British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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There is some interesting stuff around on workplace dispute resolution. This paragraph in particular caught my eye, as it's almost exactly what is happening in BA.
Perhaps BA management are using the wrong approach.
While delegating decisions to employees is often a positive management practice, allowing employee disputants to control the process for resolving conflicts they have raised has many pitfalls, particularly where their dispute is with management. Doing so allows decisions concerning the resolution process to be controlled by individuals who have interests that are different than those of the organization or other individuals in it, and who may not have the appropriate information, expertise, or resources to pursue creative or non-traditional approaches.
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To me as a colleugue it's just sad to see that it seems to difficult to understand that if we (BA) would like to compete , the cost of us has to be in the same level as competition since the rest is priced equal to both!(planes ,fuel,spare parts.......etc)
I can understand it's difficult to give up certain things but I've done it too bearing in mind that if I don't want it I can leave but I would not like to be forced to leave because one group of colleagues doesn't want to reason and rather bring our company to the ground.
P.S.: I would like to see any company somewhere in between a dictatorship and democracy , how could you ever run a company if it was true democracy.
And for Romans44 if you don't like threats , youve must have found out by now that neither does WW because it seems to be BASSA's main tool!
I can understand it's difficult to give up certain things but I've done it too bearing in mind that if I don't want it I can leave but I would not like to be forced to leave because one group of colleagues doesn't want to reason and rather bring our company to the ground.
P.S.: I would like to see any company somewhere in between a dictatorship and democracy , how could you ever run a company if it was true democracy.
And for Romans44 if you don't like threats , youve must have found out by now that neither does WW because it seems to be BASSA's main tool!
Perhaps BA management are using the wrong approach.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Oh dear....
Just a meander on to the Bassa website and it makes for grim reading.
Apparently Justice Cox is flying with us today to Geneva and some crew are 'looking out for her' (their words not mine). Apparently some of the crew on her flight are going to wish a 'merry christmas' sarcastically and other stuff
.
If you don't believe me go over and have a look.
BA seriously needs to rein these people in.
Just a meander on to the Bassa website and it makes for grim reading.
Apparently Justice Cox is flying with us today to Geneva and some crew are 'looking out for her' (their words not mine). Apparently some of the crew on her flight are going to wish a 'merry christmas' sarcastically and other stuff
. If you don't believe me go over and have a look.
BA seriously needs to rein these people in.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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As an employee I was so disillusioned with the way the union handled this whole process from early this year that I resigned and agreed to continue to work.
Henkybaby found that people are still disenfranchised, something needs to be addressed. I think it's too ingrained and whilst sacking a load of crew who strike may have removed some, that wouldn't change the way that 50% still feel.
Henkybaby found that people are still disenfranchised, something needs to be addressed. I think it's too ingrained and whilst sacking a load of crew who strike may have removed some, that wouldn't change the way that 50% still feel.
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I think it's too ingrained and whilst sacking a load of crew who strike may have removed some, that wouldn't change the way that 50% still feel.
If you took these negative, protectionist moaners out of the positions of far too much power which they've acquired over the years through spineless management, and let CC and management actually engage each other in meaningful debate, you might get somewhere.
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Thanks BASSA - BA has been trying to get the disruption agreement released for the past few days due to the snow but Miss Malone has repeatedly said no.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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BA has been trying to get the disruption agreement released for the past few days due to the snow but Miss Malone has repeatedly said no
Why? Because it will nothing but increase the resolve of Willie to destroy the c***** that she and her cohorts represent.
If she thinks that this petulant display will win the day, I would suggest that she may flex her muscle and win this battle but the war is made up of many battles and there will only ever be one winner.
Bring it on Willie.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Henky,
With due respect the time for negotiation has passed. Issue them all notice. re interview, shut down if necessary. Its beyond repair. At risk of being banned for stereotyping it needs to be said that on the CF the most malicious posts seem to come from the male Gay community. However the overall impression is of generally precious,camp hissy fit adolescent kids who have been badly warped by their more mature (thats in age not mental reasoning) union bosses.
