Un-helpful, Un-Crew Orientated, Arrogant Captains
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Un-helpful, Un-Crew Orientated, Arrogant Captains
I am cabin crew for a major British charter airline, based at a very small base where everyone knows everyone, and all is usually very happy and friendly.
However, I am stunned by an incredible lack of support and in my opinion a major misjudgement by a Captain on a recent flight of mine, which has left me upset, angry and worried about flying with this particular Captain in the future… I’ll explain the situation and would welcome any rational replies, as I am unsure whether to pursue the matter, and how to go about it should I decide to do so.
A very early morning check-in, and a normal and uneventful outbound flight and subsequent turnaround on one of the holidaymaker hotspot islands in the Med is the lead up to the story…
We began passenger boarding for the return sector as per normal, and ahead of schedule. Everything at this point was very normal and relaxed. A male passenger who was travelling alone asked my colleague if he could move seats. Due to a very low passenger figure of 70 out of 235 available seats she agreed, and the passenger moved. Unbeknown to anyone at this point, his mobile phone had fallen from his pocket and was left on the vacant seat.
Shortly afterwards, another of my colleagues noticed the mobile phone, and began to ask passengers seated in the adjacent areas if it was theirs. A different male passenger claimed the phone, and the matter was forgotten.
After 10 more minutes the passenger who the phoned actually belonged to realised he had lost it, and asked my colleague if it had been handed in. A brief altercation followed between the crewmember and the 2 male passengers, and the phone was returned.
This is where events turned nasty…
The passenger who had attempted to steal the phone then threatened the other passenger with his life. It also emerged that the potential thief was travelling as part of a party of 32 increasingly disruptive, rude, loud and alcohol fuelled men, all I would guess were in their 20’s – 30’s. A core of about 10 of the men were becoming increasingly abusive and threatening.
At this point the victim of the attempted theft became scared and requested police presence. The Captain was immediately informed, and flatly refused to call the police, as to do so would delay our departure. The owner of the mobile phone persisted, at which point the Captain took him onto the jet bridge, and in the earshot of a colleague of mine told him that unless he stopped making such a fuss, it was he who would be off loaded.
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In a separate incident, minutes later, I was walking slowly down the cabin carrying out a head count. When I got level with the rows in which the passengers were seated, they began loudly abusing me, and threatening me.
Upset and quite scared I requested to the cabin manager that they be off loaded. She agreed, as did the rest of the crew that the passengers must be off loaded, and the police called.
I must add here, that according to my company’s SEP manual these passengers must be off loaded.
The Captain was again informed, and once again flatly refused to off load any passengers, call the police, or do anything about it.
I was nearly in tears, and visibly shaken, after being threatened. I asked the Captain once again to off load the passengers, saying I was scared and didn’t want to be trapped in an aircraft with a group of 32 men who were threatening me. To which I was told that he was the Captain, and I am not to question him.
In a later report the Captain wrote that he did not consider attempted theft, and threats of violence against crewmembers and passengers to be adequate reason to off load passengers.
The flight departed on time, and the cabin crew worked the flight to the best of our ability. Every passenger on board that aircraft knew something was seriously wrong.
We filled in all of our required paper work, including the disruptive passenger reports. The Cabin Manager, myself, the rest of the crew, and the passenger who had had threats made against him requested police presence at our UK destination airport. The Captain did not call the police.
It is a requirement of the company, and stated clearly that the Captain must sign the disruptive passenger report and all other reports regarding the incident, and they be faxed immediately to our airlines head office. Therefore the cabin crew spent an hour in the crew room post flight completing the paper work. The Captain went immediately home without signing anything.
I don’t recognise the behaviour of this Captain as being the norm for any of the other Captains in the airline I work for. The Cabin Manager assured me that any other Captain at our base would have acted in line with the SEP manual, and offloaded the passengers.
However, I am shocked by this incredible lack of respect for the safety and piece of mind of the passengers and crew aboard this flight. At no point did the Captain use effective CRM, and he did not take into account the view of 6 upset and scared crewmembers. I don’t think that cabin crew go to work to be threatened and abused by our passengers.
