How many UM's are too many?
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How many UM's are too many?
Recent occurence on one of the two big Aussie domestic airlines. Out of the 211 pax on a B767, 34 were Unaccompanied Minors (8 Flight Attendants). This subject as a whole appears to be a growing concern not just to Flight Attendants but Ground Staff alike. Too many?, what do you think?.
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I couldn't agree with you more!!! I recently did a flight (767 as well where we had approx 20 UMs) and again we were 8 crew. I personall think there comes a point when enough is enough not just for their sake when ti comes to safety but for the other pax as well. I have recently put this question to the powers that be because I do not know what the "official" stance is but I do await the anser with interest. As soon as I know more I will post it and maybe we can compare notes on the subject.Hmmm 
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Hi BAP, welcome to PPRUNE, haven't been here all that long myself, but know quite a few who have.
I too have contacted the powers that be 'down under', had one response so far and just awaiting another. Maybe there is no 'rule', maybe they look at a plane load of UM's in the same way as if a school group chartered the A/C. I'll let you know.
I too have contacted the powers that be 'down under', had one response so far and just awaiting another. Maybe there is no 'rule', maybe they look at a plane load of UM's in the same way as if a school group chartered the A/C. I'll let you know.
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A Flying Mum is a staff member who is responsible solely for the unmins.
Take them thru to departure, sit with them on the flight etc. CX provide the return ticket and it used to be overnight accommodation before you return.
I was asked to do that a few times but hey, no way would I sit on a flight with the offspring of CX staff!!
Personally on this subject I see no way how in this day and age of single parent families etc you can limit the number of unmins on a flight.
Take them thru to departure, sit with them on the flight etc. CX provide the return ticket and it used to be overnight accommodation before you return.
I was asked to do that a few times but hey, no way would I sit on a flight with the offspring of CX staff!!
Personally on this subject I see no way how in this day and age of single parent families etc you can limit the number of unmins on a flight.
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Damsel,
The increasing single parent demographics may make it a bigger commercial problem, but the real argument must revolve around the safety argument: are UMs a problem because:
We have rules about ABPs and the physically and mentally impaired that presumably were based on the same questions. It certainly does not seem unreasonable to consider regulatory limits on the number of UMs.
I like the "Flying Mum" concept because presumably the parent contributes some sort of premium for the airline to provide, on safety grounds, an apropriate level of supervision without affecting the primary role of the cabin crew. It may be that there is a general age/size cut-off that works. Good question for the regulators.
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Stay Alive,
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by 4dogs (edited 01 September 1999).]
The increasing single parent demographics may make it a bigger commercial problem, but the real argument must revolve around the safety argument: are UMs a problem because:
We have rules about ABPs and the physically and mentally impaired that presumably were based on the same questions. It certainly does not seem unreasonable to consider regulatory limits on the number of UMs.
I like the "Flying Mum" concept because presumably the parent contributes some sort of premium for the airline to provide, on safety grounds, an apropriate level of supervision without affecting the primary role of the cabin crew. It may be that there is a general age/size cut-off that works. Good question for the regulators.
------------------
Stay Alive,
[email protected]
[This message has been edited by 4dogs (edited 01 September 1999).]
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Hey guys after much discussion I actually found out that we do indeed have a similar sort of system that comes into effect as soon as as we have 5-6 UMs but there is still no maximum number which I think is ridiculous for the very reasons stated above. Safety being the most important!!! So are we ever gonna have this sort of Standing Order amongst the airlines or will it be like all other procedures in that we need an accident of some sort to realise the potential dangers in the current practives before somebody realise that we should change or improve the status quo!! Hmmm
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Have now received responces to my concerns from the two main safety authorities in Oz.
Surprise Surprise, there are no regulations governing this area, it is left to individual airline policy. Yeh sure! empty seats don't make money etc. etc.
I was also told that there was no factual information that would indicate a major concern in this area, although anecdotal evidence suggests a valid concern. Instances of large numbers of UM's can be provided by FA's or Ground Staff by submitting a confidential report. But by then it could be too late!. I don't think too many parents or guardians would understand that the FA (who has just accepted responsibility of their child), just couldn't look after them all in the event of an accident.
