British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Travelling Public
What do you base that on? Just because I want to hold onto whatever I have earned?
Hotel Mode
The ballot is not about NewFleet and striking for that now would be illogical, yes.
Hearsay can be discussed but BA has been planning this for almost two years and as I pointed out earlier, do you think they will just give up this idea when you think about how much work they have put in to it?
What do you base that on? Just because I want to hold onto whatever I have earned?
Hotel Mode
The ballot is not about NewFleet and striking for that now would be illogical, yes.
Hearsay can be discussed but BA has been planning this for almost two years and as I pointed out earlier, do you think they will just give up this idea when you think about how much work they have put in to it?
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BA has been planning this for almost two years
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Travelling Public published this on 24 November 2009. I thought it would be worth looking at again.
To which Carnage Matey! added:
There are three types on people working in any organization:-
· Type A. Fully Committed and Fully Competent
· Type B. Fully Committed but not Fully Competent
· Type C. Not Committed but Fully Competent
The As are great, look after them, give them the benefits they deserve.
The Bs can be trained to become As.
Get rid of the Cs, redundancy, pay them off, pursued them to leave, just get rid of them. No business can move forward with Cs in the way.
Well that how it goes in the outside world.
· Type A. Fully Committed and Fully Competent
· Type B. Fully Committed but not Fully Competent
· Type C. Not Committed but Fully Competent
The As are great, look after them, give them the benefits they deserve.
The Bs can be trained to become As.
Get rid of the Cs, redundancy, pay them off, pursued them to leave, just get rid of them. No business can move forward with Cs in the way.
Well that how it goes in the outside world.
You missed type D, not fully committed and not fully competent. Plenty of those amongst a certain workforce.
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A balancing payment would only be temporary until most destinations have gone over to NewFleet.
Say, like the Pilot's scope clause. For example.
That's why we need a more Professional approach to Industrial Relations, by people who understand that negotiate is spelt differently to ballot!
So, thanks to all those who have sent messages about the new council - keep them coming in because the more we have, the more chance we have of being recognised.
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MissM,
A lot of crew I have spoken to (seemingly intelligent ones too) seem to think that the strike ballot is about Newfleet. Last week I had a bit of an argument with a purser on this - she was adamant that the strike was about the NewFleet and that the court case due on the 3rd Feb was about the imposition.
I get the feeling that most crew who are voting for this strike are actually voicing their concerns over the NewFleet proposal, and so think that by a huge yes vote can get newfleet taken off the table. I am not sure that this could work as BF has said that any costs incurred by a strike would be incorporated into IFCEs savings budget. I could be wrong on this though.
A lot of crew I have spoken to (seemingly intelligent ones too) seem to think that the strike ballot is about Newfleet. Last week I had a bit of an argument with a purser on this - she was adamant that the strike was about the NewFleet and that the court case due on the 3rd Feb was about the imposition.
I get the feeling that most crew who are voting for this strike are actually voicing their concerns over the NewFleet proposal, and so think that by a huge yes vote can get newfleet taken off the table. I am not sure that this could work as BF has said that any costs incurred by a strike would be incorporated into IFCEs savings budget. I could be wrong on this though.
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overstress
If BA also had negotiated we wouldn't be having this thread!
HiFlyer14
Good luck with your new council!
AtlasDrawer
Surely there are crew who have no clue what this dispute is all about. To vote for something which you don't know anything about can be dangerous. I would think that many also voted for a strike because they are fed up with our management and want to put their foot down once and for all.
No, you are right that all costs involved in a possible strike would be added on top of IFCE and as I have said I would want more than anything that an agreement could have been reached TODAY!
If BA also had negotiated we wouldn't be having this thread!
HiFlyer14
Good luck with your new council!
AtlasDrawer
Surely there are crew who have no clue what this dispute is all about. To vote for something which you don't know anything about can be dangerous. I would think that many also voted for a strike because they are fed up with our management and want to put their foot down once and for all.
No, you are right that all costs involved in a possible strike would be added on top of IFCE and as I have said I would want more than anything that an agreement could have been reached TODAY!