Ironically, I went into a café at the airport with my colleagues after the incident to un-wind and talk things through. There was a large sign hanging behind the counter, which read that abusive behaviour, and threats of violence against the café staff would not be accepted, the police would be called, and the full backup of the café chain would be given to staff to press charges against the offenders. Obviously our Captain does not own that café!
However, I am stunned by an incredible lack of support and in my opinion a major misjudgement by a Captain on a recent flight of mine, which has left me upset, angry and worried about flying with this particular Captain in the future… I’ll explain the situation and would welcome any rational replies, as I am unsure whether to pursue the matter, and how to go about it should I decide to do so.
A very early morning check-in, and a normal and uneventful outbound flight and subsequent turnaround on one of the holidaymaker hotspot islands in the Med is the lead up to the story…
We began passenger boarding for the return sector as per normal, and ahead of schedule. Everything at this point was very normal and relaxed. A male passenger who was travelling alone asked my colleague if he could move seats. Due to a very low passenger figure of 70 out of 235 available seats she agreed, and the passenger moved. Unbeknown to anyone at this point, his mobile phone had fallen from his pocket and was left on the vacant seat.
Shortly afterwards, another of my colleagues noticed the mobile phone, and began to ask passengers seated in the adjacent areas if it was theirs. A different male passenger claimed the phone, and the matter was forgotten.
After 10 more minutes the passenger who the phoned actually belonged to realised he had lost it, and asked my colleague if it had been handed in. A brief altercation followed between the crewmember and the 2 male passengers, and the phone was returned.
This is where events turned nasty…
The passenger who had attempted to steal the phone then threatened the other passenger with his life. It also emerged that the potential thief was travelling as part of a party of 32 increasingly disruptive, rude, loud and alcohol fuelled men, all I would guess were in their 20’s – 30’s. A core of about 10 of the men were becoming increasingly abusive and threatening.
At this point the victim of the attempted theft became scared and requested police presence. The Captain was immediately informed, and flatly refused to call the police, as to do so would delay our departure. The owner of the mobile phone persisted, at which point the Captain took him onto the jet bridge, and in the earshot of a colleague of mine told him that unless he stopped making such a fuss, it was he who would be off loaded.
--------
In a separate incident, minutes later, I was walking slowly down the cabin carrying out a head count. When I got level with the rows in which the passengers were seated, they began loudly abusing me, and threatening me.
Upset and quite scared I requested to the cabin manager that they be off loaded. She agreed, as did the rest of the crew that the passengers must be off loaded, and the police called.
I must add here, that according to my company’s SEP manual these passengers must be off loaded.
The Captain was again informed, and once again flatly refused to off load any passengers, call the police, or do anything about it.
I was nearly in tears, and visibly shaken, after being threatened. I asked the Captain once again to off load the passengers, saying I was scared and didn’t want to be trapped in an aircraft with a group of 32 men who were threatening me. To which I was told that he was the Captain, and I am not to question him.
In a later report the Captain wrote that he did not consider attempted theft, and threats of violence against crewmembers and passengers to be adequate reason to off load passengers.
The flight departed on time, and the cabin crew worked the flight to the best of our ability. Every passenger on board that aircraft knew something was seriously wrong.
We filled in all of our required paper work, including the disruptive passenger reports. The Cabin Manager, myself, the rest of the crew, and the passenger who had had threats made against him requested police presence at our UK destination airport. The Captain did not call the police.
It is a requirement of the company, and stated clearly that the Captain must sign the disruptive passenger report and all other reports regarding the incident, and they be faxed immediately to our airlines head office. Therefore the cabin crew spent an hour in the crew room post flight completing the paper work. The Captain went immediately home without signing anything.
I don’t recognise the behaviour of this Captain as being the norm for any of the other Captains in the airline I work for. The Cabin Manager assured me that any other Captain at our base would have acted in line with the SEP manual, and offloaded the passengers.
