BA IR issues
Keeperboy,
Good post - balanced and fair.
The expression 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' would seem to size up nicely the often found divide between cabin crew and flight crew.
I have had some very interesting discussions recently with cabin crew when down route. It would be fair to say that the vast majority know even less than I do about the issues involved. I have even found a very senior cabin crew member who was adamant that the 'hourly rate' issue alone would make her vote yes.
A lot of the pilots are amazed that BASSA have chosen to lump so many issues together - obviously to increase the chances of a yes vote!! It saddens me that so many appear almost gung-ho about the possibility of going on strike. I understand that if BA offer to accept even one of the ballot demands, then they would have excellent legal grounds to have an injunction granted against any strike action.
Good post - balanced and fair.
The expression 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter' would seem to size up nicely the often found divide between cabin crew and flight crew.
I have had some very interesting discussions recently with cabin crew when down route. It would be fair to say that the vast majority know even less than I do about the issues involved. I have even found a very senior cabin crew member who was adamant that the 'hourly rate' issue alone would make her vote yes.
A lot of the pilots are amazed that BASSA have chosen to lump so many issues together - obviously to increase the chances of a yes vote!! It saddens me that so many appear almost gung-ho about the possibility of going on strike. I understand that if BA offer to accept even one of the ballot demands, then they would have excellent legal grounds to have an injunction granted against any strike action.
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taken from bassa forum
From the first time I took up a role in a customer service position, way back in the 80’s can you believe it; it was like a switch flicked inside of me. I spent four years at hotel school, trained to be a chef, worked around various parts of the world, and knew I was good at it (this post is not about modesty). I have always worked in top class establishments, hotels and restaurants, and earned good buck for my experience and knowledge. Now I had always wanted to fly, I swear the first time I saw Concorde gracefully fly over my home town I nearly pee-ed myself. I was a late starter getting into flying, only having been in the air for four years now, and loved it from the word go. I have taken my customer service experience, and tweaked it to the needs of being cabin crew. Long days don’t bother me, neither multi sector days and trips, working holidays, early mornings, weekends, being away from home, family and even my partner, these I can cope with. Ok, I don’t want to do night flights, but that’s just personal preference and so far I have managed to “beg, borrow and steal” my way out of the dreaded DME night duty.
99% of the time, I give 110% (I reserve the right to be human). The customers we fly around the Eurofleet network get seriously whacked in the face with warm welcomes, helpfulness, knowledge of our airline, routes, connections, our award winning website and all its features, our executive club, our product and our pride in working for our national flag carrier. I spend a lot of time keeping current with our ever changing airline. I try and see the rationale behind changes in product, pricing, challenges we face as a massive company in trying to balance the needs and expectations of our customers with the need to make a profit and those of a responsible employer. I make excuses for the disappointments our customers experience, from daily late departures and arrivals, lack of catering, lack of continuity in customer service between departments, bags not making flights, misinformation, appalling airport conditions, broken seats, tired looking aircraft (all the old airbus aircraft spring to mind), rank smelling aircraft and toilets, appalling food ( £1600 for a club ticket to Moscow and insufficient choices to go around of bad quality food!), running out of product, under-catering, warm wines and champagne, poor quality in-flight entertainment on Eurofleet.
I looked today and our latest customer satisfaction rating of cabin crew is 84%. This is fairly standard for us. We are constantly told that it’s our performance and outstanding customer service that keeps our customers coming back again and again. We seem to hit the right balance of care, respect, informality and genuine heartfelt desire to give a service experience that sees that our customers have the best flying experience we can give despite the daily disappointments our company keeps on throwing at our customers. All you need to do to know the feelings of our customers is to read some of the reviews that various airline internet review sites post as well as the board up in the compass centre with letters of appreciation from our customers. We shine compared to a lot of our competitors in customer service, the very nature of our jobs.
On another note, I promote our company in many ways. I question family and friends who chose to fly with other airlines so I can understand why they made that choice, I regularly check flight prices for people and most times we come up trumps, I extol the virtues of buying multi sector point to point tickets with BA instead of looking for the cheapest option on various carriers which could leave passengers in the deep should something go wrong, I reckon I have booked approximately £10 000 worth of tickets for family and friends in the last year alone, I explain and promote the use of ba.com and all its features such as online check in, I get upset when people I know ( and sometimes don’t know) tell me of bad experiences they have had with British Airways, I try and explain why it is that certain things happen and why they don’t live up to passengers expectations, win them round you may say. In other words, I fly the flag for this company.