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If BA also had negotiated we wouldn't be having this thread!
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Surely there are crew who have no clue what this dispute is all about. To vote for something which you don't know anything about can be dangerous. I would think that many also voted for a strike because they are fed up with our management and want to put their foot down once and for all.
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HiFlyer,
At long last there's something in place for like minded, non-militant BA crew who resigned from BASSA without any fear of bullying and intimidation for being pro-BA.
New Council for Professional BA Cabin Crew is long overdue but as they say 'better late than never' in my view.
At long last there's something in place for like minded, non-militant BA crew who resigned from BASSA without any fear of bullying and intimidation for being pro-BA.
New Council for Professional BA Cabin Crew is long overdue but as they say 'better late than never' in my view.
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Do the CC really know what this strike ballot is all about?
If this is true,
then the whole ballot needs to be clarified. Bassa need to make sure that the ballot paper contains a statement giving the reason the ballot is being held.
A result of a vote cannot be taken seriously unless the constituents know why they are voting. - Otherwise another opportunity is presented to BA to try to nullify the ballot. - Have Bassa done it again?
A lot of crew I have spoken to (seemingly intelligent ones too) seem to think that the strike ballot is about Newfleet. Last week I had a bit of an argument with a purser on this - she was adamant that the strike was about the NewFleet and that the court case due on the 3rd Feb was about the imposition.
A result of a vote cannot be taken seriously unless the constituents know why they are voting. - Otherwise another opportunity is presented to BA to try to nullify the ballot. - Have Bassa done it again?
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Really A Lurker, finished playing with BASSA now???
AtlasDrawer - this is the problem, I think a fairly large proportion of crew voted Yes based on ''I don't want to go on New Fleet''.
I have had many people say to me, ''I don't want it to be like bmi where the company ring you on your days off to change your flights/ask you to come in'' I've had people say ''I don't want to be earning £1000 a month like LGW'' ''if we don't strike they will starve us of work and will HAVE to go on New Fleet within 52 weeks'' ''we have to get WW to negotiate New Fleet'' - all of this is speculation and rumour, fuelled by scaremongering from the BASSA side. I must admit I would hate to be being called at home all the time with changes to my roster like I hear bmi always are, but who said this has come in or is being proposed??? Who said we will be earning £1000 a month... who even said LGW crew get only that? Who even said exactly how much New fleet will be on? It may not be that bad market rate plus 10%.... I can understand how people are concerned but some people believe BASSA spin 100%. BA has given the option for BASSA to negotiate. We HAVE to work harder that's all what BA want, with new crew on a new contract.... BASSA keep banging on about accepting changes but the proposal is half hearted and is detrimental to some crew and saves only a 1/3 the company needs. BASSA were not prepared to negotiate further than this therfore a company losing £1m a day had to do something..... now BASSA whinge about that!!
This ballot was about imposition not New Fleet - which is still yet to be negotiate. Ironically BA are willing to negotiate it as Willie wrote to Unite, Unite didn't bother replying.. just started the ballot instead! However BASSA say that striking will bring BA back to the negotiating table! Ironic really! People need to ask.... what do they think they will achieve by striking and also need to ask themselves why did BA impose? Was it because they are mean or is because BASSA were arrogant.. threatening strikes, not negotiating etc etc and something needed to be done for BA to survive! I think it is the latter! Is the imposition that bad?
AtlasDrawer - this is the problem, I think a fairly large proportion of crew voted Yes based on ''I don't want to go on New Fleet''.
I have had many people say to me, ''I don't want it to be like bmi where the company ring you on your days off to change your flights/ask you to come in'' I've had people say ''I don't want to be earning £1000 a month like LGW'' ''if we don't strike they will starve us of work and will HAVE to go on New Fleet within 52 weeks'' ''we have to get WW to negotiate New Fleet'' - all of this is speculation and rumour, fuelled by scaremongering from the BASSA side. I must admit I would hate to be being called at home all the time with changes to my roster like I hear bmi always are, but who said this has come in or is being proposed??? Who said we will be earning £1000 a month... who even said LGW crew get only that? Who even said exactly how much New fleet will be on? It may not be that bad market rate plus 10%.... I can understand how people are concerned but some people believe BASSA spin 100%. BA has given the option for BASSA to negotiate. We HAVE to work harder that's all what BA want, with new crew on a new contract.... BASSA keep banging on about accepting changes but the proposal is half hearted and is detrimental to some crew and saves only a 1/3 the company needs. BASSA were not prepared to negotiate further than this therfore a company losing £1m a day had to do something..... now BASSA whinge about that!!
