSA are left clueless by the words and terms normally used in negotiation, and no-one in their hierarchy knows who to approach for advice. Surprisingly, perhaps, UNITE are pretty useless at it too, because they seem to have a similar attitude to BASSA. With threats and lies being their usual method, BASSA are now genuinely distraught at their utter incapability to get any positive results (as in 'positive' for dinosaur industrial thinkers) for themselves! BASSA are gobsmacked that anyone or anything could possibly refuse them what they have led themselves to believe is their god-given right.
It is so weird to watch happening, but it is so obviously going to happen, because this group are not even on the planet. Entertaining, but utterly exhausting to watch, as it is so fruitless. Mighty damaging for the rest of BA's employees, too, which is why BASSA and their banner waving zombies need stopping. Very soon.
Thinking on, I always thought that the obvious inefficiency on short haul BA was necessary to accomodate the feeder traffic into long haul BA.
Which, if true, may negate an argument that suggests BA short haul should be compared with the likes of easyjet and ryanair. Passengers here are looking at costs, not ease of connections. Of course the two may overlap whereby an easyjet flight arrives in time for a BA long haul, but that is by chance from a passenger point of view. BA has a responsibility to feed its long haul routes, the others don't.
Is this why BA's 'Go' was a bad idea? At the time I thought it's sale to be a daft move.
Which, if true, may negate an argument that suggests BA short haul should be compared with the likes of easyjet and ryanair. Passengers here are looking at costs, not ease of connections. Of course the two may overlap whereby an easyjet flight arrives in time for a BA long haul, but that is by chance from a passenger point of view. BA has a responsibility to feed its long haul routes, the others don't.
Is this why BA's 'Go' was a bad idea? At the time I thought it's sale to be a daft move.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA reps were happy to accept that each case should be viewed individually by ACAS, neutral, and an assessment made. From what I've heard, heresay I give you, some people deserved their suspension or dismissal but many others didn't. Case by case by a neutral party seems appropriate to me.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Her information has been shown to be misleading at best.
She ignores other peoples' opinions and information.
She is insulting and contemptuous to anyone who disagrees with her.
She has repeatedly lied and clearly states that all contrary views are lies against her.
Either way, her input is refreshing. When you compare her conversation skills with those of her like-minded colleagues on Crew Forum, you'll see that MissM is very much a cunning linguist compared to some of the people over there whose sole purpose in life now appears to be making miserable the atmosphere for those of us who worked during the strikes.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The majority of the Bassa mentalists only communicate via the Bassa forum.
They do not read ESS .
They do not listen to anybody who doesn't agree with the lemmings views.
They seem incapable of rational thought or developing any kind of discussion.
Any contrary view is quickly derided in as rude a manner possible.
Everyone is against them. Everyone else is wrong.
They do not read ESS .
They do not listen to anybody who doesn't agree with the lemmings views.
They seem incapable of rational thought or developing any kind of discussion.
Any contrary view is quickly derided in as rude a manner possible.
Everyone is against them. Everyone else is wrong.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 338
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are only lies if SHE doesn't believe what she's saying. You cannot criticise her for telling porkies if she firmly believes what she's saying; and she seems to.
But she is repeating lies that have been pointed out to her many times.
Does she never question what Bassa tell her?
Does she not wonder what the hell the reps are trying to do?
Oh dear, Abbey Rd. Another one succumbs.
So, in the post privatised history of BA, there has, in your opinion, never been a capable manager, leadership team, board or CEO. You'd happily write off the reputation and hard work of many because Walsh has a confronational attitude.
Even though BA's only loss has occurred under Walsh's tenure.
I'm not a manager but it seems you over egg the power of BASSA, and belittle all current management. After all, you infer, Walsh is the only man with balls. What would they have done without him. Perhaps not dived into a costly, by reputation and fianancial, dispute and set departments against each other, which will harm future efficiency. Bugger all those previous managers who have taken time and effort to break down barriers and advance one team integration in the pursuit of an efficient happy workforce.
So, in the post privatised history of BA, there has, in your opinion, never been a capable manager, leadership team, board or CEO. You'd happily write off the reputation and hard work of many because Walsh has a confronational attitude.
Even though BA's only loss has occurred under Walsh's tenure.
I'm not a manager but it seems you over egg the power of BASSA, and belittle all current management. After all, you infer, Walsh is the only man with balls. What would they have done without him. Perhaps not dived into a costly, by reputation and fianancial, dispute and set departments against each other, which will harm future efficiency. Bugger all those previous managers who have taken time and effort to break down barriers and advance one team integration in the pursuit of an efficient happy workforce.
Eddy.
Ultimately the judiciary are independent and neutral and all those under suspension and dismissed could make their representations.
However, to help bring this destructive dispute to a head, an independent review of cases would be appropriate and a small price to pay. Both sides would naturally have to agree to be bound by an independent assessment.
Ultimately the judiciary are independent and neutral and all those under suspension and dismissed could make their representations.
However, to help bring this destructive dispute to a head, an independent review of cases would be appropriate and a small price to pay. Both sides would naturally have to agree to be bound by an independent assessment.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Disciplinary hearings
However, to help bring this destructive dispute to a head, an independent review of cases would be appropriate and a small price to pay. Both sides would naturally have to agree to be bound by an independent assessment.
The country's laws are not changed just to accommodate a specific situation so why do that here?
So many questions - so little time.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very well put, CCC.
Bassa has been very critical in the past of people breaching agreements when it's suited them - the example I remember is the CSD who diverted to PIK from a long-range service and, instead of having two local nights in PIK, continued to London with the flight crew the following morening.
This CSD was the scum of the earth to Bassa's hardliners when he did this....
So why is Bassa now looking to flex an agreement that it has negotiated with the company?!