Now you may ask where this is all going. Well, firstly, for those of you that may be thinking that Eurofleet crew are apathetic to the cause of the industrial action that we are currently facing, let me tell you that I have stressed out enormously about what is happening at the moment, I regularly keep my ears to the ground at work to see where the lands lies with my colleagues, I am saddened by the mud slinging between company and union, crew and management, individuals. I will be the first to stand up and say that there are times when I don’t know who to believe, is it company propaganda or the ugly side of union politics that I do not like one bit. I don’t know if I have the ‘bottle’ to stand up to intimidation, I also know that if I am to go the distance with this fight, it could put me in a serious short term financial dilemma.
But, I will tell you what I do know, that for all the things mentioned above that I put in to this job, not just the basic requirements of getting the job done, but the extras that come with it, for that I deserve a fair wage. At present I am happy with what I earn, I think the company gets incredible value for money from me. I don’t go sick unnecessarily, I don’t take dependency days unnecessarily, I work to the maximum hours our agreements dictate without question or complaint, I even think ( shock and horrors) that there is room for improvement to our productivity on Eurofleet and this should be approached and negotiated in a mutually beneficial way.
If British Airways wants to erode my terms and conditions of employment and ultimately pay me less, I will be faced with two choices: one I can leave a job I love and want to stay with for a number of years, or, two, I can change the way I work and this is how it will go: when a passenger walks on to the aircraft, I will not greet them by name, not recognise them from the flight the day before and welcome them back warmly, I will check their boarding card because that is a safety requirement, when I am standing at the overwings, I will not chat animatedly with passengers about their holidays, their tan or the book they are carrying, I will not bust a gut to move a passenger who wants to be seated elsewhere, I will not be caring about the bad customer experience they have had on their journey to the aircraft, I will not ‘find’ a newspaper for the person who hasn’t had a chance to read the Daily Mail in weeks, I will not recommend a wine, I will not pour champagne with grace and slip them another bottle because it is their anniversary, I will not move a passenger to the front of the aircraft to give them the best possible chance of making the connection to their next flight, I will not stand and talk a nervous passenger through the stages of flight that scares the living hell out of them, I will not make up cool, wet towels for the mother distraught at her child’s discomfort or illness; and I will not apologies for lack of catering, cleaning and late departure/arrival. I will also not promote British Airways as a full service airline, I will not inform passengers of the best way of getting the best deal out of their choice of airline, I will not explain new routes/destinations, I will not read up on changes to our airline to keep our customers informed and I certainly will not be booking flights for friends and family any more.
You see, the bottom line for me is that I was recruited by British Airways not just because I could open an aircraft door in an emergency, or deal with a medical case on board, but because I come with a range of skills and experience and maybe even a little bit of flair which I could use in the role of customer service to provide a fantastic journey for our customers so they would come back time and again and recommend us and promote flying with us to their friends and family, and ultimately make a profit for our airline and pay me a decent wage for doing a damn good job.
There is a difference between working on minimum wage for McDonalds where you don’t expect to be greeted with a smile but just get your mediocre burger, because it’s a means to an end, or working for the likes of the Savoy or the Ritz at a higher wage where your skills and experience are used and appreciated and for that you can command a higher wage and better terms of employment and future prospects.
So, Mr. Walsh, if you, the board, the shareholders and the our paying passengers want me to flip a British Airways burger and slap it in a box and send customers on their way like they are on a production line, then tell me that is what you want and I will make the decisions I have to make accordingly. But if you want me to provide a ‘service that matters for people who value how they fly’ and you still want to cut back on the fair and just way you remunerate me for these skills, then you better believe that you will have a fight on your hands from me!
I vote resoundingly in favour of a yes vote!
99% of the time, I give 110% (I reserve the right to be human). The customers we fly around the Eurofleet network get seriously whacked in the face with warm welcomes, helpfulness, knowledge of our airline, routes, connections, our award winning website and all its features, our executive club, our product and our pride in working for our national flag carrier. I spend a lot of time keeping current with our ever changing airline. I try and see the rationale behind changes in product, pricing, challenges we face as a massive company in trying to balance the needs and expectations of our customers with the need to make a profit and those of a responsible employer. I make excuses for the disappointments our customers experience, from daily late departures and arrivals, lack of catering, lack of continuity in customer service between departments, bags not making flights, misinformation, appalling airport conditions, broken seats, tired looking aircraft (all the old airbus aircraft spring to mind), rank smelling aircraft and toilets, appalling food ( £1600 for a club ticket to Moscow and insufficient choices to go around of bad quality food!), running out of product, under-catering, warm wines and champagne, poor quality in-flight entertainment on Eurofleet.
I looked today and our latest customer satisfaction rating of cabin crew is 84%. This is fairly standard for us. We are constantly told that it’s our performance and outstanding customer service that keeps our customers coming back again and again. We seem to hit the right balance of care, respect, informality and genuine heartfelt desire to give a service experience that sees that our customers have the best flying experience we can give despite the daily disappointments our company keeps on throwing at our customers. All you need to do to know the feelings of our customers is to read some of the reviews that various airline internet review sites post as well as the board up in the compass centre with letters of appreciation from our customers. We shine compared to a lot of our competitors in customer service, the very nature of our jobs.
