QANTAS CABIN CREW DISCUSSIONS ( IV)
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The "visitors" fail their KPIs
The word out on the street is that NOT ONE visitor has met the expectations of QF "management".
No reduction in sick leave from cabin crew despite the bullying and harrassment, no reduction in lost time injuries and not enough one on one "meetings" with us.
Oh the pain........
There appears to be serious disharmony and disquiet developing amongst them with several individuals looking for work elsewhere and those staying vowing to work strictly 9-5.
Bazamundi,
the JFK incident whereby the cabin crew where prevented from exercising their award entitlement is not an isolated one.
The fact that we are not in a position to PROVE it doesnt mean it didn't happen.
No reduction in sick leave from cabin crew despite the bullying and harrassment, no reduction in lost time injuries and not enough one on one "meetings" with us.
Oh the pain........
There appears to be serious disharmony and disquiet developing amongst them with several individuals looking for work elsewhere and those staying vowing to work strictly 9-5.
Bazamundi,
the JFK incident whereby the cabin crew where prevented from exercising their award entitlement is not an isolated one.
The fact that we are not in a position to PROVE it doesnt mean it didn't happen.
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Once again, the Tech crew claim Supremecy
It certainly isn't an isolated incident. I recall a time where we sat at the gate in AKL until 4am waiting to depart to LAX (NLH - need I say more). sio the crew took a vote and the decision was unanimous NOT to go.
That was fine until the captain insisted he could get us there in 9hrs 50 mins, well I don't know how possible this was, I do know we had a full load of Pax, but as for cargo - no idea.
Thing is, it took us nearly 11 hrs to get there, total duty time was just over 20hrs. Were we merely victims of circumstance or did we have the wool pulled over our eyes?
That was fine until the captain insisted he could get us there in 9hrs 50 mins, well I don't know how possible this was, I do know we had a full load of Pax, but as for cargo - no idea.
Thing is, it took us nearly 11 hrs to get there, total duty time was just over 20hrs. Were we merely victims of circumstance or did we have the wool pulled over our eyes?
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Bazza,
Are you telling me that the tech crew would not have known how long the cabin crew had been working and how long their TOD would likely to be given the estimated delay?
Are you telling me the tech crew would not have been told of an estimated taxi time so that they can load sufficient fuel or do you guys just chuck a figure in the air and hope that will be enough?
If you have ever done a boarding(which I doubt) then you will know that the tech crew will be on the interphone every 2 minutes wanting to know when you can close the door.We might physically close the door but you guys tell us when.
The aircraft pushed back and taxied out for one reason only and both of us know what that was for or did the company and the tech crew just want to taxi the aircraft around JFK for a few hours for the fun of it.If the aircraft did not have sufficient fuel for the taxi and flight ,why did they push back or do you just hope that you have put on sufficient fuel and go for it?
That episode was a joke and if that was symptomatic of how each department cares for the other then we will never be able to protect our jobs from Darth and Basil Bow Tie.
Capt Fathom,
Do you think the company loads the underfloor crew rest on the way to say Mumbai and then leave it there because the return sector is under the required time.If that is the case there must be a heck of a lot of crew rests in various ports.
If the crew rest facility is loaded for the flight back why don't they enable it to be used?????
Are you telling me that the tech crew would not have known how long the cabin crew had been working and how long their TOD would likely to be given the estimated delay?
Are you telling me the tech crew would not have been told of an estimated taxi time so that they can load sufficient fuel or do you guys just chuck a figure in the air and hope that will be enough?
If you have ever done a boarding(which I doubt) then you will know that the tech crew will be on the interphone every 2 minutes wanting to know when you can close the door.We might physically close the door but you guys tell us when.
The aircraft pushed back and taxied out for one reason only and both of us know what that was for or did the company and the tech crew just want to taxi the aircraft around JFK for a few hours for the fun of it.If the aircraft did not have sufficient fuel for the taxi and flight ,why did they push back or do you just hope that you have put on sufficient fuel and go for it?
That episode was a joke and if that was symptomatic of how each department cares for the other then we will never be able to protect our jobs from Darth and Basil Bow Tie.
Capt Fathom,
Do you think the company loads the underfloor crew rest on the way to say Mumbai and then leave it there because the return sector is under the required time.If that is the case there must be a heck of a lot of crew rests in various ports.
If the crew rest facility is loaded for the flight back why don't they enable it to be used?????
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The company so kindly block of part of B Zone.
The aircraft is often weight restricted.
A CSM who allows the crew to use that zone for crew rest does so at the risk of being up on a clause 11.
The visitors LOVE that one as it is a free kick.
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Lowerlobe will you kindly enlighten us all as to how you can avoid any taxy delays in NY. Do we close the door and push back, stop the airport and get priority in your perfect world? How else do you expect to depart NY - you have to be in the line to do so. You suggest that the aircraft is taxied around for fun all for the purpose of making the operation illegal and shafting the cabin crew. When all the pax are on board and cargo loaded we close the door and push back if it is departure time. The ground crew strive hard for this as the company focus is on delays at the moment, and their performance is measured on the amount of on time departures in many cases. For them departure is when the aircraft is loaded and doors are closed. If all is ready to go, why is it unreasonable to close the doors and push the aircraft back?