This ballot was about imposition not New Fleet - which is still yet to be negotiate. Ironically BA are willing to negotiate it as Willie wrote to Unite, Unite didn't bother replying.. just started the ballot instead! However BASSA say that striking will bring BA back to the negotiating table! Ironic really! People need to ask.... what do they think they will achieve by striking and also need to ask themselves why did BA impose? Was it because they are mean or is because BASSA were arrogant.. threatening strikes, not negotiating etc etc and something needed to be done for BA to survive! I think it is the latter! Is the imposition that bad?
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then the whole ballot needs to be clarified. Bassa need to make sure that the ballot paper contains a statement giving the reason the ballot is being held.
A result of a vote cannot be taken seriously unless the constituents know why they are voting. - Otherwise another opportunity is presented to BA to try to nullify the ballot. - Have Bassa done it again?
A result of a vote cannot be taken seriously unless the constituents know why they are voting. - Otherwise another opportunity is presented to BA to try to nullify the ballot. - Have Bassa done it again?
I know that most crew on EF are OK about the new crewing levels, most people realise that BA need to make cutbacks somewhere. The people I have spoken to, anyway. I rather think that the crewing levels are more of an issue on WW.
With regards to the ballot paper, yes I believe it does need to be clarified on it what the strike is for. The last one just said 'Are you willing to participate in industrial action?' (or words to that effect) and that was it. Nothing about what it was for, its seemed to me to be very generalistic.
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AtlasDrawer - це проблема, я думаю, досить значна частина екіпажу проголосує на основе''Я не хочу йти на новий флот''.
У мене було багато людей кажуть мені:''Я не хочу бути схожим на ІМТ, де компанія зателефонувати вам на вашому днів відпустки, щоб змінити вашу польотів / просимо вас приїхати в''Я був кажуть'' Я не хочу, щоб заробляти £ 1000 в місяць, як ЛДВ'''', якщо ми не вдарити вони будуть голодувати нам роботу, і їм доведеться йти на новий флот протягом 52 недель''''ми повинні отримати WW вести переговори з новим флотом''-все це спекуляції і чутки, що підігрівається панікерством з боку Баса. Я мушу зізнатися, я ненавиджу бути називатися будинку весь час зі змінами в мій список, як я чув ІМТ завжди, але хто сказав, це сталося в даний час або пропозицію?? Хто сказав, що ми будемо заробляти £ 1000 на місяць ... який навіть сказав ЛДВ екіпажу одержати тільки те, що? Хто ще сказав, скільки новий флот буде на? Воно не може бути поганим, що ринкова ставка плюс 10 %.... Я можу зрозуміти, як люди стурбовані, але деякі люди вважають, Баса спину 100%. Б. дав варіантом Басса до переговорів. Ми повинні працювати важче, що все, що хочете Б.А., з новим екіпажем на новий контракт .... Бас тримати стукати про прийняття змін, але ця пропозиція половині серцем і завдає шкоди деяким екіпажу і зберігає тільки 1 / 3 потреб компанії. Бас не були готові вести переговори далі, ніж це therfore компанією втрати 1 млн фунтів на день, щоб зробити щось ..... Зараз Басса бідкатися про це!
Це голосування було не про запровадження нового парку - як і раніше, ще належить домовитися. За іронією долі Б. готові вести переговори як Віллі пише, щоб об'єднатися, об'єднаємося не турбувати відповідаючи .. тільки почалося голосування замість! Однак Басса сказати, що яскравий принесе Б. повернутися до столу переговорів! Ironic насправді! Люди повинні запитати .... Що вони думають вони доб'ються ударів, а також повинні запитати себе, чому Б. нав'язувати? Було це тому, що вони є середніми або тому, що Басса були зарозумілі .. загрожує страйком, а не переговори і т.д. і т.д. і щось необхідно зробити для Б.А., щоб вижити! Я думаю, що це остання! Чи є введення так погано?