Reading the posts I can see no way forward for these people. They hate BA, passengers, working for a living and are force fed a bunch of barrack room lawyer nonsense , including the ramifications (or lack of) for their posts.
Am I wrong to sterotype?. Maybe but look at the language...Vile, hideous, Villie,twunt, the judicious use of txt spk and the hissy trivial nature of the replies. I see this behaviour in one community over others. Its not a sterotype its a fact. Poisionous , vinditive, nasty , petty selfish, mentally immature and oodles of drama dahling but short on facts.
Sack the f--king lot and lets move on.
It would be amusing in a cat fight but not in the struggle for the livlihoods of tens of thousands.
Sack em, draw a line, reinterview.
With due respect the time for negotiation has passed. Issue them all notice. re interview, shut down if necessary. Its beyond repair. At risk of being banned for stereotyping it needs to be said that on the CF the most malicious posts seem to come from the male Gay community. However the overall impression is of generally precious,camp hissy fit adolescent kids who have been badly warped by their more mature (thats in age not mental reasoning) union bosses.
Reading the posts I can see no way forward for these people. They hate BA, passengers, working for a living and are force fed a bunch of barrack room lawyer nonsense , including the ramifications (or lack of) for their posts.
Am I wrong to sterotype?. Maybe but look at the language...Vile, hideous, Villie,twunt, the judicious use of txt spk and the hissy trivial nature of the replies. I see this behaviour in one community over others. Its not a sterotype its a fact. Poisionous , vinditive, nasty , petty selfish, mentally immature and oodles of drama dahling but short on facts.
Sack the f--king lot and lets move on.
It would be amusing in a cat fight but not in the struggle for the livlihoods of tens of thousands.
Sack em, draw a line, reinterview.
Join Date: Feb 2008
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There's going to have to be a time of reckoning for everyone pretty soon I think.
At the moment, it seems that we're just going to have to struggle through until the court case in Feb, while also dealing with the re-ballot. Either of those, or both, will proove to be the watershed in all of this. I have to say that I fear the outcome, as I see the point of no return getting closer by the day.
I don't know about others, but personally I'd just like this all to be sorted asap. If it takes drastic action by the company, then so be it. The "no no no" and anti-BA stance has simply gone on far too long now, and has resulted in far too many of my colleagues holding what I consider to be misplaced loyalties. To my mind, such people really do need to step-back, take a good long, hard look at themselves, decide where their loyalties lie and make a decision to either side with BA and continue working here and truly get themselves onboard with our recovery, or simply leave and try to find a situation in which they can continue to work in the chaos and uncertainty they seemingly desire.
We know that Union dues are dedecuted from salary, and that the company therefore will be seeing how many are leaving the Unions. At what stage will management decide that the numbers are large enough to consider by-passing the Unions all together? I know that legalities preclude an employer taking action based purely on union membership, but surely, when a large proportion of that membership displays no qualms in expressing desire to actually harm the employer, there must be a way around that?
Those of us who have left the unions, are now effectively voiceless, so will need at some stage to organise ourselves. Should that come from ourselves, or will the company make some moves to recognise us? To my fellow non-unionists: I'd urge that if you haven't already done so, email your thoughts to BF. I did, and received a very positive response.
The 90 days notice, and the fallout from it, are probably looking more attractive to the company as each day passes. Unless anyone can come-up with another final solution to this war, then I would now support the company in taking this option. Yes there'll be consequences, but I'd rather deal personally with those than be stuck in this no-mans-land, with the risk of being caught in the crossfire.
At the moment, it seems that we're just going to have to struggle through until the court case in Feb, while also dealing with the re-ballot. Either of those, or both, will proove to be the watershed in all of this. I have to say that I fear the outcome, as I see the point of no return getting closer by the day.
I don't know about others, but personally I'd just like this all to be sorted asap. If it takes drastic action by the company, then so be it. The "no no no" and anti-BA stance has simply gone on far too long now, and has resulted in far too many of my colleagues holding what I consider to be misplaced loyalties. To my mind, such people really do need to step-back, take a good long, hard look at themselves, decide where their loyalties lie and make a decision to either side with BA and continue working here and truly get themselves onboard with our recovery, or simply leave and try to find a situation in which they can continue to work in the chaos and uncertainty they seemingly desire.
