When do WE rest and eat?
Guest
Posts: n/a
WCF, maybe I am missing something here but why are you picking on the pilots? i don't think it is their fault that you guy's don't have the time to eat.
Talk to your boss or find a job inthe executive aviation. That will give you time to eat!
Good luck!
Talk to your boss or find a job inthe executive aviation. That will give you time to eat!
Good luck!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Can I please get this straight?
I am NOT picking on the pilots - I am new to this board, I do not know who is, or is not a pilot, unless they state it!
I am simply trying to get other cabin crews' opinions as to whether or not they agree that we should have PROPER designated breaks.
A lot of other crew in my company are in full agreement with me, I'm simply trying to ascertain if crew in general are.
That is all
I am NOT picking on the pilots - I am new to this board, I do not know who is, or is not a pilot, unless they state it!
I am simply trying to get other cabin crews' opinions as to whether or not they agree that we should have PROPER designated breaks.
A lot of other crew in my company are in full agreement with me, I'm simply trying to ascertain if crew in general are.
That is all
Guest
Posts: n/a
WCF, it would be very difficult to lay down precise rules to allow cabin crew to have a break.
Yes, it is highly desirable that you have one. No, nobody in their right minds (if they think for one moment about the possible consequences) should expect you to carry on non-stop for 10 hours.
Any CSD/Purser/No1 should have developed sufficient team management expertise to be able to sort it out. Team working should be able to accommodate this.
However, there are sufficient unknowns and possible developments that may not make it possible. ("Can someone else please give them an emergency brief? I'm on my break").
Not all airlines work the same. No two teams of aircrew work quite the same. If you have a problem within your company, I suggest you sort it out with your Cabin Services Manager. If you have no joy there, contact your Flight Safety Officer. But I don't think that you will find enough commonality here to conduct a campaign through PPRuNe.
Yes, it is highly desirable that you have one. No, nobody in their right minds (if they think for one moment about the possible consequences) should expect you to carry on non-stop for 10 hours.
Any CSD/Purser/No1 should have developed sufficient team management expertise to be able to sort it out. Team working should be able to accommodate this.
However, there are sufficient unknowns and possible developments that may not make it possible. ("Can someone else please give them an emergency brief? I'm on my break").
Not all airlines work the same. No two teams of aircrew work quite the same. If you have a problem within your company, I suggest you sort it out with your Cabin Services Manager. If you have no joy there, contact your Flight Safety Officer. But I don't think that you will find enough commonality here to conduct a campaign through PPRuNe.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well, thank you all for your contributions. I can see, (as Goldie says), that it's no use trying to drum up support for this on a wide scale basis - people seem perfectly content to carry on as they are.
I will contain my efforts within my own company, where I am sure of support.
So, I will sign off this thread
ps This is the third airline I've worked for, and the other two have been just as bad: I'd like to know what companies those of you who are satisfied work for
I will contain my efforts within my own company, where I am sure of support.
So, I will sign off this thread
ps This is the third airline I've worked for, and the other two have been just as bad: I'd like to know what companies those of you who are satisfied work for
Guest
Posts: n/a
WCF, did you actually read what people posted? If not, don't go off in a huff - go back and actually read what was written.
Conditions vary from one airline to another, from one aircraft type to another, from one route to another. Different CSD's run their cabins different ways. Different airlines have more (or less) enlightened views and procedures from another.
You cannot legislate for such as this. It would be so full of holes the end result would be both a nonsense, and unworkable.
Stop whingeing that people here aren't supporting you, and go talk to the people who can really make a difference. Do something for yourself, instead of expecting other people to sort it out for you.
Conditions vary from one airline to another, from one aircraft type to another, from one route to another. Different CSD's run their cabins different ways. Different airlines have more (or less) enlightened views and procedures from another.
You cannot legislate for such as this. It would be so full of holes the end result would be both a nonsense, and unworkable.
Stop whingeing that people here aren't supporting you, and go talk to the people who can really make a difference. Do something for yourself, instead of expecting other people to sort it out for you.
Guest
Posts: n/a
WCF...I can see by your 8 posts that you are quite new here....
Let me give you a quick briefing darling
First at all the idea of having a forum is to exchange ideas and information, and why not...have a laugh (sorry but I have a bit of a sense of humor and I can't stop it )
Second, don't get upset if you don't agree with what other people think
Third, we are just telling you how things work in our airlines, or how we manage to eat and rest.
