British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V

[romans44]

Hi Glamgirl,

I'm not sure as to why you're worried about CSDs like Tiramisu. S/he has posted very valid points on this thread and has always been polite. I don't know where you get it from that s/he dislikes cc. You may not necessarily agree with everything people post here, but it's blindingly obvious to me that Tiramisu is level-headed and genuine, with great concerns about the state of the airline and some crew members.

You've been away for a while, and I'm just interested to know whether you've come up with any new suggestions as to how to save costs.

Gg

I went back home over the holiday and been busy flying....how are you?
If you were to ask me personally, I would say to you that a large amount of money could be saved by pay cuts. Though they would have to be reinstated once the airline is back in profitability...
For the rest I totally support the proposal that my union gave the company back in June 2009.
Hope you had a nice holiday and happy new year.

[Glamgirl]

Thanks for your reply Romans,

Can I ask you what percentage you think is fitting as a pay cut? And do you mean it as a temporary pay cut and when profitability is back (if ever), your pay goes up, or do you mean you receive the lost moneys for the period of the pay cut as well?

Holidays?? What's that then?? Happy new year to you too.

I know Tiramisu is perfectly capable of answering him/herself, but I'm looking forward to working with inspired and enthusiastic crew as well. Some days that happens, some days it doesn't. What I think Tiramisu meant, is that the cc who don't pull their weight, who don't enjoy the job anymore, those are the ones that are "deadwood" and they need to go. I happen to agree, as I feel that in a customer facing job, we need to enjoy it to do it well. Also, life's too short to not enjoy our jobs. We spend so much time at work, so we might as well enjoy it. I'm sure a day will come when I don't want to do this job anymore, and that's when I'll move on to other things, whether within BA or in the "outside" world.

Gg

[Matt101]

Originally Posted by romans44

BA lawyers have already admited to the High Court judge that there were irregularities with the new changes imposed by the company.

No they admitted that they had more work to do to prove that there were not irregularities.

If you were to ask me personally, I would say to you that a large amount of money could be saved by pay cuts. Though they would have to be reinstated once the airline is back in profitability...

With Crude oil back up to $80 a barrel? Also did you know that the turnover of BA in the last financial year and passengers carried was actually higher than in 2007 - this isn't people not travelling it's something more serious - people are moving away from the premium market on which BA relies. That shift is something which will take many years to recover if it ever does.

The trouble is there is a lack of realisation by the Dinosaur that is Unite that we live in a very different world than we did 10 years ago. There are far better, newer products out there with networks which rival BA's, have a lower cost base and provide a better service. Temporary solutions would only bring temporary profits

Yet again I find it bizarre that people would prefer a pay cut over putting in a little more effort to bring your PLC into profit.

[Albert Salmon]

Wonker #1195

not a load of saddo's who claim to have a £250,000 travel budget and live in a tax haven who cares about you. So wake up and smell the sewage.

Oh dear, Wonker. Are things that bad that you can no longer debate properly but have to reduce yourself to slinging personal insults?

Don't worry: all your personal remarks (including "So stick your 1/4 mil somewhere else I couldn't care less about the type of person you and your company employ it's small fry smokie") are all cut and pasted to a separate file and have been passed on to BA management.

Perhaps I might slip you 50p to help you pay for a cup of tea when I see you shivering in the street, queuing for a street sweeping job.

But, in the meantime, stay off the personal insults and stick to promoting BASSA. You do that so much better.

[Freehills]

Interestingly (or maybe not) BA are advertising for cabin crew. In Hong Kong, on a two year contract.

[Albert Salmon]

Romans44 #1199

Dear Mr Albert Salmon, I've read with interest all your posts on here.
I would like to say that as a BA CC I am sorry to see you go, however I am baffled by the fact that you keep coming back on this forum.
Why the obsession with us?
I wish you luck and hope you will find perfect happiness.

Thank you for your kind words, Romans44.

I "keep coming back to this forum" not because of any "obsession" with you, but rather because I do not wish to see a group of militant, bolshie, overpaid and underworked hotheads ruin a perfectly good business.