On another note, I promote our company in many ways. I question family and friends who chose to fly with other airlines so I can understand why they made that choice, I regularly check flight prices for people and most times we come up trumps, I extol the virtues of buying multi sector point to point tickets with BA instead of looking for the cheapest option on various carriers which could leave passengers in the deep should something go wrong, I reckon I have booked approximately £10 000 worth of tickets for family and friends in the last year alone, I explain and promote the use of ba.com and all its features such as online check in, I get upset when people I know ( and sometimes don’t know) tell me of bad experiences they have had with British Airways, I try and explain why it is that certain things happen and why they don’t live up to passengers expectations, win them round you may say. In other words, I fly the flag for this company.
Now you may ask where this is all going. Well, firstly, for those of you that may be thinking that Eurofleet crew are apathetic to the cause of the industrial action that we are currently facing, let me tell you that I have stressed out enormously about what is happening at the moment, I regularly keep my ears to the ground at work to see where the lands lies with my colleagues, I am saddened by the mud slinging between company and union, crew and management, individuals. I will be the first to stand up and say that there are times when I don’t know who to believe, is it company propaganda or the ugly side of union politics that I do not like one bit. I don’t know if I have the ‘bottle’ to stand up to intimidation, I also know that if I am to go the distance with this fight, it could put me in a serious short term financial dilemma.
But, I will tell you what I do know, that for all the things mentioned above that I put in to this job, not just the basic requirements of getting the job done, but the extras that come with it, for that I deserve a fair wage. At present I am happy with what I earn, I think the company gets incredible value for money from me. I don’t go sick unnecessarily, I don’t take dependency days unnecessarily, I work to the maximum hours our agreements dictate without question or complaint, I even think ( shock and horrors) that there is room for improvement to our productivity on Eurofleet and this should be approached and negotiated in a mutually beneficial way.
If British Airways wants to erode my terms and conditions of employment and ultimately pay me less, I will be faced with two choices: one I can leave a job I love and want to stay with for a number of years, or, two, I can change the way I work and this is how it will go: when a passenger walks on to the aircraft, I will not greet them by name, not recognise them from the flight the day before and welcome them back warmly, I will check their boarding card because that is a safety requirement, when I am standing at the overwings, I will not chat animatedly with passengers about their holidays, their tan or the book they are carrying, I will not bust a gut to move a passenger who wants to be seated elsewhere, I will not be caring about the bad customer experience they have had on their journey to the aircraft, I will not ‘find’ a newspaper for the person who hasn’t had a chance to read the Daily Mail in weeks, I will not recommend a wine, I will not pour champagne with grace and slip them another bottle because it is their anniversary, I will not move a passenger to the front of the aircraft to give them the best possible chance of making the connection to their next flight, I will not stand and talk a nervous passenger through the stages of flight that scares the living hell out of them, I will not make up cool, wet towels for the mother distraught at her child’s discomfort or illness; and I will not apologies for lack of catering, cleaning and late departure/arrival. I will also not promote British Airways as a full service airline, I will not inform passengers of the best way of getting the best deal out of their choice of airline, I will not explain new routes/destinations, I will not read up on changes to our airline to keep our customers informed and I certainly will not be booking flights for friends and family any more.
You see, the bottom line for me is that I was recruited by British Airways not just because I could open an aircraft door in an emergency, or deal with a medical case on board, but because I come with a range of skills and experience and maybe even a little bit of flair which I could use in the role of customer service to provide a fantastic journey for our customers so they would come back time and again and recommend us and promote flying with us to their friends and family, and ultimately make a profit for our airline and pay me a decent wage for doing a damn good job.
There is a difference between working on minimum wage for McDonalds where you don’t expect to be greeted with a smile but just get your mediocre burger, because it’s a means to an end, or working for the likes of the Savoy or the Ritz at a higher wage where your skills and experience are used and appreciated and for that you can command a higher wage and better terms of employment and future prospects.
So, Mr. Walsh, if you, the board, the shareholders and the our paying passengers want me to flip a British Airways burger and slap it in a box and send customers on their way like they are on a production line, then tell me that is what you want and I will make the decisions I have to make accordingly. But if you want me to provide a ‘service that matters for people who value how they fly’ and you still want to cut back on the fair and just way you remunerate me for these skills, then you better believe that you will have a fight on your hands from me!
I vote resoundingly in favour of a yes vote!
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reverse thruster, that was a great post.
However, why don't you post it on the BA forum (ess)? It would really stand out where it counts. Mr walsh won't read pprune, but Mt Talling-Smith and the lot do (despite they answer only when they want!). It would be much more useful there
However, why don't you post it on the BA forum (ess)? It would really stand out where it counts. Mr walsh won't read pprune, but Mt Talling-Smith and the lot do (despite they answer only when they want!). It would be much more useful there
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Beware!
