British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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romans44 ref post 1216
Your comments may well be valid and relevant, but rather than say "can't work, won't work", how about some contructive comments on a report back to IFCE management.
Seldom does any operational role go like clockwork, think about the NHS, someone has a cardiac arrest, an RTA occurs, there is sickness etc etc, good teams adapt, rally round, show flexibility to go the extra mile.......so why the BASSA demarcation ?
Your comments may well be valid and relevant, but rather than say "can't work, won't work", how about some contructive comments on a report back to IFCE management.
Seldom does any operational role go like clockwork, think about the NHS, someone has a cardiac arrest, an RTA occurs, there is sickness etc etc, good teams adapt, rally round, show flexibility to go the extra mile.......so why the BASSA demarcation ?
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LGW and LHR are totally different markets, hence totally different agreements and crewing levels - according to BA
Which bit of the equation am I missing? Or is it simply different agreements, as opposed to different workload?
Or is it [as per your link] that we J/F pax bring in enough money to BA to justify the LHR CC getting paid more than the LGW crews despite being less hard worked?
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LGW and LHR are totally different bases with totally different markets and customers - according to Mr Walsh
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Peterlondon in march 2008 you claimed to have been offered a job as CC at Gatwick after not getting in at Heathrow, you turned it down due to low pay. So wannabee CC!!!!!!!!
Its in your public profile.
Its in your public profile.
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but i wouldnt wish anyone out of a job
The question is ... WHY?
Why is it deemed necessary to impose such a massive potential penalty to the company, fellow staff members, thousands in other supporting companies and millions of pax through IA?
The distilled issue appears to be requiring LHR CSD's to do some extra work, in return for which BA can reduce crew level by one and thus save a substantial annual staff cost and help save the company. And for that, BASSA is prepared to bring down the entire company and tens of thousands of jobs? Is it any wonder that emotions run a bit high at times?
BTW, it's only the Internet.
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a pleasant surprise in ABZ
I had a trip to NYC booked for 22 Dec just when the proposed 12 days of selfishness was planned. Up until 14 Dec the future Mrs Skilly was raging about the BA CC, it was only on the 14 Dec around 1500 hrs she calmed down a bit. Straight to my main point...
we got to ABZ for the 0630 to LHR to find it cancelled due to snow and ice so we knew the AA connection to JFK was a non starter. After a bit of fag packet admin BA got a 757 parked across the runway fired up for the LHR trip. Those of you who have flown into ABZ will realise there are one or two helicopters departing and it seemed like wacky races as every type of aircraft was trying to get out. My good lady was saying things like these ba$tards probably voted to try and screw our Christmas and that of around 1,000,000 others. I told her I thought she might be wrong, she replied 12,000 out of 14,000 voted to strike so there's a good chance one or more of our CC did.
I am a lurker on here but I would like to say despite all the problems surrounding BA at the moment, the CC and those at the pointy end were very professional for the 5 hrs stuck over on a HLS across the runway and any opinions were kept to themselves throughout despite some passengers asking the obvious big question. We have decided to get married in Vegas later this year and were planning a KLM flight but tonight booked BA. I know we are taking a chance but we will stay loyal to BA as I believe that despite politics the CC do want to regarded as professionals and not 1970's militant Leyland workers.
Hopefully both sides can come to some agreement and BA can in my opinion continue to be an excellent airline.
My first trip to NYC was fantastic (once we got there)
we got to ABZ for the 0630 to LHR to find it cancelled due to snow and ice so we knew the AA connection to JFK was a non starter. After a bit of fag packet admin BA got a 757 parked across the runway fired up for the LHR trip. Those of you who have flown into ABZ will realise there are one or two helicopters departing and it seemed like wacky races as every type of aircraft was trying to get out. My good lady was saying things like these ba$tards probably voted to try and screw our Christmas and that of around 1,000,000 others. I told her I thought she might be wrong, she replied 12,000 out of 14,000 voted to strike so there's a good chance one or more of our CC did.
I am a lurker on here but I would like to say despite all the problems surrounding BA at the moment, the CC and those at the pointy end were very professional for the 5 hrs stuck over on a HLS across the runway and any opinions were kept to themselves throughout despite some passengers asking the obvious big question. We have decided to get married in Vegas later this year and were planning a KLM flight but tonight booked BA. I know we are taking a chance but we will stay loyal to BA as I believe that despite politics the CC do want to regarded as professionals and not 1970's militant Leyland workers.
Hopefully both sides can come to some agreement and BA can in my opinion continue to be an excellent airline.
My first trip to NYC was fantastic (once we got there)
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OK point taken, but Mr Salmon wouldn't have taken his custom else where if there was no threat of strike action by Bassa. I like most BA customers would like to see this resolved in a grown up manner, so we can all go back to BA without being worried about any impact on our travel plans.
I am only a passenger but to watch the once worlds favourite airline torn apart from within saddens me.
I am only a passenger but to watch the once worlds favourite airline torn apart from within saddens me.