If you find my presence on this website unpalatable please remember that it is open to anyone - including disgruntled passengers.

Believe it or not, we are the most important factor in BA's passenger operations - not cabin crew. If we do not fly with British Airways because its crews cannot or will not work the company will fail - and you will fall.

I, too, wish you luck and I hope you will speedily find employment somewhere else - but not in a customer service environment. You and your pro-strike at any cost colleagues have proved that you are patently unsuited for that.

[fly12345]

Romans, The new crew complement is absolutely no problem and in my personal experience the service has not deteriorated but actually it has improved.

[Ten West]

Right back to the beginning again.

Like they do every day.

[deeceethree]

The true BASSA believer is not used to being questioned, they prefer to blindly obey.

They cannot think for themselves, they obey the leader unquestioningly, even to destruction.

Like a cult.

Truer than you think, overstress. The following sums up BASSA quite well:

Paranoia is a psychotic disorder characterized by delusions of persecution with or without grandeur, often strenuously defended with apparent logic and reason. It involves an extreme, irrational distrust of others.

That definition of paranoia applies not only to individuals; it also fits large groups of people, like the disastrous gathering of people in Jonestown, Guyana, who killed themselves with cyanide poisoning.

The Sci-Tech dictionary, by McGraw Hill describes paranoia as having “...properties of suspiciousness, fearfulness, hostility, hypersensitivity, rigidity of conviction, and an exaggerated sense of self-reference".

The Medical Encyclopedia says, "Paranoid individuals constantly suspect the motives of those around them, and believe that certain individuals, or people in general, are ‘out to get them’.”

While paranoia in individuals has no known cure, it can be controlled with medication. Group paranoia has no known treatment. Thus, if a group like those following the dictates of cult leader Jim Jones succumbs to paranoia, it's incurable.

Not only is it incurable, it's exceptionally dangerous to members of the group as well as to others in contact with the group.

Looks like many of us will have ring-side seats at the next 'mass-suicide'. The sooner, the better - come on BASSA, get on with it!

[SlideBustle]

The crew complements have worked for me aswell... mind you I haven't done many Band 1s/domestics, however I have done a couple of CDG, one of which was full with 3 crew - we managed to finish the service!! I will say though, if any turbulence, any delay or any problems requiring the SCCM to speak to Captain or customer then there may have been problems - but in all fairness most of the times that's not a problem. I HAVE heard of some crew having problems, I don't know whether that is because it doesn't work or whether it is because some crew are ''making a point'' ''Let's go really slow so we don't finish!'' - if I operated a flight where it didn't work, all I would do is report it to the company. The Band 4 service standards have changed a few times recently from customer and crew feedback. Thats what the company want you to do they know some of the routines are not perfect but as they say rather than whinge about it just report it!! It IS harder work, but what do you expect?

Romans, I think what Tiramisu was referring to by ''bring on New Fleet to get rid of some of the deadwood'' was that most of the militant attitudes come from people who are fed up, tired, jaded and can't be ''bovvered!!'' She was saying bring on New Fleet to get rid of people like WW, and replace them with a new lease of life. Obviously there are many many crew (even maybe some bassa hardliners!) who do, do an excellent job day in day out, she is not saying get rid of them!

Anyway let's hope a solution to all this is found soon to help BA survive and help BA get back ''up there!''

[Watersidewonker]

Salmon: It seems a bit fishy that you spend so much time on here your so called company must be suffering having your so so called talents dedicated to this site. I suspect you are part of the BA team setup to feed the media I have seen it so many times.I can't understand anyone being so interested in an airline you swear not to use although that's just part of your cover story. BASSA are my union along with the 92.49% who voted with me have no trust in our management that's a simple fact so off you go and compile another drum beating post.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

@ watersidwonker .. would you please do us all a favour, and stop the personal insults and innuendo? There are bigger issues involved than your bigotry.
Thank you.

[midman]

Originally Posted by Watersidewonker

Salmon: It seems a bit fishy that you spend so much time on here your so called company must be suffering having your so so called talents dedicated to this site. I suspect you are part of the BA team setup to feed the media I have seen it so many times.I can't understand anyone being so interested in an airline you swear not to use although that's just part of your cover story. BASSA are my union along with the 92.49% who voted with me have no trust in our management that's a simple fact so off you go and compile another drum beating post.