Lots of interesting stuff here guys, only word of caution is that you are not dealing with the good guys! Just ask any crew, either ex BAR crew ( i.e. joined BA in the regions) or anyone who currently works or worked in BAConnect; delivering high GPM results every month, working for £1:90 per hour flight pay at some of the lowest pay rates given to crew wearing the BA uniform, if the current paymasters are warm and fuzzy!
NOT! If you don't fit into the 'plan' pal, you are out, sold to the nice man in the red uniform!
My message? Stick together & stay focused! Listen to both sides and vote according to the facts.
Oh, and by the way, BAConnect only has TU representation via base representatives supported by the TGWU, BASSA have no recognition! Get my drift?
Good Luck to all!
NOT! If you don't fit into the 'plan' pal, you are out, sold to the nice man in the red uniform!My message? Stick together & stay focused! Listen to both sides and vote according to the facts.
Oh, and by the way, BAConnect only has TU representation via base representatives supported by the TGWU, BASSA have no recognition! Get my drift?
Good Luck to all!
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New Nightstop For Ba Lgw Crew!!!
Hi guys....just thought i'd add to the pot my feeling about BA this eve!
Not only have we got all this bad feeling regarding the IR issues being balloted for but until the takeover of the WW routes are complete many of us are lucky to be working enough to earn anything over £1000 a month due to over crewing. Now I understand why we are overcrewed until next month and we are generally all willing to put up with this until the money starts to roll a little.
So you can imagine how important any rostered trips are to us!?
Well today my 3 day trip included a NEW nightstop! Yes a LGW nightstop!
With no anual leave this month this is my first flight of the month (remember its the 8th already) and I managed a 3 day trip to 2 places in europe.
Well on the 1st/2nd leg we are delayed by 1 hour and low and behold the next leg gets re crewed by standby's so we lose out first city! Oh well we think maybe we can see why they have done this and I suppose at least we are still ding the 2nd city the next day (as per information from the captain as they were meant to be with us all the way).
We get to our crewlink messages and we see a roster change but oh no not to say we are reporting tomrrow.....no...that we are on standby for 2 more days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This trip is in effect worth £150 approx and when we aren't expected to clear £1000 this month taking £150 out of our wallets just isn't funny!
Its not even as if the flights were full....most had about 50-70 pax booked.
We were all sure that we should have been given the rest of our trip to maintain our roster stability!?!?!?!? By no means were the standby crew entitled to that 3 day trip.....there was no reason for them to complete the whole trip and they could have satisfied 2 sets of crew. Instead they lose the last of my goodwill and I won't be there to help them until they stop putting stupid links between trips when one of the destinations is notorious for being late.
We all know that if we were on a nasty double BA would have accepted that (relatively) small delay...
I know im going to get replies from people who think im being unreasonable but why not transfer £150 out of your bank account into mine and see if you like it?!?
Paxy.
Rant over.
Not only have we got all this bad feeling regarding the IR issues being balloted for but until the takeover of the WW routes are complete many of us are lucky to be working enough to earn anything over £1000 a month due to over crewing. Now I understand why we are overcrewed until next month and we are generally all willing to put up with this until the money starts to roll a little.
So you can imagine how important any rostered trips are to us!?
Well today my 3 day trip included a NEW nightstop! Yes a LGW nightstop!
With no anual leave this month this is my first flight of the month (remember its the 8th already) and I managed a 3 day trip to 2 places in europe.
Well on the 1st/2nd leg we are delayed by 1 hour and low and behold the next leg gets re crewed by standby's so we lose out first city! Oh well we think maybe we can see why they have done this and I suppose at least we are still ding the 2nd city the next day (as per information from the captain as they were meant to be with us all the way).
We get to our crewlink messages and we see a roster change but oh no not to say we are reporting tomrrow.....no...that we are on standby for 2 more days!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This trip is in effect worth £150 approx and when we aren't expected to clear £1000 this month taking £150 out of our wallets just isn't funny!
Its not even as if the flights were full....most had about 50-70 pax booked.
We were all sure that we should have been given the rest of our trip to maintain our roster stability!?!?!?!? By no means were the standby crew entitled to that 3 day trip.....there was no reason for them to complete the whole trip and they could have satisfied 2 sets of crew. Instead they lose the last of my goodwill and I won't be there to help them until they stop putting stupid links between trips when one of the destinations is notorious for being late.
We all know that if we were on a nasty double BA would have accepted that (relatively) small delay...
I know im going to get replies from people who think im being unreasonable but why not transfer £150 out of your bank account into mine and see if you like it?!?
Paxy.
Rant over.
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Paxy.....I understand your frustration, believe me, however that's not how crewing works unfortunately.