У мене було багато людей кажуть мені:''Я не хочу бути схожим на ІМТ, де компанія зателефонувати вам на вашому днів відпустки, щоб змінити вашу польотів / просимо вас приїхати в''Я був кажуть'' Я не хочу, щоб заробляти £ 1000 в місяць, як ЛДВ'''', якщо ми не вдарити вони будуть голодувати нам роботу, і їм доведеться йти на новий флот протягом 52 недель''''ми повинні отримати WW вести переговори з новим флотом''-все це спекуляції і чутки, що підігрівається панікерством з боку Баса. Я мушу зізнатися, я ненавиджу бути називатися будинку весь час зі змінами в мій список, як я чув ІМТ завжди, але хто сказав, це сталося в даний час або пропозицію?? Хто сказав, що ми будемо заробляти £ 1000 на місяць ... який навіть сказав ЛДВ екіпажу одержати тільки те, що? Хто ще сказав, скільки новий флот буде на? Воно не може бути поганим, що ринкова ставка плюс 10 %.... Я можу зрозуміти, як люди стурбовані, але деякі люди вважають, Баса спину 100%. Б. дав варіантом Басса до переговорів. Ми повинні працювати важче, що все, що хочете Б.А., з новим екіпажем на новий контракт .... Бас тримати стукати про прийняття змін, але ця пропозиція половині серцем і завдає шкоди деяким екіпажу і зберігає тільки 1 / 3 потреб компанії. Бас не були готові вести переговори далі, ніж це therfore компанією втрати 1 млн фунтів на день, щоб зробити щось ..... Зараз Басса бідкатися про це!
Це голосування було не про запровадження нового парку - як і раніше, ще належить домовитися. За іронією долі Б. готові вести переговори як Віллі пише, щоб об'єднатися, об'єднаємося не турбувати відповідаючи .. тільки почалося голосування замість! Однак Басса сказати, що яскравий принесе Б. повернутися до столу переговорів! Ironic насправді! Люди повинні запитати .... Що вони думають вони доб'ються ударів, а також повинні запитати себе, чому Б. нав'язувати? Було це тому, що вони є середніми або тому, що Басса були зарозумілі .. загрожує страйком, а не переговори і т.д. і т.д. і щось необхідно зробити для Б.А., щоб вижити! Я думаю, що це остання! Чи є введення так погано?
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AtlasDrawer
Atlasdrawer, please don't start this all over again. At no point EVER Bassa said that the strike was about the new fleet. We have been over this several times now for the last few months
I don't know what airline you work for but I have not met a single person who has voted yes for industrial action because of the new fleet.
BASSA MADE IT CLEAR TO ITS MEMBERS , FROM DAY ONE,THAT WE CAN NOT BALLOT OR STRIKE FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT EXIST .
MissM,
A lot of crew I have spoken to (seemingly intelligent ones too) seem to think that the strike ballot is about Newfleet. Last week I had a bit of an argument with a purser on this - she was adamant that the strike was about the NewFleet and that the court case due on the 3rd Feb was about the imposition.
I get the feeling that most crew who are voting for this strike are actually voicing their concerns over the NewFleet proposal, and so think that by a huge yes vote can get newfleet taken off the table. I am not sure that this could work as BF has said that any costs incurred by a strike would be incorporated into IFCEs savings budget. I could be wrong on this though.
A lot of crew I have spoken to (seemingly intelligent ones too) seem to think that the strike ballot is about Newfleet. Last week I had a bit of an argument with a purser on this - she was adamant that the strike was about the NewFleet and that the court case due on the 3rd Feb was about the imposition.
I get the feeling that most crew who are voting for this strike are actually voicing their concerns over the NewFleet proposal, and so think that by a huge yes vote can get newfleet taken off the table. I am not sure that this could work as BF has said that any costs incurred by a strike would be incorporated into IFCEs savings budget. I could be wrong on this though.