I don't think you could possibly go to your managers with a print out of this topic and tell them :"look what other people do or think"
If you have that problem in your airline..that's the place for you to sort it out.
I've been flying for a quite long while now, and have done all sorts...long haule, medium and short....and have to be honest and say that yours is a problem that had hardly affected me.
Maybe follow HM advice...go back and read what people said, and take some ideas from there.
We can't really give you a proper advice, as we don't know how things work in your airline...and because of that we can't even give you the solution of your problems. It's your manager responsability to do it, not your fellow crewmembers on PPRuNe
As I said we can just exchange information and ideas here....and I believe you had quite a few points of view about it now.
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*************************Happy Landings!
*************************
Let me give you a quick briefing darling
First at all the idea of having a forum is to exchange ideas and information, and why not...have a laugh (sorry but I have a bit of a sense of humor and I can't stop it
)Second, don't get upset if you don't agree with what other people think
Third, we are just telling you how things work in our airlines, or how we manage to eat and rest.
I don't think you could possibly go to your managers with a print out of this topic and tell them :"look what other people do or think"
If you have that problem in your airline..that's the place for you to sort it out.I've been flying for a quite long while now, and have done all sorts...long haule, medium and short....and have to be honest and say that yours is a problem that had hardly affected me.
Maybe follow HM advice...go back and read what people said, and take some ideas from there.
We can't really give you a proper advice, as we don't know how things work in your airline...and because of that we can't even give you the solution of your problems. It's your manager responsability to do it, not your fellow crewmembers on PPRuNe
As I said we can just exchange information and ideas here....and I believe you had quite a few points of view about it now.
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*************************Happy Landings!
*************************
Guest
Posts: n/a
Just for a little healthy laugh
MANAGEMENT LESSONS
*********************************
Lesson Number One
*************************
A crow was sitting on a tree, doing nothing all day. A small rabbit
saw the crow, and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing
all day long?" The crow answered: "Sure, why not." So, the rabbit
sat
on the ground below the crow, and rested. All of a sudden, a fox
appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate it.
Management Lesson: To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be
sitting very, very high up.
Lesson Number Two
************************
A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold, the
bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying
there, a cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As the frozen
bird
lay there in the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it
was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm
and
happy, and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird
singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat
discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug
him
out and ate him!
Management Lessons:
1) Not everyone who drops **** on you is your enemy.
2) Not everyone who gets you out of **** is your friend.
3) And when you're in deep **** , keep your mouth shut!
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*************************Happy Landings!
*************************
[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 15 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 15 January 2001).]
MANAGEMENT LESSONS
*********************************
Lesson Number One
*************************
A crow was sitting on a tree, doing nothing all day. A small rabbit
saw the crow, and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing
all day long?" The crow answered: "Sure, why not." So, the rabbit
sat
on the ground below the crow, and rested. All of a sudden, a fox
appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate it.
Management Lesson: To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be
sitting very, very high up.
Lesson Number Two
************************
A little bird was flying south for the winter. It was so cold, the
bird froze and fell to the ground in a large field. While it was lying
there, a cow came by and dropped some dung on it. As the frozen
bird
lay there in the pile of cow dung, it began to realize how warm it
was. The dung was actually thawing him out! He lay there all warm
and
happy, and soon began to sing for joy. A passing cat heard the bird
singing and came to investigate. Following the sound, the cat
discovered the bird under the pile of cow dung, and promptly dug
him
out and ate him!
Management Lessons:
1) Not everyone who drops **** on you is your enemy.
2) Not everyone who gets you out of **** is your friend.
3) And when you're in deep **** , keep your mouth shut!
------------------
*************************Happy Landings!
*************************
[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 15 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Xenia (edited 15 January 2001).]
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ladies! and/or gent!
Please allow a humble SLF to make a comment, based on 4 recent long haul flights with a far eastern carrier - no names mentioned, but they do have a rep for good custumer service (god knows why!).
The cabin crew on their 10-11 hour flights were definately not without rest:
After meal service (approx 2 hours) the WHOLE cabincrew of the (full booked) economy class (747-400), bar 1 disappeared into their bunks, only to reappear 5 hours later to do a hurried breakfast.
During the rest period, the one remaining steard sat himself down on a js in the rear of the cabin and proceeded to read a paper.
---------------
The same airline employs cabinstaff that are unable to reach the overheadbins - is that actually legal?
Please allow a humble SLF to make a comment, based on 4 recent long haul flights with a far eastern carrier - no names mentioned, but they do have a rep for good custumer service (god knows why!).