There's not such a thing as "those standby crew were not entitled to that 3 day trip", as once they call out somebody to do any kind of trip it can be easier and less complicated (from a planning point of view) to have the standby crew do the rest of the trip and transfer their standby's to the crew who got delayed.
Again, I understand your frustration very well, I know how you feel, however the company doesn't care whether you get annoyed or not, they have an operation to run and try to do it in the easiest, cheapest way possible, and in this case most likely passing the rest of their standby's to you and your crew was just that.
Morale is going really down at LGW, it's such a shame
There's not such a thing as "those standby crew were not entitled to that 3 day trip", as once they call out somebody to do any kind of trip it can be easier and less complicated (from a planning point of view) to have the standby crew do the rest of the trip and transfer their standby's to the crew who got delayed.
Again, I understand your frustration very well, I know how you feel, however the company doesn't care whether you get annoyed or not, they have an operation to run and try to do it in the easiest, cheapest way possible, and in this case most likely passing the rest of their standby's to you and your crew was just that.
Morale is going really down at LGW, it's such a shame
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pax agent
whilst none of us would want to loose money, you must appreciate the idea is to get as many flights as near to on-time as possible and not to inconvenience the customers , they come first not the staff.
whilst none of us would want to loose money, you must appreciate the idea is to get as many flights as near to on-time as possible and not to inconvenience the customers , they come first not the staff.
My day with BA
My Honoured Gentlefolk
I am an ex BA employee. I flew to MAN today for pay negotiations with my current Charter airline. I sat on the bus from X car park LGW mulling over the forthcoming meeting, when three BA crew got on. Now being a union activist, (Amicus), I was very interested to listen to the debate about the forthcoing strike, (its gonna happen, so they said). The two girls were about to be relocated to LHR, the chap was soon to be flying longhaul out of LGW, but wasn't really bothered about doing it, but didn't stop talking about it.
Now, I went through some troubling feelings and emotions on this 10 minute journey. The things I picked out of the debate were that LGW were going to strike because they were having some breakfasts taken away? and LHR were going on strike because a 10 hr duty to Houston is an unacceptably fatiguing duty with only two days off afterwards. I was puzzled why I instantly felt annoyed by the comments that were made. How dare they feel hard done by? Come and work in the rest of the UK industry and see what working is all about!!!! Then, my sensible head appeared. OK, striking for breakfast is a bit extreme, but someone really has to draw a line in the sand and say that YES, the days off after a duty where jet lag involved, is important! Who better to raise the issue to the public eye than the Flag Carrier! I have been caught in the downward spiral of constant reductions of terms and conditions and found myself almost agreeing with BA managements view. It passed after a couple of seconds, but I couldn't help feeling that joe public may not feel the same way.
The money side of things is somewhat confusing though. I left 8 years ago and when I left, LH cabin crew were paid somewhere in the region of Bill Gates and the flight deck were paid in gold, frakinscence and muur! Looking on the pilot pay scales web site, nigel/la and his/her younger brother/sister, nigel/la are paid well, but WW crew paid between £1100-£1800 clear; thats a shock. Juniors at my lot get roughly the same! However, do they have to work for it! The longest duty with positioning is about 18hrs and no crew rest. They have agreed to fit a curtain around three seats at the back of the longhaul jets, but as yet, they are still in a store room somewhere!
Anyway, we had our meeting, I had a chat with my director about my journey in the morning and we discussed why Virgin employees love Virgin and BA employees are not quite as loving to their employer. He also suggested that BA would go the way of Qantas in the not too distant.
Anyway, meeting over, back to T3 for flight back to LGW, already checked in, so straight through security, looked up at the screen, delayed for an hour!! I wish it was a one off, but generally it isn't; where the Jet2 flight is generally on time. As an airline employee, I completely understand how delays happen, (tech, weather, unacheivable schedules unless a perfect day), but it is still damn annoying, so what do the SLF feel?
I have just re-read this and I don't really know what I want to say other that I agree with why you feel the way you do, but will the majority of your flying guests feel that way? Still, you have to fight to survive and good luck to you. I will bib as I drive past the pick-nik line on the RDB outside North.
I am an ex BA employee. I flew to MAN today for pay negotiations with my current Charter airline. I sat on the bus from X car park LGW mulling over the forthcoming meeting, when three BA crew got on. Now being a union activist, (Amicus), I was very interested to listen to the debate about the forthcoing strike, (its gonna happen, so they said). The two girls were about to be relocated to LHR, the chap was soon to be flying longhaul out of LGW, but wasn't really bothered about doing it, but didn't stop talking about it.
