British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Or maybe that's the only weapon left in BASSA's armoury?
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Precisely NN, as I alluded to in my earlier post, bassa (the self-servers) could be planning a strategy of a slow, lingering death, by a 1000 cuts.
Clever, if it wasn't so serious.
GF
Clever, if it wasn't so serious.
GF
Junior trash
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That's the last thing Willie needs.
This had got to be played out to its conclusion sooner rather than later because of the effect on forward bookings.
This had got to be played out to its conclusion sooner rather than later because of the effect on forward bookings.
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MrBernoulli,
That is correct. I'm not a member of unite/bassa/amicus
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Is that 'funny' Glamgirl, because you are/are not a member of BASSA (anymore)?
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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The Postal Ballot issue was always going to be "interesting", but I never expected it to go off the rails so quickly! Given the option between the union being very clever in incompetent, I know which I would choose.
Is this a completely internal ballot operation? Or is some external body operating it on behalf of the Union?
Is this a completely internal ballot operation? Or is some external body operating it on behalf of the Union?
Ah well, Glamgirl, BA now has it's ammunition, if it wishes to nip this strike ballot in the bud. But it may also wish BASSA to effect it's own death warrant by going ahead with a strike on the basis of an illegal ballot. I wonder which it is?
Almost certainly an outside agency running it on behalf of BASSA, but with BASSA's own membership lists/adresses etc. Buffoons ....
Is this a completely internal ballot operation? Or is some external body operating it on behalf of the Union?
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MrBernoulli,
Quote:
Is that 'funny' Glamgirl, because you are/are not a member of BASSA (anymore)?
That is correct. I'm not a member of unite/bassa/amicus
Gg
Quote:
Is that 'funny' Glamgirl, because you are/are not a member of BASSA (anymore)?
That is correct. I'm not a member of unite/bassa/amicus
Gg
Maybe you could provide Willie with the details and then let him use it as / if he sees fit.
Mind you, everything I've heard this week leads me to believe that BA now need BASSA to get a yes vote and call a strike. If BASSA limped away bleeding now, they may survive to see another year and another threatened strike. Alternatively, he can break the strike and have the militants (with two businesses, two degrees, loads of savings and who hate the job anyway) sacked and move BA on to a brighter future - with the PCC in place of BASSA.
Oh and to dispel a few myths on the BASSA Forum:
* 22 Flight Crew started and finished CC training this week, many more courses to come
* 40 Ground Staff started 20-day courses this week, many more to come
* The removal of staff travel from strikers is cast-iron (it's been checked out
)* BASSA's "216 volunteers" is a red herring, designed to flush out the real number. BA are keeping it secret - for the moment. But let's just say that BASSA should be concerned; we are quite replaceable because of the relatively short length of training required.
* BA are spending millions in preparation to break the strike - a bluff BASSA? I think not! Vote YES and you ARE going to have to strike. That comes with grave risks.
* The CAA are inspecting both FC and GS courses and are happy with the standards involved. They will also be on the "Scab" flights when they happen. They may have concerns and are justifiably keeping an eye on things. BUT these courses have the same standards as all other BA CC courses - if you aren't good enough, you won't pass.
* I'll be advising my friends NOT to strike and to vote NO. I'd like to see them have a job after this is all over. Whether they listen is up to them but they can't say I didn't warn them!
...and we've barely seen the tip of Willie's iceberg.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Is this a completely internal ballot operation? Or is some external body operating it on behalf of the Union?
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Cabin Crew – I demand that you strike...!
Cabin Crew – I demand that you strike...!
My anger at what I have recently heard is hard to measure, out of respect for this forum I will calm myself down as I type.
A BA CC returning from a trip said that “lots” (her words) of the crew on that occasion were stating that they intended to vote yes and then go sick. (“It’s illegal to sack me when I’m sick” –more on this later)
To those that are planning the same I demand that you strike. I disagree with the strike on just about every level that I can think of, but, I completely support your right to strike.
If you vote yes you are voting not for a strike to happen, but for YOU to strike. To do anything less and cower in your bedroom hiding behind a sick certificate (more on this later) says a lot about your character as a person, and it’s all bad.