Surprise Surprise, there are no regulations governing this area, it is left to individual airline policy. Yeh sure! empty seats don't make money etc. etc.
I was also told that there was no factual information that would indicate a major concern in this area, although anecdotal evidence suggests a valid concern. Instances of large numbers of UM's can be provided by FA's or Ground Staff by submitting a confidential report. But by then it could be too late!. I don't think too many parents or guardians would understand that the FA (who has just accepted responsibility of their child), just couldn't look after them all in the event of an accident.
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Something I find really worrying about having UM's on board is that they are still being seated next to adult males; I've just got back from a trip where I've had to move kids to somewhere more appropriate (& no it wasn't the hold!). Moving the UM's isn't a problem, but trying to tell the pax next to the kid that the UM is being moved because he may just be a child molester can be challenging!
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4dogs has mentioned the physically impaired pax in this discussion about UM's, both require carefull consideration and attention when travelling. As a result of similar concerns as expressed here, one regional airline has (but I don't believe they are the first) recently introduced briefing books with LARGE print on the left page for those who need it and Braille instructions on the right page for those who need that.
As to limiting the number of UM's on board, the Regulatory Authority does have set limits on the number of infants that can be carried on any given flight, but I am unaware of any similar limitations on UM's.
ding
As to limiting the number of UM's on board, the Regulatory Authority does have set limits on the number of infants that can be carried on any given flight, but I am unaware of any similar limitations on UM's.
ding
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Dear SussexAirwaysPurser,
Now that we know that you consider all males to be potential child molesters, does that mean that all females are safe from these tendencies?
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Stay Alive,
[email protected]
Now that we know that you consider all males to be potential child molesters, does that mean that all females are safe from these tendencies?
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Stay Alive,
[email protected]
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WHOOOAAAAHHHHH!!!!!! Calm down people!!!! I agree that the ruling may appear sexist because we are assuming that the UM's are at a greater risk sitting next to a male passenger than they are if the passenger were female. What you have to remember though is that the ruling was made in reference to the fact (again this may be sexist) that male passengers are physically stronger than famale ones and so could more easily coerce the unknowing little UM sitting beside them. Unfair? Yes maybe but at the end of the day we have to look after the UM's in our care to the best of our ability. And unfortunately like all sensitive issues means we are sooner or later going to tread on someones toes. Sorry guys but shouldn't take it personally ... just think how you would feel if it was your kids travelling. The kids have to sit somewhere and the decision was made that it would be in their best interests to sit next to the female passengers. "May your night-stops be long and your allowances plentiful!!!"
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OK!, I understand the reason behind the ruling!, but SussexAirwaysPurser, you're coming across as though you think it is done deliberately or without thought. As a male who travels Space Available on a regular basis, are you saying that I should not be onloaded just because the only seat available on the flight is next to a UM, or that the flight be possibly delayed while pax are moved around so that I'm not sitting next to the UM?. Of course not. I'm just trying to point out that in SOME circumstances, it is unavoidable.
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Morning all! Lordy, didn't expect such a vociferous reaction to my comments.... As a kid I spent nearly 12 years being an UNMIN 3-4 times a year to Lagos & Barbados (you've got to take the rough with the smooth!) during school holidays & I remember that even as I got older I felt much more comfortable with either a woman or a family sat next to me. Before flying I did also work on check in for a year & have a great deal of sympathy with our ground based colleagues....they really do deal with some **** at check in & at the gates, and a relatively small matter like this can get overlooked when a delay or other more important factors are in the offing.
Anyway I'm off to bed folks......
PS I meant no sexism whatsoever by my comments..I'm a guy myself. Unfortunately there are a few sick people out there, the majority of whom are male & you don't hear of too many Myra Hindley/Rose West types. thankfull
Anyway I'm off to bed folks......
PS I meant no sexism whatsoever by my comments..I'm a guy myself. Unfortunately there are a few sick people out there, the majority of whom are male & you don't hear of too many Myra Hindley/Rose West types. thankfull
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Just put the little brat in my jumpseat. He'll be safe and sound there with me as captain watching over him (slurp, salivate, psychotic smile).
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Slasher. "Joey you like gladiator fights? Ever seen a grown man naked?"