We get an idea of the delays, but these are never accurate. The last time I did the sector the plan gave us the fuel and the option of flying fast in order to get to LA in time to satisfy duty times as well as minimise the onwards delay to Sydney. This plan allows you to save a significant amount of time and costs the company lots of fuel. The sector times are planned on significant time on the ground. We know what the cabin crew duty limits are, and will also enforce them. If we make a decision to do otherwise, the operation becomes illegal and ulitmately it is our licence on the line.
You have an agenda and are happy to spread misinformation and drivel in order to do so. Making serious allegations against individuals without any fact to back them up is a dangerous game.
We get an idea of the delays, but these are never accurate. The last time I did the sector the plan gave us the fuel and the option of flying fast in order to get to LA in time to satisfy duty times as well as minimise the onwards delay to Sydney. This plan allows you to save a significant amount of time and costs the company lots of fuel. The sector times are planned on significant time on the ground. We know what the cabin crew duty limits are, and will also enforce them. If we make a decision to do otherwise, the operation becomes illegal and ulitmately it is our licence on the line.
You have an agenda and are happy to spread misinformation and drivel in order to do so. Making serious allegations against individuals without any fact to back them up is a dangerous game.
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Originally Posted by Bazzamundi
Lowerlobe will you kindly enlighten us all as to how you can avoid any taxy delays in NY.
Apparently there was a QF108 that departed JFK and waiting to depart in a long line.
The Captain made a PA to the pax to explain that it was going to be a long wait.
A pax pressed his call bell and asked the F/A to tell the captain that if he mentions that he is on board on the radio, it may help the situation.
The Captain did so and was subsequently given directions which allowed them to bypass the queue of other aircraft departing and were next to take off!
Thanks Bazzamundi for an informed insight into what is actually going on in the cockpit and shedding light on the fact that it may not be one big conspiracy to make the Cabin Crew work longer.
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I have great compassion for the situation the cabin crew are in re. NY, but this compassion wears very thin when you get the like of a few ill informed individuals willing to use personal agendas to tarnish the operation of others. These people cause more harm than good.
Perhaps Lowerlobe is suggesting that every time we push back, even if it is before the nominated time that crew get to conduct a vote to extend the tour of duty, we should conduct a vote anyhow, just in case some turn of events once underway cause people to have to extend hours over the EBA agreed. Just in case the taxy takes longer than planned, there may be storms/weather/traffic enroute causing a longer flight time, fuel may be low forcing the aircraft to fly slower, the destination weather may unforseenly turn to crap resulting in extra flight time for a diversion, something may go U/S on the taxy causing a return to the gate, the list could go on. You cannot depart a flight with any certainty saying that it will touch down at a precise time in pratical terms, particularly in the States.
As far as the hour requirements go, the crew depart the aircraft with the agreed sector time formula assuming normal operations, with the intention of satisfying firstly the legal requirements and secondly the EBA agreed requirements. If any of the above circumstances happen, we deal with them. You cannot for certain say that the taxy time is going to take X minutes anywhere, particularly NY. I have seen one day where a runway was closed, and as soon as another was opened the aircraft in the back of the line were directed over to the newly opened one thus getting away first.
If the crew feel tired to the extent they are unable to exercise their duties did they make it known? Personally if they said they were tired, even if they were not close to the limit, that would be the end of story in my book.
What are the facts Lowerlobe - ie. once again were you there and do you have all the facts upon which you base your opinions? You imply you are aware of all information regarding discussions between crew, ATC, the fuel state of the aircraft, the planned flight time, weather etc. etc. Or are you just the queen of galley gossip embellishing the facts for the purposes of your continued anger towards all other Qantas employees?
My final say on this matter.
Perhaps Lowerlobe is suggesting that every time we push back, even if it is before the nominated time that crew get to conduct a vote to extend the tour of duty, we should conduct a vote anyhow, just in case some turn of events once underway cause people to have to extend hours over the EBA agreed. Just in case the taxy takes longer than planned, there may be storms/weather/traffic enroute causing a longer flight time, fuel may be low forcing the aircraft to fly slower, the destination weather may unforseenly turn to crap resulting in extra flight time for a diversion, something may go U/S on the taxy causing a return to the gate, the list could go on. You cannot depart a flight with any certainty saying that it will touch down at a precise time in pratical terms, particularly in the States.
As far as the hour requirements go, the crew depart the aircraft with the agreed sector time formula assuming normal operations, with the intention of satisfying firstly the legal requirements and secondly the EBA agreed requirements. If any of the above circumstances happen, we deal with them. You cannot for certain say that the taxy time is going to take X minutes anywhere, particularly NY. I have seen one day where a runway was closed, and as soon as another was opened the aircraft in the back of the line were directed over to the newly opened one thus getting away first.
If the crew feel tired to the extent they are unable to exercise their duties did they make it known? Personally if they said they were tired, even if they were not close to the limit, that would be the end of story in my book.