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LGW and LHR are totally different bases with totally different markets and customers - according to Mr Walsh
Maybe some people can't see that as a reason as to why we should have more crew at LHR but many flights are very demanding and really hard to operate. This is touchy to mention but LGW accepted those crewing levels a few years ago. We at LHR has not!
Why is it deemed necessary to impose such a massive potential penalty to the company, fellow staff members, thousands in other supporting companies and millions of pax through IA?
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There were few of the more 'garrulous' BASSA posters missing yesterday evening.
See page 60, my post 1182.
Perhaps BA have identified some of the CC concerned?
[edit - though not MissM, obviously! See you tomorrow, I trust.]
See page 60, my post 1182.
Perhaps BA have identified some of the CC concerned?
[edit - though not MissM, obviously! See you tomorrow, I trust.]
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you seem to be taking pleasure in the thought of people losing their jobs.
If you take the trouble to read my contributions carefully, you will see that I have continually warned BA cabin crew members not to strike - for fear of losing their livelihoods when the company is reorganised.
Do not put words in my mouth; leave that to the BASSA hotheads that infest this thread.
Junior trash
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It's necessary because BA placed this imposition on us. That's why!
Without, if you can manage it, using the words: Unites 175m savings/ generous offer, price fixing, or any other such BASSA propaganda.
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New disruption agreement, get rid of the telephone allowance, two year pay freeze and new entrant contracts with different terms and conditions but on EXISTING fleets.
Maybe not necessary to go back to previous crewing levels but I do think that they should go up with 1 crew on both 747 and 777. I don't know how it works on 767 because I'm not on it but I heard from a friend that mid-galley is sometimes being left unattended as long as 20 minutes during the service.
Maybe not necessary to go back to previous crewing levels but I do think that they should go up with 1 crew on both 747 and 777. I don't know how it works on 767 because I'm not on it but I heard from a friend that mid-galley is sometimes being left unattended as long as 20 minutes during the service.
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Miss M - The problem is that those savings weren't enough and in any event Unite wanted them paid back. In the case of the disruption agreement in particular, BASSA massively over-estimated the potential savings.
The fact that BASSA is prepared to bet the farm on modest changes to crewing levels is utter lunacy.
The fact that BASSA is prepared to bet the farm on modest changes to crewing levels is utter lunacy.
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new entrant contracts with different terms and conditions but on EXISTING fleets.
Doesn't seem entirely fair does it?
BA have agreed to protect current crew by paying a balancing payment for lost bonuses if certain routes go to new fleet. As it would involve averaging the top end CSD's would lose a bit whilst the junior crew would gain a bit.
I wonder why BASSA aren't all that keen then?
Oh well, another week of chaos as Britain disappears under a foot of snow anyway.
Forgot to add, the disruption savings that BASSA quoted in their original savings were the total costs for a diverted aircraft including Engineering, Navigation fees, parking fees, displaced hull costs, hotac, flight crew costs etc, etc, etc.
Once the total actual savings for the CC were taken into account they added up to very little.
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LD12986
I know that their savings were exaggarated and especially in their new disruption agreement. I don't agree that they should be paid back in two years because they can stuff them wherever they want. BA is asking for a lot of money and all these savings are huge changes for IFCE!
wobble2plank
Maybe BA could offer the same package (market rate + 10%) but on existing fleets. I have my suspiciouns as to why BA wants its to be on a different fleet and it's purely to get rid of us existing crew.
A balancing payment would only be temporary until most destinations have gone over to NewFleet. That's my and many other crews' bet. Whatever WW or BF says should be taken with a pinch of salt.
I know that BASSA's numbers for the new disruption agreement were hugely miscalculated.
I know that their savings were exaggarated and especially in their new disruption agreement. I don't agree that they should be paid back in two years because they can stuff them wherever they want. BA is asking for a lot of money and all these savings are huge changes for IFCE!
wobble2plank
Maybe BA could offer the same package (market rate + 10%) but on existing fleets. I have my suspiciouns as to why BA wants its to be on a different fleet and it's purely to get rid of us existing crew.
A balancing payment would only be temporary until most destinations have gone over to NewFleet. That's my and many other crews' bet. Whatever WW or BF says should be taken with a pinch of salt.
I know that BASSA's numbers for the new disruption agreement were hugely miscalculated.
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MissM
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"Maybe BA could offer the same package (market rate + 10%) but on existing fleets. I have my suspiciouns as to why BA wants its to be on a different fleet and it's purely to get rid of us existing crew. "
Am sure BA would very much want to be rid of you, not so sure about other crew though.
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"Maybe BA could offer the same package (market rate + 10%) but on existing fleets. I have my suspiciouns as to why BA wants its to be on a different fleet and it's purely to get rid of us existing crew. "
Am sure BA would very much want to be rid of you, not so sure about other crew though.
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A balancing payment would only be temporary until most destinations have gone over to NewFleet. That's my and many other crews' bet. Whatever WW or BF says should be taken with a pinch of salt.