Now, I went through some troubling feelings and emotions on this 10 minute journey. The things I picked out of the debate were that LGW were going to strike because they were having some breakfasts taken away? and LHR were going on strike because a 10 hr duty to Houston is an unacceptably fatiguing duty with only two days off afterwards. I was puzzled why I instantly felt annoyed by the comments that were made. How dare they feel hard done by? Come and work in the rest of the UK industry and see what working is all about!!!! Then, my sensible head appeared. OK, striking for breakfast is a bit extreme, but someone really has to draw a line in the sand and say that YES, the days off after a duty where jet lag involved, is important! Who better to raise the issue to the public eye than the Flag Carrier! I have been caught in the downward spiral of constant reductions of terms and conditions and found myself almost agreeing with BA managements view. It passed after a couple of seconds, but I couldn't help feeling that joe public may not feel the same way.
The money side of things is somewhat confusing though. I left 8 years ago and when I left, LH cabin crew were paid somewhere in the region of Bill Gates and the flight deck were paid in gold, frakinscence and muur! Looking on the pilot pay scales web site, nigel/la and his/her younger brother/sister, nigel/la are paid well, but WW crew paid between £1100-£1800 clear; thats a shock. Juniors at my lot get roughly the same! However, do they have to work for it! The longest duty with positioning is about 18hrs and no crew rest. They have agreed to fit a curtain around three seats at the back of the longhaul jets, but as yet, they are still in a store room somewhere!
Anyway, we had our meeting, I had a chat with my director about my journey in the morning and we discussed why Virgin employees love Virgin and BA employees are not quite as loving to their employer. He also suggested that BA would go the way of Qantas in the not too distant.
Anyway, meeting over, back to T3 for flight back to LGW, already checked in, so straight through security, looked up at the screen, delayed for an hour!! I wish it was a one off, but generally it isn't; where the Jet2 flight is generally on time. As an airline employee, I completely understand how delays happen, (tech, weather, unacheivable schedules unless a perfect day), but it is still damn annoying, so what do the SLF feel?
I have just re-read this and I don't really know what I want to say other that I agree with why you feel the way you do, but will the majority of your flying guests feel that way? Still, you have to fight to survive and good luck to you. I will bib as I drive past the pick-nik line on the RDB outside North.
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reply to lighbulbs
Good post Lightbulbs!
Spose its summed up by the fact that after years of it happening a feeling of being cacked on as a regular part of life by your employer and that the money men always want the extra pound of flesh starts to build up on one.
Yes the industry has changed dramatically, BA are no longer the airline of choice in Europe, the Irishman and the Greek chap have opened the continent up via lo fares, and frankly we have not adapted. ( Bet they wish that we still owned 'GO'!) Yes we have to cut costs and adapt, everyone understands that, and perhaps if we crew felt valued and included things might be different, but we are not.
I still as a professional deliver excellence every time I fly, but it's getting harder believe me! All I ask is that when it comes to voting on action you vote with understanding of the issues and just ask yourself, does my boss know me & what I contribute to this business? If it's NO then this must mean you are only a staff number to him/her and perhaps BA needs reminding that you are actually a person and deserve respect, recognition and to be valued.
Good Luck All!
Spose its summed up by the fact that after years of it happening a feeling of being cacked on as a regular part of life by your employer and that the money men always want the extra pound of flesh starts to build up on one.
Yes the industry has changed dramatically, BA are no longer the airline of choice in Europe, the Irishman and the Greek chap have opened the continent up via lo fares, and frankly we have not adapted. ( Bet they wish that we still owned 'GO'!) Yes we have to cut costs and adapt, everyone understands that, and perhaps if we crew felt valued and included things might be different, but we are not.
I still as a professional deliver excellence every time I fly, but it's getting harder believe me! All I ask is that when it comes to voting on action you vote with understanding of the issues and just ask yourself, does my boss know me & what I contribute to this business? If it's NO then this must mean you are only a staff number to him/her and perhaps BA needs reminding that you are actually a person and deserve respect, recognition and to be valued.
Good Luck All!
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oldflyboy..honestly, I'm interested to know:
1. What would make you feel valued?
2. Why is it getting harder to deliver excellence? Can you suggest ways to make it easier?
3. Who is your boss? Do you feel you need to have a face-to-face relationship with him/her? Do they need to 'know' you?
4. What do you contribute to the business?
5. Why do you think that 'we have not adapted'. BEP et al, was all about adapting - wasn't it?
6. Do you feel that by taking IA, BA will recognise, value and respect you?
7. Finally, where does it state that BA was ever "the airline of choice in Europe?"
I'm not a cc manager, by the way, I just wonder sometimes what 'professionals' like yourself really, really, really think.
nurj
1. What would make you feel valued?
2. Why is it getting harder to deliver excellence? Can you suggest ways to make it easier?
3. Who is your boss? Do you feel you need to have a face-to-face relationship with him/her? Do they need to 'know' you?
4. What do you contribute to the business?
5. Why do you think that 'we have not adapted'. BEP et al, was all about adapting - wasn't it?
6. Do you feel that by taking IA, BA will recognise, value and respect you?
7. Finally, where does it state that BA was ever "the airline of choice in Europe?"
I'm not a cc manager, by the way, I just wonder sometimes what 'professionals' like yourself really, really, really think.
nurj
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Despite not wanting to come back to this site (because I feel some contributors feel compelled to create division amongst the company employees: Flight crew/Cabin Crew; Management/Crew, and post inciteful comments) I just couldn't help myself: I wanted to see how the thread had progressed. It seems a little calmer and more thought-provoking now that some of the knee-jerkers have left the party!