We know that Union dues are dedecuted from salary, and that the company therefore will be seeing how many are leaving the Unions. At what stage will management decide that the numbers are large enough to consider by-passing the Unions all together? I know that legalities preclude an employer taking action based purely on union membership, but surely, when a large proportion of that membership displays no qualms in expressing desire to actually harm the employer, there must be a way around that?
Those of us who have left the unions, are now effectively voiceless, so will need at some stage to organise ourselves. Should that come from ourselves, or will the company make some moves to recognise us? To my fellow non-unionists: I'd urge that if you haven't already done so, email your thoughts to BF. I did, and received a very positive response.
The 90 days notice, and the fallout from it, are probably looking more attractive to the company as each day passes. Unless anyone can come-up with another final solution to this war, then I would now support the company in taking this option. Yes there'll be consequences, but I'd rather deal personally with those than be stuck in this no-mans-land, with the risk of being caught in the crossfire.
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One of the latest missives from BASSA,
Based on this drivel the LGW crews must be dropping like flies. Whats that I hear you say...there not...How can that be. ...Good for the goose etc.
Clearly athinly veiled intruction to disrupt the flow of a flight.
The moonies would be proud of this.
Go on sue me you muppets
Many members have called into the office over health and safety concerns
with the reduced crewing levels and changes to service routines, all your
concerns have been raised or taken to the relevant health and safety
meetings with BA.
On points 1-4 complete an incident form if you believe there could be a
potential affect to your health and safety or there has been and affect to
your health and safety during the flight, take a copy for yourself and
BASSA.
BASSA need a copy of all your incident forms so we can continue to prove
to BA the un-safe practises that have been imposed upon us.
1) Covering of rear doors 747 during safety briefing. For years it
has been drummed into crew that we must cover all pairs of doors, surly
this was for safety reasons? Now suddenly this doesn't matter! BA have
NOT carried out any risk assessments.
2) Reduced crew due to sickness. 747 carrying out the safety demo
twice to cover the upper deck, clearly this will take extra time if
required you MUST delay departure.
3) Security searches. These MUST be carried out as per your JPM
requirements, with the imposed new crewing levels this will obviously
take longer to complete, delay boarding if necessary. BA have NOT carried
out any time trials to ensure these can be completed as required.
4) Rest Breaks. Ensure you receive your required rest this is a legal
requirement. If this is not possible the service will have to be reduced
accordingly and complete an incident form.
DO NOT PUT YOURSELF, COLLEAGUES OR PASSENGERS AT RISK
Based on this drivel the LGW crews must be dropping like flies. Whats that I hear you say...there not...How can that be. ...Good for the goose etc.
Clearly athinly veiled intruction to disrupt the flow of a flight.
The moonies would be proud of this.
Go on sue me you muppets
Many members have called into the office over health and safety concerns
with the reduced crewing levels and changes to service routines, all your
concerns have been raised or taken to the relevant health and safety
meetings with BA.
On points 1-4 complete an incident form if you believe there could be a
potential affect to your health and safety or there has been and affect to
your health and safety during the flight, take a copy for yourself and
BASSA.
BASSA need a copy of all your incident forms so we can continue to prove
to BA the un-safe practises that have been imposed upon us.
1) Covering of rear doors 747 during safety briefing. For years it
has been drummed into crew that we must cover all pairs of doors, surly
this was for safety reasons? Now suddenly this doesn't matter! BA have
NOT carried out any risk assessments.
2) Reduced crew due to sickness. 747 carrying out the safety demo
twice to cover the upper deck, clearly this will take extra time if
required you MUST delay departure.
3) Security searches. These MUST be carried out as per your JPM
requirements, with the imposed new crewing levels this will obviously
take longer to complete, delay boarding if necessary. BA have NOT carried
out any time trials to ensure these can be completed as required.