I don't know what airline you work for but I have not met a single person who has voted yes for industrial action because of the new fleet.
BASSA MADE IT CLEAR TO ITS MEMBERS , FROM DAY ONE,THAT WE CAN NOT BALLOT OR STRIKE FOR SOMETHING THAT DOES NOT EXIST .
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I am sorry I am going to have to disagree with you on the reasons for the strike. I never said that Bassa said the strike was about newfleet, just that there is an awful lot of misinformation about the reasons for the strike and this is being thought by the people out on line.
SlideBustle wrote:
AtlasDrawer - this is the problem, I think a fairly large proportion of crew voted Yes based on ''I don't want to go on New Fleet''.
I have had many people say to me, ''I don't want it to be like bmi where the company ring you on your days off to change your flights/ask you to come in'' I've had people say ''I don't want to be earning £1000 a month like LGW'' ''if we don't strike they will starve us of work and will HAVE to go on New Fleet within 52 weeks'' ''we have to get WW to negotiate New Fleet'' - all of this is speculation and rumour, fuelled by scaremongering from the BASSA side. I must admit I would hate to be being called at home all the time with changes to my roster like I hear bmi always are, but who said this has come in or is being proposed??? Who said we will be earning £1000 a month... who even said LGW crew get only that? Who even said exactly how much New fleet will be on? It may not be that bad market rate plus 10%.... I can understand how people are concerned but some people believe BASSA spin 100%. BA has given the option for BASSA to negotiate. We HAVE to work harder that's all what BA want, with new crew on a new contract.... BASSA keep banging on about accepting changes but the proposal is half hearted and is detrimental to some crew and saves only a 1/3 the company needs. BASSA were not prepared to negotiate further than this therfore a company losing £1m a day had to do something..... now BASSA whinge about that!!
So I am not the only one hearing this, I hope that if you hear stuff like this from a crew member you shall put them straight on the reasons for the ballot, because I give up.
SlideBustle wrote:
AtlasDrawer - this is the problem, I think a fairly large proportion of crew voted Yes based on ''I don't want to go on New Fleet''.
I have had many people say to me, ''I don't want it to be like bmi where the company ring you on your days off to change your flights/ask you to come in'' I've had people say ''I don't want to be earning £1000 a month like LGW'' ''if we don't strike they will starve us of work and will HAVE to go on New Fleet within 52 weeks'' ''we have to get WW to negotiate New Fleet'' - all of this is speculation and rumour, fuelled by scaremongering from the BASSA side. I must admit I would hate to be being called at home all the time with changes to my roster like I hear bmi always are, but who said this has come in or is being proposed??? Who said we will be earning £1000 a month... who even said LGW crew get only that? Who even said exactly how much New fleet will be on? It may not be that bad market rate plus 10%.... I can understand how people are concerned but some people believe BASSA spin 100%. BA has given the option for BASSA to negotiate. We HAVE to work harder that's all what BA want, with new crew on a new contract.... BASSA keep banging on about accepting changes but the proposal is half hearted and is detrimental to some crew and saves only a 1/3 the company needs. BASSA were not prepared to negotiate further than this therfore a company losing £1m a day had to do something..... now BASSA whinge about that!!
So I am not the only one hearing this, I hope that if you hear stuff like this from a crew member you shall put them straight on the reasons for the ballot, because I give up.
I don't get it 
I don't get it
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Atlas Drawer wrote:
I don't think that anyone is suggesting that you did, but other posts here seem to indicate that the message has not got through to some staff. Miss M would seem to concur with this, saying along the lines of that it is dangerous to vote unless you know what you are voting for. This is the reason I suggested that the ballot paper should clearly indicate why the strike ballot is being called. The very last thing that is needed is for some of the voters, be they of the "yes" or "no" mind, to be voting the way they do for the wrong reason. All that can produce is the wrong result, no matter what your own personal view.
I never said that Bassa said the strike was about newfleet, just that there is an awful lot of misinformation about the reasons for the strike and this is being thought by the people out on line.