I feel that it is really sad (and indicative of the Manager-Crew divide) that there needs to be a threat of a strike in order for some of our concerns, (many of which we have tried to convey for years) to be addressed. Yes, there are some who are always spoiling for a fight, but for such a large cross-section of the crew community and one of the first times, historically, for BOTH unions to be in agreement, speaks volumes about the state of affairs of our company.
I have stated before that I consider myself to be one of the moderate, law-abiding types. By that I mean that I have never been in any trouble with the management, indeed my manager (who I met for the first time in 10 years!) looked at my file and told me that BA needs more people like me; I have only ever reported unfit for work when I have been seriously unable to operate (I think 3 occasions in 10 years), and despite being in the possession of a brain and an honours degree, have chosen to do a job that doesn't tax my mind at all, but I believe I am good at and possess the right qualities for the job. If I were on a flight, I would want to be served by me. (ooooh, get me!). I digress...
I worked at Marks & Spencer's HQ in my last job and saw first-hand how a monolithic company operated. At the time, M&S was in severe financial trouble - and I might have saved the company a few years of turmoil, had I the chance to point out to the CEO that the way to turn the company around was not to cut the conditions and pay of the sales assistants and order them to be more productive, but to rather get rid of all the consultants on a £100 an hour and many of the anonymous middle management who I would observe flitting from one meeting to another, never accomplishing anything on their To Do lists and merely treading water. I would prefer for us to operate in the John Lewis model of a partnership, where we all work for the common good and the financial benefit of the company, but not being in the possession of a Economics degree, I don't know the ramifications of that...
Despite being the Teachers' Pet, I feel that our management operate solely on a "Stick" mentality - no Carrot, no reward. I go the "extra mile" - it is part of my job and the reason I was hired. I don't want to go on strike, and I dare say many of my colleagues don't either. But is this what it takes to get the management to listen to our concerns and try and find a suitable middle ground? Is it only because of a threat to managers' bonuses and fear for the safety of their own jobs (and unfortunately the resulting financial impact on ALL BA employees, shareholders, and disruption to our long-suffering customers) that someone like me can be given a voice?
Why did it come to this? Many of the 12 points of dispute have been on the table for OVER 10 YEARS. Those in charge of Industrial Relations now have to earn their paycheck and do what they were employed to do: resolve the dispute by involving all parties concerned and foster a culture of better communication, understanding and respect amongst us. No spin. No touchy-feely "You are not just a number, Miss 123456, you are an INDIVIDUAL" nonsense. Just honest engagement. If that were the case, there would be no need for Trade Unions. (But I still thank goodness I have them.)
Apologies for any spelling mistakes and for the length of my post, but I am jet-lagged and need to get this off my chest. Ta-ra!
I feel that it is really sad (and indicative of the Manager-Crew divide) that there needs to be a threat of a strike in order for some of our concerns, (many of which we have tried to convey for years) to be addressed. Yes, there are some who are always spoiling for a fight, but for such a large cross-section of the crew community and one of the first times, historically, for BOTH unions to be in agreement, speaks volumes about the state of affairs of our company.
I have stated before that I consider myself to be one of the moderate, law-abiding types. By that I mean that I have never been in any trouble with the management, indeed my manager (who I met for the first time in 10 years!) looked at my file and told me that BA needs more people like me; I have only ever reported unfit for work when I have been seriously unable to operate (I think 3 occasions in 10 years), and despite being in the possession of a brain and an honours degree, have chosen to do a job that doesn't tax my mind at all, but I believe I am good at and possess the right qualities for the job. If I were on a flight, I would want to be served by me. (ooooh, get me!). I digress...
I worked at Marks & Spencer's HQ in my last job and saw first-hand how a monolithic company operated. At the time, M&S was in severe financial trouble - and I might have saved the company a few years of turmoil, had I the chance to point out to the CEO that the way to turn the company around was not to cut the conditions and pay of the sales assistants and order them to be more productive, but to rather get rid of all the consultants on a £100 an hour and many of the anonymous middle management who I would observe flitting from one meeting to another, never accomplishing anything on their To Do lists and merely treading water. I would prefer for us to operate in the John Lewis model of a partnership, where we all work for the common good and the financial benefit of the company, but not being in the possession of a Economics degree, I don't know the ramifications of that...