WW, please refer to the paranoia post above.

(P.S. 92.5% x 83% = 77%, minus those who weren't legally entitled to vote.)

[Juan Tugoh]

Wonker,

so is BASSA the union ONLY for the 92.49% of the 80% of those who voted in the last ballot, or does it represent all its members? Trying to claim that 92.49% of the union voted for whatever you are currently spouting makes you look far less intelligent than you probably are, especially when the ballot was illegal. How many of the current members of the union actually voted yes to industrial action will never be known thanks to the stupid actions of principally Miss Malone who actively encouraged people to take actions that lead to the ballot being ruled illegal.

How many people will vote for a strike of an indeterminate length, knowing all the while there is NO public support for a strike, indeed remembering the public hatred heaped upon the CC community, is a matter of conjecture.

IF BASSA can run a legal ballot, and get a mandate AND get people on strike to force the company to reverse the imposition, what happens next? Where will the crew come from to man the aircraft? New Fleet perhaps?

In the meantime please try to stick to the debate and refrain from the insults - it makes you personally look less than smart and weakens your arguments immensely. The first sign of a lost debate is when someone tries to make it personal - every child in the playground knows this. Surely you are better than that.

[keel beam]

90 days

A Lurker, Ottergirl.

I think you will find that the company OR union can give notice to each other about cancelling contracts. 90 days seems right, though I cannot confirm.

The company can also say your job does not exist any more and they invite you to apply for the new position (if you are not successful you are made redundant). And has been mentioned a few times in this thread, it does happen, and has happened in my department a couple of times.

Whether the company can offer a position to a group of people with one set of conditions and to another group in the same job a different set of conditions, I would have to leave that to someone with a better understanding of employment law.

Rest assured, what ever happens, it is not going to be a pretty sight.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Regardless of the minutiae of percentages, it would still seem that there was [and still is?] a significant majority of BASSA members who voted for a strike.

Is it then a 'simple majority' of those who vote for strike action that trigers IA, or is there some cut-off percentage of the membership that has to be reached?

[pvmw]

well wonka - ur that unhappy - get a new job!

And therein lies his problem. Who would actually give someone with his attitude a job??

His will be a fight to the death, because if BA get rid of him it will be a life on the dole.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

And therein lies his problem. Who would actually give someone with his attitude a job??
His will be a fight to the death, because if BA get rid of him it will be a life on the dole.

Not necessary, not fair, and not accurate - and that doesn't take discussions anywhere either.

I have no difficulty with watersidewonker fighting for what he believes in [agreed T&Cs]. The validity of the case is obviously weakened by the fact that the intended T&Cs [one fewer crew, and the CSD assisting with service] works perfectly well with LGW crews. My only difficulty is understanding how causing severe/terminal damage to the company actually benefits him/her.

[HiFlyer14]

Wonker,

Some questions for you.

If BASSA are your union, can you please explain why they do not allow people who are AGAINST A STRIKE to post their views on either the BASSA forum or the CREWFORUM?

Do you not think that if people were allowed to put other, more reasonable views forward, that they would change the ballot percentage somewhat?

Also, knowing that Your Union deliberately acted illegally during the last ballot, do you trust them to act properly and within the law this time? Do you think that the rest of the voting members will still trust them?

I certainly would not risk going on strike, for a Union that has a HISTORY OF ACTING ILLEGALLY IN BALLOTS. Because if there is one hint of illegallity, YOU WILL BE SACKED. This time BA might not go for an injunction, they may just let you GO.

Just something I hope that you and others have considered before you vote so blindly again.

I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own view and not that of BA.

[Two-Tone-Blue]

Still hoping for an answer ...

Regardless of the minutiae of percentages, it would still seem that there was [and still is?] a significant majority of BASSA members who voted for a strike.
Is it then a 'simple majority' of those who vote for strike action that trigers IA, or is there some cut-off percentage of the membership that has to be reached?