Sadly, this is one of the other reasons I left Bassa.... One (of only two) time when I called them about a breach of agreements relating to my roster, the rep I spoke to said they would allow it because it basically suited them at that given moment.
As a direct result, I don't get to work in my favourite cabin - First.
Bassa has been very critical in the past of people breaching agreements when it's suited them - the example I remember is the CSD who diverted to PIK from a long-range service and, instead of having two local nights in PIK, continued to London with the flight crew the following morening.
This CSD was the scum of the earth to Bassa's hardliners when he did this....
So why is Bassa now looking to flex an agreement that it has negotiated with the company?!
Sadly, this is one of the other reasons I left Bassa.... One (of only two) time when I called them about a breach of agreements relating to my roster, the rep I spoke to said they would allow it because it basically suited them at that given moment.
As a direct result, I don't get to work in my favourite cabin - First.
Compromise. Thats why.
In this dispute neither side trusts the other. That is why the goalposts should be altered. There can be no allegations or come back, no prejudicial view and a tick in the box of issues to achieve an achievement. (edit - I clearly meant to type agreement!)
This dispute is an exceptional case, not a run of the mill disagreement between disgruntled colleagues. And not only would it satisfy the BASSA and LT camps but it would seem a fair compromise to those caught up in the middle departments, who's loyalties, publicly or othewise, are split.
Compromise. Thats why.
In this dispute neither side trusts the other. That is why the goalposts should be altered. There can be no allegations or come back, no prejudicial view and a tick in the box of issues to achieve an achievement. (edit - I clearly meant to type agreement!)
This dispute is an exceptional case, not a run of the mill disagreement between disgruntled colleagues. And not only would it satisfy the BASSA and LT camps but it would seem a fair compromise to those caught up in the middle departments, who's loyalties, publicly or othewise, are split.
Compromise. Thats why.
Eddy.
Compromise. Thats why.
BASSA are now looking to flex an old agreement in the search for a settlement. I believe, you believe, and the reps believe that change will occur and is necessary. The problems are in the details. So BASSA agree to a change, they compromise.
Compromise. Thats why.
BASSA are now looking to flex an old agreement in the search for a settlement. I believe, you believe, and the reps believe that change will occur and is necessary. The problems are in the details. So BASSA agree to a change, they compromise.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But they are looking to change a tried, tested and effective agreement at a time when the nature of the incidents for which people are facing disciplinary action really lends itself to ensuring full investigation adhering to the mutually agreed rules.
Yes - a lot of the people facing action are innocent. There's no doubt in my mind. But as someone who is being increasingly ignored, threatened and subjected to notes in his dropfile, if I saw someone being effectively 'let off' with a B&H charge without proper investigation, I'd be extremely angry and extremely worried about how much the company really intends to protect me and others like me in the future.
But again, I grant you, the majority of the people facing this action are absolutely innocent - one such person has now returned to work - and I look forward to the company recognising that.
Yes - a lot of the people facing action are innocent. There's no doubt in my mind. But as someone who is being increasingly ignored, threatened and subjected to notes in his dropfile, if I saw someone being effectively 'let off' with a B&H charge without proper investigation, I'd be extremely angry and extremely worried about how much the company really intends to protect me and others like me in the future.
But again, I grant you, the majority of the people facing this action are absolutely innocent - one such person has now returned to work - and I look forward to the company recognising that.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chuchinchow
I can't access the forum anymore, but on their home page for log in is 'About Us.'
It states there that the current membership number is 9818. Many people are holding off resigning so that they can take part in the next ballot.
I can't access the forum anymore, but on their home page for log in is 'About Us.'
It states there that the current membership number is 9818. Many people are holding off resigning so that they can take part in the next ballot.
Who mentioned failing to do a proper investigation? The system works in normal circumstances but this isn't normal, and we agree there are innocents involved, so called casualties of war.
In my view the best way ahead, the best resolution for both sides lies in independence. How would staunch supporters of BA's actions feel if suspendees were found not guilty. Betrayed, suspicious of the motive. Equally how would stauch BASSA supporters feel if suspendees are sacked.
The point is, to mend the wound without offending either party, an independent body should be entrusted to make an impartial view which, by agreement will be binding to both sides.
Again, this is no ordinary situation, it is somewhat exceptional and damaging.
In my view the best way ahead, the best resolution for both sides lies in independence. How would staunch supporters of BA's actions feel if suspendees were found not guilty. Betrayed, suspicious of the motive. Equally how would stauch BASSA supporters feel if suspendees are sacked.
The point is, to mend the wound without offending either party, an independent body should be entrusted to make an impartial view which, by agreement will be binding to both sides.
Again, this is no ordinary situation, it is somewhat exceptional and damaging.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I get what you're saying, PC767, I really do. I too recognise that bringing someone else in to deal with this would probably move things along swiftly and amicably.
But again, it sets a prescedent. Just as Walsh set a dangerous one with imposition, if BA caves on the disciplinaries they'll forever be living under the threat of Bassa not liking the fact that BA is playing by the mutually agreed rules.
But again, it sets a prescedent. Just as Walsh set a dangerous one with imposition, if BA caves on the disciplinaries they'll forever be living under the threat of Bassa not liking the fact that BA is playing by the mutually agreed rules.
This situation is unprecedented. An amount of the suspensions and dismissals were vindictive, were designed to intimidate.
Trust. This is not just about an agreement, it is about rebuilding trust as well. To ensure there is never a question of intent or motive involved in the re-appointment or dismissal of staff, then I suggest the only fair way is an independent investigation and decision on each case.
Trust. This is not just about an agreement, it is about rebuilding trust as well. To ensure there is never a question of intent or motive involved in the re-appointment or dismissal of staff, then I suggest the only fair way is an independent investigation and decision on each case.