Despite being the Teachers' Pet, I feel that our management operate solely on a "Stick" mentality - no Carrot, no reward. I go the "extra mile" - it is part of my job and the reason I was hired. I don't want to go on strike, and I dare say many of my colleagues don't either. But is this what it takes to get the management to listen to our concerns and try and find a suitable middle ground? Is it only because of a threat to managers' bonuses and fear for the safety of their own jobs (and unfortunately the resulting financial impact on ALL BA employees, shareholders, and disruption to our long-suffering customers) that someone like me can be given a voice?
Why did it come to this? Many of the 12 points of dispute have been on the table for OVER 10 YEARS. Those in charge of Industrial Relations now have to earn their paycheck and do what they were employed to do: resolve the dispute by involving all parties concerned and foster a culture of better communication, understanding and respect amongst us. No spin. No touchy-feely "You are not just a number, Miss 123456, you are an INDIVIDUAL" nonsense. Just honest engagement. If that were the case, there would be no need for Trade Unions. (But I still thank goodness I have them.)
Apologies for any spelling mistakes and for the length of my post, but I am jet-lagged and need to get this off my chest. Ta-ra!
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Having worked in a previous job as middle management, I know how the game works, make a presentation that raises "issues", this leads to another presentation/meeting, which leads to another and so on and so forth...The ultimate aim is to spin this process out for as long as possible in order to justify your job, and when someone comes along demanding answers make sure that your not in the firing line. I know I was very good at it, even getting to the stage of not doing a single days work in two months. Eventually I grew up, my conscience got the better of me, and I resigned.
The point is, for the BA management who are reading this, is that we are not stupid we know what you are doing,(mostly nothing), and we don't feel you should be rewarded for it while we are asked to pay for it.
The point is, for the BA management who are reading this, is that we are not stupid we know what you are doing,(mostly nothing), and we don't feel you should be rewarded for it while we are asked to pay for it.
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It will be very interesting to see what the ballot returns, I expect a 80% vote to strike from a 60% return at best (for BASSA), meaning under 50% of he electorate voting for strike action. Should a strike be called, I would expect less than 300 on strike in total (and half of those manning the picket line will be reps and those on days off), with the rest choosing to put themselves into AMP rather than strike.
I wish BASSA good luck as they are treated very badly, but I fear that there will be many tears over this one, with the vast majority being financially badly damaged through loss of basic pay and allowances, which they can ill-afford.
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I read a very interesting thread from the BALPA forum that someone had printed out yesterday, in it it detailed how BASSA's behaviour over the pensions issue left more than a little to be desired. It even went to the extent of detailing the behaviour of the BASSA chairman which left me aghast (but not suprised).
I went and spoke to one of the BASSA reps sitting upstairs in the coffee bar and they more or less confirmed the sequence of events, admitting that the pensions deal was not agreed by BASSA purely to avoid losing face.
Now if that's the kind of people that you want representing you then far be it from me to stand in your way... Just give a thought every now and then that the propaganda that is churned out by the offices in Compass is not as truthful as it claims to be on occasions, although of course the glossy 'diary of a crewmember' that has just been produced (at what cost I do not know) does not claim to be fact.
Last edited by ABird747; 12th Jan 2007 at 11:19. Reason: Pressed 'post message' too early!
Junior trash
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although of course the glossy 'diary of a crewmember' that has just been produced (at what cost I do not know) does not claim to be fact.
Knavesmire
Been out on strike a couple of times in my career. Its not very nice, but sometimes you have to draw that sandy line. I was on leave when we went out, so after the event, I withdrew my leave and gave BA the money back. It was pointed out to be by someone who didn't want to be out (but still was!) that I was still living at home, so it was only beer money I was giving back. Yep, it was, so It wasn't that much of a gesture, but I can't help that. It was the days of the AEEU and I am not cabin crew.
I have said many times before, don't fear the management, fear the person who you are sitting next to in the crew room, bus, plane, hotel bar etc, coz I bet most of you won't be standing next to each other outside the gates!!!
Been out on strike a couple of times in my career. Its not very nice, but sometimes you have to draw that sandy line. I was on leave when we went out, so after the event, I withdrew my leave and gave BA the money back. It was pointed out to be by someone who didn't want to be out (but still was!) that I was still living at home, so it was only beer money I was giving back. Yep, it was, so It wasn't that much of a gesture, but I can't help that. It was the days of the AEEU and I am not cabin crew.
I have said many times before, don't fear the management, fear the person who you are sitting next to in the crew room, bus, plane, hotel bar etc, coz I bet most of you won't be standing next to each other outside the gates!!!
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ba ir issues
a bird i suggest you up your medication and stop ranting about things you know nothing about and leave the bassa reps alone im sure cc89 are more your cup of tea