However, I am shocked by this incredible lack of respect for the safety and piece of mind of the passengers and crew aboard this flight. At no point did the Captain use effective CRM, and he did not take into account the view of 6 upset and scared crewmembers. I don’t think that cabin crew go to work to be threatened and abused by our passengers.
Ironically, I went into a café at the airport with my colleagues after the incident to un-wind and talk things through. There was a large sign hanging behind the counter, which read that abusive behaviour, and threats of violence against the café staff would not be accepted, the police would be called, and the full backup of the café chain would be given to staff to press charges against the offenders. Obviously our Captain does not own that café!
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If the Captain was breaching your company policies and safety guidelines..... your Cabin Manager should have informed him that he/she was making a PA asking the customers to disembark and that the cabin crew were leaving the aircraft, would not be operating the sector until the company policies and safety guidelines were met (ie the group offloaded). Thats what I would have done!
If the reason for crew refusing to operate were genuine safety concerns and following procedures, the company would not have much recourse agaisnt the crew. Indeed the Captain would then have to explain to the company why he breached company safety rules.
Remember, the Captain is a leader of a team. He can only be effective that way if the team will as he directs. Once the Captain can not get the team to comply, he ceases to be the leader.
Management of airlines cannot have faith in leaders which cannot effectively direct crew. They would frown seriously on any Captain who cannot effectively lead ..... if the crew walk out on a Captain, his leadership skills would be called into question.
If the reason for crew refusing to operate were genuine safety concerns and following procedures, the company would not have much recourse agaisnt the crew. Indeed the Captain would then have to explain to the company why he breached company safety rules.
Remember, the Captain is a leader of a team. He can only be effective that way if the team will as he directs. Once the Captain can not get the team to comply, he ceases to be the leader.
Management of airlines cannot have faith in leaders which cannot effectively direct crew. They would frown seriously on any Captain who cannot effectively lead ..... if the crew walk out on a Captain, his leadership skills would be called into question.
If I had been your Cabin Manager I would have pulled the entire crew off the aircraft, with or without the captains support, and not returned until the offenders were offloaded. There is no place on an aircraft for morons like that.
Unfortunately some skippers, for reasons such as commercial pressures, duty time limitations or an inability to put themselves in someone elses shoes, may appear unwilling to support their crew. I must say the vast majority of tech crew I have operated with have been incredibly supportive and have allowed me to make the call. Unfortunately, and as is evident in your case, there are a few who don't. The captain has ultimate responsibility for the safety of the aircraft, and as far as I'm concerned that includes you. For him/her not to support you in this instance is pretty poor form and would have warrented serious words post flight.
My flight attendant days are over and I am now a pilot. If I ever gain a command my crew will ALWAYS be able to count on my support as I truely know what life can be like beyond that flight deck door.
Unfortunately some skippers, for reasons such as commercial pressures, duty time limitations or an inability to put themselves in someone elses shoes, may appear unwilling to support their crew. I must say the vast majority of tech crew I have operated with have been incredibly supportive and have allowed me to make the call. Unfortunately, and as is evident in your case, there are a few who don't. The captain has ultimate responsibility for the safety of the aircraft, and as far as I'm concerned that includes you. For him/her not to support you in this instance is pretty poor form and would have warrented serious words post flight.
My flight attendant days are over and I am now a pilot. If I ever gain a command my crew will ALWAYS be able to count on my support as I truely know what life can be like beyond that flight deck door.
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FJW sorry to see you under these circumstances. 
What a rotten story!
I went through something similar a few years back and it resulted in getting beaten up by the pax involved. Like your captain, ours did zilch and went home. Happy to say that after all our reports were handed in and we had been called in by both the Chief Pilot and the Chief Cabin Crew, things got sorted out very nicely.
It took a few months but our captain was made to go on a special CRM course and he flew under supervision for 3 months afterwards to see him demonstarte what he had learned. If your company is solid, your reports will lead to something similar happening with your captain.
After what happened to me I decided that next time I seriously disagreed with a captain about such an issue, I'd do exactly as Q-tee suggests. With the captain being the unquestionable boss of the aircraft, disembarking the cabin crew is the only viable option we have.