4) Rest Breaks. Ensure you receive your required rest this is a legal
requirement. If this is not possible the service will have to be reduced
accordingly and complete an incident form.
DO NOT PUT YOURSELF, COLLEAGUES OR PASSENGERS AT RISK
Join Date: Mar 2008
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If that's the way BASSA play things, it's no wonder there's an IR problem.
Still, when BA is grounded and the pax all go away [never to return] everything will be wonderful.
To the sane/adult members of CC - good luck for 2010. I think you will need it.
Still, when BA is grounded and the pax all go away [never to return] everything will be wonderful.
To the sane/adult members of CC - good luck for 2010. I think you will need it.
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Fork Handles
As you mentioned muppets in your post - you are making yourself out to be one as LGW crews do not operate the 747!!!!! The posting on the BASSA site is referring to the fact that if you are operating whilst missing a Crew member through downroute illness - ie (another) one down - then the safety demo will have to be played again for the benefit of the UD customers otherwise we could not maintain adequate door coverage.
One of the latest missives from BASSA,
Based on this drivel the LGW crews must be dropping like flies. Whats that I hear you say...there not...How can that be. ...Good for the goose etc.
Clearly athinly veiled intruction to disrupt the flow of a flight.
The moonies would be proud of this.
Go on sue me you muppets
One of the latest missives from BASSA,
Based on this drivel the LGW crews must be dropping like flies. Whats that I hear you say...there not...How can that be. ...Good for the goose etc.
Clearly athinly veiled intruction to disrupt the flow of a flight.
The moonies would be proud of this.
Go on sue me you muppets
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Two-Tone-Blue
I read your earlier posting where you slated the crew and made a comment along the lines that the crew are on board "to serve you" - that of course is a secondary role - we are on board to do this...
YouTube - Evacuating British Airways BA288 at Phoenix Sky Harbor
YouTube - Evacuating British Airways BA288 at Phoenix Sky Harbor
Unless you folk use the 'quotes' function, or at least put quotation marks around text you have cut and pasted (and attribute it to it's original author) then no-one is going to know the text isn't yours!
And while I'm on the subject, if you wish to refer to a previous posting, there is no need to re-quote an entire posting. Cut and paste the necessary sentence or two, and use the quotes function, or quotation marks. It is quite simple. Either:
or:
"A Christmas Carol (sub-titled "In Prose. Being A Ghost Story of Christmas") is a novella by English author Charles Dickens about miserly, cold, unfeeling, old and curmudgeonly Ebenezer Scrooge ...."
is acceptable, but you must make the effort.
New Poster, your posting makes it look like you intended to say:
But I believe you were actually quoting someone else - correct?
And while I'm on the subject, if you wish to refer to a previous posting, there is no need to re-quote an entire posting. Cut and paste the necessary sentence or two, and use the quotes function, or quotation marks. It is quite simple. Either:
A Christmas Carol (sub-titled "In Prose. Being A Ghost Story of Christmas") is a novella by English author Charles Dickens about miserly, cold, unfeeling, old and curmudgeonly Ebenezer Scrooge ....
"A Christmas Carol (sub-titled "In Prose. Being A Ghost Story of Christmas") is a novella by English author Charles Dickens about miserly, cold, unfeeling, old and curmudgeonly Ebenezer Scrooge ...."
is acceptable, but you must make the effort.
New Poster, your posting makes it look like you intended to say:
Go on sue me you muppets
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Hi Welshboy1982
I'd offer odds of 100%.
The attempted strike will hasten the introduction of the crews worst fears. If bassa are going to strike anyway then BA will think they have nothing to lose & will change everything.
BA will also need to convince joe public that they can book with us in the future without another strike ruining their plans. BA's cashflow demands it.
I'd offer odds of 100%.
The attempted strike will hasten the introduction of the crews worst fears. If bassa are going to strike anyway then BA will think they have nothing to lose & will change everything.
BA will also need to convince joe public that they can book with us in the future without another strike ruining their plans. BA's cashflow demands it.
Last edited by Strimmerdriver; 23rd Dec 2009 at 13:36.