What are the facts Lowerlobe - ie. once again were you there and do you have all the facts upon which you base your opinions? You imply you are aware of all information regarding discussions between crew, ATC, the fuel state of the aircraft, the planned flight time, weather etc. etc. Or are you just the queen of galley gossip embellishing the facts for the purposes of your continued anger towards all other Qantas employees?
My final say on this matter.
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rlh sickleave
can anyone help me with an answer.
if i go sick on reserve line after i fly the minimum hours
e.g. about 150, is it true i don't get paid for sick leave.
if so do i fill out any documentation?
does this reduce my s/l?
am i required to get medical certificate if not paid?
if i go sick on reserve line after i fly the minimum hours
e.g. about 150, is it true i don't get paid for sick leave.
if so do i fill out any documentation?
does this reduce my s/l?
am i required to get medical certificate if not paid?
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Originally Posted by indamiddle
can anyone help me with an answer.
if i go sick on reserve line after i fly the minimum hours
e.g. about 150, is it true i don't get paid for sick leave.
if so do i fill out any documentation?
does this reduce my s/l?
am i required to get medical certificate if not paid?
if i go sick on reserve line after i fly the minimum hours
e.g. about 150, is it true i don't get paid for sick leave.
if so do i fill out any documentation?
does this reduce my s/l?
am i required to get medical certificate if not paid?
This is the relevant clause from EBAIV
30.3. Approved paid leave
30.3.1. Reserve line holder
A reserve line holder accrues duty hour credits, except for personal
leave, at the rate of the minimum guaranteed hours divided by 56 for each
day of approved paid leave.
A reserve line holder accrues duty hour credits, for personal leave, at
the rate of the full-time minimum guaranteed hours divided by 38 for each
day of approved paid leave, irrespective of whether the flight attendant
is full-time or part-time.
This credit is given in the case of annual leave and long service leave
even if the flight attendant has accrued the minimum guaranteed hours.
The credit is not given in the case of personal leave and jury service,
nor is personal leave debited, once the flight attendant has accrued the
minimum guaranteed hours.
Last edited by twiggs; 10th Jul 2006 at 07:41.
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Speedbird
On the 747-300 B zone is usually blocked off for the crew on long sectors.
eg when it was being used on the LAX AKL LAX sectors B zone was always blocked off, this was in the CCN and it was also issued as a CSM briefing sheet so the CSM would not have been in trouble for allowing the crew to rest there.
indamiddle call the FAAA and ask them, this information is freely available to anyone that is a FAAA member, or if your game call the visitors!
eg when it was being used on the LAX AKL LAX sectors B zone was always blocked off, this was in the CCN and it was also issued as a CSM briefing sheet so the CSM would not have been in trouble for allowing the crew to rest there.
indamiddle call the FAAA and ask them, this information is freely available to anyone that is a FAAA member, or if your game call the visitors!
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correct
B zone is used as crew rest as per CCN on the Lax sectors if there is no UCCRF. but be aware connecting pax from lhr-lax-akl may have a B zone boarding pass. LHR and other stations are not aware of any internal restrictions.
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US route
15 x QF25/26 MEL/AKL/LAX services to be
operated by 2 class B743 instead of 2 class
B744
1 x QF149/8 SYD/LAX service to be operated
by 2 class B744 instead of 3 class Pacific
B744
Due to weight restrictions on the B743 when
operating between LAX and AKL, the
passenger load will be restricted allowing for
zone B to blocked for crew rest.
Suzanne Holden
Manager Cabin Crew Operations
CCN12 16TH MARCH 2006
15 x QF25/26 MEL/AKL/LAX services to be
operated by 2 class B743 instead of 2 class
B744
1 x QF149/8 SYD/LAX service to be operated
by 2 class B744 instead of 3 class Pacific
B744
Due to weight restrictions on the B743 when
operating between LAX and AKL, the
passenger load will be restricted allowing for
zone B to blocked for crew rest.
Suzanne Holden
Manager Cabin Crew Operations
CCN12 16TH MARCH 2006
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Thanks guys.
So NOT having the OHCR is the circumstance that allows the use of B zone.??
There are other sectors where ground staff leave B zone empty due to pax load on the 2 class 400.
Am I correct in my understanding that the use of this zone in this circumstance will have one shot?
So NOT having the OHCR is the circumstance that allows the use of B zone.??
There are other sectors where ground staff leave B zone empty due to pax load on the 2 class 400.
Am I correct in my understanding that the use of this zone in this circumstance will have one shot?
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Over lunch I was reading one of the endless streams of communications from the company and saw that the manager group general finance or similiar was a Mr Gareth Evans.......Is this the same former politician Gareth Gareth who was at one stage trying to get on or into the UN as it's head honcho ?
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Is it true?
Just heard while slipping in "Bad adventures" that GD has been admitted to hospital over some serious illness and has stepped down. And that Jimmy Bow Tie has taken over as "acting" CEO!!!
Any confirmation of this, as crew here are going crazy!!!
Just heard while slipping in "Bad adventures" that GD has been admitted to hospital over some serious illness and has stepped down. And that Jimmy Bow Tie has taken over as "acting" CEO!!!
Any confirmation of this, as crew here are going crazy!!!