The cabin crew on their 10-11 hour flights were definately not without rest:
After meal service (approx 2 hours) the WHOLE cabincrew of the (full booked) economy class (747-400), bar 1 disappeared into their bunks, only to reappear 5 hours later to do a hurried breakfast.
During the rest period, the one remaining steard sat himself down on a js in the rear of the cabin and proceeded to read a paper.
---------------
The same airline employs cabinstaff that are unable to reach the overheadbins - is that actually legal?
Guest
Posts: n/a
WCF,
To follow up on Xenia's and HugMonster's suggestions, may I suggest that you read the profiles of the various contributors?
You asked explicitly what other cabin crew thought of this matter. Xenia, Airbabe, NG PSR, Flyblue and I are all cabin crew, and each of us has gone trhough the trouble of trying to help you out by supplying you with information on how we do things, both as individuals and according to our company procedures.
On top of that, West030 and HugMonster, both pilots, took the time to let you know their thoughts on the matter.
You shrug off our contributions, as they apparently are not what you wished to hear. To me that seems rather churlish and counter-productive.
But hey Girl, suit yourself and sulk, just remember that you're antagonizing a group of friendly and potentially helpful people here.
Your loss....................
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Singularly Simple Person........
To follow up on Xenia's and HugMonster's suggestions, may I suggest that you read the profiles of the various contributors?
You asked explicitly what other cabin crew thought of this matter. Xenia, Airbabe, NG PSR, Flyblue and I are all cabin crew, and each of us has gone trhough the trouble of trying to help you out by supplying you with information on how we do things, both as individuals and according to our company procedures.
On top of that, West030 and HugMonster, both pilots, took the time to let you know their thoughts on the matter.
You shrug off our contributions, as they apparently are not what you wished to hear. To me that seems rather churlish and counter-productive.
But hey Girl, suit yourself and sulk, just remember that you're antagonizing a group of friendly and potentially helpful people here.
Your loss....................
------------------
Singularly Simple Person........
Guest
Posts: n/a
I agree with just about everyone, I used to fly short haul, on a 4 sector day, we usually had time to eat on at least 3 sectors if we wanted ( even if it was a bit rushed).
On long haul sectors, we have rostered time off after the meal service ie, everyone on the left side goes off for 3 hours, the rest stay and play with the pax, then swap over. ( I must add some of our sectors are 15 hours long !!). We have bunks in the 747-400 and on selected services on the B747-300. The B747-200/SP/B767's have curtained off seats for us to snooze in.
It's all about time management on short sectors !!
If you have a 4 secotr day, and you havent had time to eat on the first 2, then you have to adapt the service to accommodate you (a hungry & fatigued f/a is a safety hazzard!) a good rule of thumb for this situation would be to look after:
a)cabin crew b) techies c)pax in that order. But with proper time management, you should never get into that situation !~!
You have to look after yourselves and your fellow cabin crew in order to be able to look after the pax !!
If your airline is that bad, I would really suggest you cahnge carriers !!
Oh and whoever that SLF was who complained about the f/a sitting down reading the paper - what would you have him do? Laps of the cabin for five hours? Sit there twiddling his thumbs for five hours? Serenade the pax to sleep? What ?? I'm sure if you pressed your call button, he'd put the paper down and help you. Geesh! no pleasing some people!!
On long haul sectors, we have rostered time off after the meal service ie, everyone on the left side goes off for 3 hours, the rest stay and play with the pax, then swap over. ( I must add some of our sectors are 15 hours long !!). We have bunks in the 747-400 and on selected services on the B747-300. The B747-200/SP/B767's have curtained off seats for us to snooze in.
It's all about time management on short sectors !!
If you have a 4 secotr day, and you havent had time to eat on the first 2, then you have to adapt the service to accommodate you (a hungry & fatigued f/a is a safety hazzard!) a good rule of thumb for this situation would be to look after:
a)cabin crew b) techies c)pax in that order. But with proper time management, you should never get into that situation !~!
You have to look after yourselves and your fellow cabin crew in order to be able to look after the pax !!
If your airline is that bad, I would really suggest you cahnge carriers !!
Oh and whoever that SLF was who complained about the f/a sitting down reading the paper - what would you have him do? Laps of the cabin for five hours? Sit there twiddling his thumbs for five hours? Serenade the pax to sleep? What ?? I'm sure if you pressed your call button, he'd put the paper down and help you. Geesh! no pleasing some people!!