If you vote yes you must get your T-shirt printed with a suitable slogan (I suggest “my employer is losing money hand over fist and just wants me to work a little harder to support it and all the other employees, but I won’t”), wear that T-shirt with pride along with your donkey jacket and get yourself to a picket line having lawfully exercised your right to withdraw your labour.
That's what voting yes means.
You understand the issues at hand, you have not taken one received position as the truth, and you have done some of your own research and established the facts in question, you have done this haven’t you?
Right, so go and strike with your head up high, it’s your right and I support that right.
However, if you vote yes and then call in sick, you are a disgrace, to your fellow union members, to all your colleagues, striking or not and lastly a disgrace to people all over the world that have fought for their rights, some by just writing a stern letter to their MP, others by setting themselves alight. – and you don’t have the character to participate in a strike that you have voted for – shame on you.
That being said let’s have a look at this “It’s illegal to sack me when I’m sick or on strike” nonsense shall we.
Your union answers this question by saying that “yes, it’s illegal”. They tend to end their answer there, but there is more to be said. It’s illegal for me to steal your TV from your home, I can still do it, I may be punished, you may feel victorious, but you are still down one telly...No Gok Wan for you tonight.
A very limited effort on your part will establish the following text as being the UK law as it stands currently, however unfair you think it is, it's the law (I happen to think it’s unfair myself, but at least I know it is the case)
My bold
The above applies if you are sacked, end of.... to summarise, you are out of work, you take employer to tribunal, you win, you get some cash, you are still out of work.
Vote yes ONLY TO STRIKE.
If you don’t believe me or simply don’t care and intend to do the sickness thing, when you present yourself to the doctor can I suggest one of the following ailments: -
No backbone, guts, spine, balls.
Yellowing of the skin
Weak character
Think hard, 2 seconds with a pen on that ballot could affect the rest of your working life.
Nuff said – good luck people.
*£66,200.00 - This figure changes yearly, I couldnt be bothered to go look at what it is now, I suggest you do though, as at best you will recieve a fraction of it - and you will still be out of work, did I mention that?
My anger at what I have recently heard is hard to measure, out of respect for this forum I will calm myself down as I type.
A BA CC returning from a trip said that “lots” (her words) of the crew on that occasion were stating that they intended to vote yes and then go sick. (“It’s illegal to sack me when I’m sick” –more on this later)
To those that are planning the same I demand that you strike. I disagree with the strike on just about every level that I can think of, but, I completely support your right to strike.
If you vote yes you are voting not for a strike to happen, but for YOU to strike. To do anything less and cower in your bedroom hiding behind a sick certificate (more on this later) says a lot about your character as a person, and it’s all bad.
If you vote yes you must get your T-shirt printed with a suitable slogan (I suggest “my employer is losing money hand over fist and just wants me to work a little harder to support it and all the other employees, but I won’t”), wear that T-shirt with pride along with your donkey jacket and get yourself to a picket line having lawfully exercised your right to withdraw your labour.
That's what voting yes means.
You understand the issues at hand, you have not taken one received position as the truth, and you have done some of your own research and established the facts in question, you have done this haven’t you?
Right, so go and strike with your head up high, it’s your right and I support that right.
However, if you vote yes and then call in sick, you are a disgrace, to your fellow union members, to all your colleagues, striking or not and lastly a disgrace to people all over the world that have fought for their rights, some by just writing a stern letter to their MP, others by setting themselves alight. – and you don’t have the character to participate in a strike that you have voted for – shame on you.
That being said let’s have a look at this “It’s illegal to sack me when I’m sick or on strike” nonsense shall we.
Your union answers this question by saying that “yes, it’s illegal”. They tend to end their answer there, but there is more to be said. It’s illegal for me to steal your TV from your home, I can still do it, I may be punished, you may feel victorious, but you are still down one telly...No Gok Wan for you tonight.
A very limited effort on your part will establish the following text as being the UK law as it stands currently, however unfair you think it is, it's the law (I happen to think it’s unfair myself, but at least I know it is the case)
My bold
If a Tribunal finds in favour of the employee it can order:
• Reinstatement - getting their job back with no loss of money or security. However, Tribunals rarely order reinstatement
• Engagement - getting another job with the same employer
• Compensation - a basic award calculated in a similar way to a redundancy plus a compensatory award to compensate the employee for the financial losses incurred as a result of the dismissal
The maximum compensation award is currently £66,200.00* (and updated every year), but unless the employee is a very high earner, it is rare for Tribunals to award this amount. Most will award for loss of earnings to the date of hearing plus a limited amount to compensate for future loss.
Reinstatement and re-engagement are rarely ordered by Tribunals.
Compensation may be increased or reduced if either party failed to follow the new ACAS Code of Practice 1: Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures. Visit www.acas.org.uk for the Code of Practice
• Reinstatement - getting their job back with no loss of money or security. However, Tribunals rarely order reinstatement
• Engagement - getting another job with the same employer
• Compensation - a basic award calculated in a similar way to a redundancy plus a compensatory award to compensate the employee for the financial losses incurred as a result of the dismissal
The maximum compensation award is currently £66,200.00* (and updated every year), but unless the employee is a very high earner, it is rare for Tribunals to award this amount. Most will award for loss of earnings to the date of hearing plus a limited amount to compensate for future loss.
Reinstatement and re-engagement are rarely ordered by Tribunals.
Compensation may be increased or reduced if either party failed to follow the new ACAS Code of Practice 1: Disciplinary and Grievance Procedures. Visit www.acas.org.uk for the Code of Practice
Vote yes ONLY TO STRIKE.
If you don’t believe me or simply don’t care and intend to do the sickness thing, when you present yourself to the doctor can I suggest one of the following ailments: -
No backbone, guts, spine, balls.
Yellowing of the skin
Weak character
Think hard, 2 seconds with a pen on that ballot could affect the rest of your working life.
Nuff said – good luck people.
*£66,200.00 - This figure changes yearly, I couldnt be bothered to go look at what it is now, I suggest you do though, as at best you will recieve a fraction of it - and you will still be out of work, did I mention that?
Last edited by Snas; 27th Jan 2010 at 16:12. Reason: Added bold to the "if either party" bit - its important..!
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BA's lack of response to the "216" claim re-inforces the suspicion that BA are now quite content to see a strike. If they wanted to head it off, they could have provided information to discourage a potential yes vote. They haven't.
The people I'm beginning to feel really sorry for are those on good packages who will vote no, and will break any strike if need be. When BA change all the contracts as an outcome of any strike, they too are going to come off badly.
The people I'm beginning to feel really sorry for are those on good packages who will vote no, and will break any strike if need be. When BA change all the contracts as an outcome of any strike, they too are going to come off badly.
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The tone of the posts on here is absolutely fascinating. Whereas before the proposed Christmas strike there was a certain air of impending doom there is now a much more positive feel in the air. IMHO this is down to 2 factors:
1. The birth of the PCC. CC members can now see a way forward once Bassa is vanquished.
2. The briiliant idea to request & then train volunteers from throughout BA. This has given ALL employees a chance to participate in saving this great company.
Well done & good luck to you all.
1. The birth of the PCC. CC members can now see a way forward once Bassa is vanquished.
2. The briiliant idea to request & then train volunteers from throughout BA. This has given ALL employees a chance to participate in saving this great company.
Well done & good luck to you all.
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Yes, and I notice on my ballot paper (to which I put a very large X in the NO box within a nano second of opening it) the question is just that: "Are you prepared to strike?"
No indication of what you are voting to strike for, of course, just like last time. Just nice and ambiguous, so you can make up your own mind whether it's about "imposition", New Fleet, pay freeze, size of Willies salary etc.
The accompanying newsletter, of course seeks to muddy the waters still further by rehashing a list of all the old issues.
Just to be clear, if you vote YES, it is simply about the Company making a unilateral decision (after 9 months of unproductive negociation)to reduce crew compliments. NOTHING ELSE. NOT any of the other issues.
So for BASSA to "win", BA would have to find 1000 crew to replace the ones that have now left. How's that going to happen without increasing OUR costs at a time when we can least afford it? (Not via BASSA's laughable suggestions, that's for sure.)
And I say OUR costs, because BA is OUR airline, not Willie's, or BASSA's or any single individual person or entity, but all of ours. What's bad for BA is bad for us. And that is the point that so many people seem to miss when they say "he just want to cut costs."
Actually, there is one way Willie could bring back crew compliments to what they were and still save money. He could recruit 1000 new crew to New Fleet and transfer all the work that couldn't be covered by the existing fleets when back up to the previous crewing levels. Oh, you don't like idea either.
Be careful what you wish for. Turkeys and Christmas and all that.
Don't vote YES for an unwinnable strike.
No indication of what you are voting to strike for, of course, just like last time. Just nice and ambiguous, so you can make up your own mind whether it's about "imposition", New Fleet, pay freeze, size of Willies salary etc.
The accompanying newsletter, of course seeks to muddy the waters still further by rehashing a list of all the old issues.
Just to be clear, if you vote YES, it is simply about the Company making a unilateral decision (after 9 months of unproductive negociation)to reduce crew compliments. NOTHING ELSE. NOT any of the other issues.
So for BASSA to "win", BA would have to find 1000 crew to replace the ones that have now left. How's that going to happen without increasing OUR costs at a time when we can least afford it? (Not via BASSA's laughable suggestions, that's for sure.)
And I say OUR costs, because BA is OUR airline, not Willie's, or BASSA's or any single individual person or entity, but all of ours. What's bad for BA is bad for us. And that is the point that so many people seem to miss when they say "he just want to cut costs."
Actually, there is one way Willie could bring back crew compliments to what they were and still save money. He could recruit 1000 new crew to New Fleet and transfer all the work that couldn't be covered by the existing fleets when back up to the previous crewing levels. Oh, you don't like idea either.
Be careful what you wish for. Turkeys and Christmas and all that.
Don't vote YES for an unwinnable strike.
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Papillon,
I think the strike breaking no voters will be accepting the deal as on the table from BA right now. ie ave allowances etc etc
strikers will be out on their butts, ciao.
The new recruits will quickly be put on new fleet contracts!
As for the numbers in each group?
I think the strike breaking no voters will be accepting the deal as on the table from BA right now. ie ave allowances etc etc
strikers will be out on their butts, ciao.
The new recruits will quickly be put on new fleet contracts!
As for the numbers in each group?
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Originally Posted by Papillon
The people I'm beginning to feel really sorry for are those on good packages who will vote no, and will break any strike if need be. When BA change all the contracts as an outcome of any strike, they too are going to come off badly.
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It would be legally difficult, if not impossible to separate those who went on strike with those who did not, once everything was over.
I fully agree that BA would be keen to try to look after those who worked through, but changing terms and conditions, changing contracts, would apply to all staff, not just those who walked out. Non-contractual issues such as staff travel are different things entirely, and can be targeted. Based on the clear lack of guarantees for anything should a strike take place, those changes would be across the board.
I fully agree that BA would be keen to try to look after those who worked through, but changing terms and conditions, changing contracts, would apply to all staff, not just those who walked out. Non-contractual issues such as staff travel are different things entirely, and can be targeted. Based on the clear lack of guarantees for anything should a strike take place, those changes would be across the board.
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some advice please....
Received my ballot form today and it is on its way back with a no vote (just like last time). Now, I am completely fed up with BASSA and their 'spin' and really want to leave the union now I have casted my vote.... however,.... sometimes it is better to keep your enemies close as they say.... should I maybe stay in this 'sect' so I can at least keep an eye on all the spin they feed their members.... and come in to work during the potential strike as a BASSA member just to show them a point.....???
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should I maybe stay in this 'sect' so I can at least keep an eye on all the spin they feed their members
Firstly their spin tends to spill out of their world and into the real one from so many sources I dont see you escaping it if you wanted to really.
Secondly, falling membership numbers will tell them they are on the wrong track better then anything else.
Just my pennies worth...