In the 3 years I have now been purser, I have only once had to hint at my resolve to disembark all FAs for the captain to realise that we were not going to be bullied into doing as he wanted. The pax in question were off-loaded without further ado, the captain apologised for under estimating situation and all was peace and light after that.
As you are not a Purser/CabMan or whatever you call it in your company, you can obviously not decide to disembark the whole crew. But after what you have been through on this flight, I am sure you will be able tomake a powerful case for it shoudl you ever come into a similar situation. Also keep in mind that even you yourself always do have the option to leave when you feel severely threatened.
In the years I have flown I have learned to trust my instincts on disruptive pax and hairy sutuations. If you gut tells you this feels WRONG, it probably is. Either pax or the FAs will leave the AC and don't let anybody tell you different!!
You say that you are not sure if you should persue the matter? Apart from handing in written reports, what else can you do? First thing is to keep in touch with your CAbMAn of that flight I'd think. He or she will most likely be updated by the company as to what developments are taking place.
Secondly, find out if your company provides access to a mental health care professional. Being threatened this way is really scary and can leave you with something akin to post traumatic stress disorder. Not funny and not needed. I talked to the company shrink 3 times after the above episode, and after that I felt
again. Even better, I now understand the mechanisms that lead to stress-under-threat and know pretty wel how to handle them when I see it in colleagues.
Good luck!
PS: Pigheaded CRM-ignorant Captains are thankfully few and far between, and usually well known to their Chief Pilot. The very same Chief Pilot who knows he's got a baddy in the ranks but whose hands are tied by the fact the he needs written complaints before he can do anything!
What a rotten story!I went through something similar a few years back and it resulted in getting beaten up by the pax involved. Like your captain, ours did zilch and went home. Happy to say that after all our reports were handed in and we had been called in by both the Chief Pilot and the Chief Cabin Crew, things got sorted out very nicely.
It took a few months but our captain was made to go on a special CRM course and he flew under supervision for 3 months afterwards to see him demonstarte what he had learned. If your company is solid, your reports will lead to something similar happening with your captain.
After what happened to me I decided that next time I seriously disagreed with a captain about such an issue, I'd do exactly as Q-tee suggests. With the captain being the unquestionable boss of the aircraft, disembarking the cabin crew is the only viable option we have.
In the 3 years I have now been purser, I have only once had to hint at my resolve to disembark all FAs for the captain to realise that we were not going to be bullied into doing as he wanted. The pax in question were off-loaded without further ado, the captain apologised for under estimating situation and all was peace and light after that.
As you are not a Purser/CabMan or whatever you call it in your company, you can obviously not decide to disembark the whole crew. But after what you have been through on this flight, I am sure you will be able tomake a powerful case for it shoudl you ever come into a similar situation. Also keep in mind that even you yourself always do have the option to leave when you feel severely threatened.
In the years I have flown I have learned to trust my instincts on disruptive pax and hairy sutuations. If you gut tells you this feels WRONG, it probably is. Either pax or the FAs will leave the AC and don't let anybody tell you different!!
You say that you are not sure if you should persue the matter? Apart from handing in written reports, what else can you do? First thing is to keep in touch with your CAbMAn of that flight I'd think. He or she will most likely be updated by the company as to what developments are taking place.
Secondly, find out if your company provides access to a mental health care professional. Being threatened this way is really scary and can leave you with something akin to post traumatic stress disorder. Not funny and not needed. I talked to the company shrink 3 times after the above episode, and after that I felt
again. Even better, I now understand the mechanisms that lead to stress-under-threat and know pretty wel how to handle them when I see it in colleagues.Good luck!
PS: Pigheaded CRM-ignorant Captains are thankfully few and far between, and usually well known to their Chief Pilot. The very same Chief Pilot who knows he's got a baddy in the ranks but whose hands are tied by the fact the he needs written complaints before he can do anything!
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whats wrong with the guy[assuming its a guy].if my crew is not happy about any pax,i dont leave the gate till they are satisfied with the conduct/appearance of the pax. and no one can pressurize me in taking the pax without the nod from my crew.complaints dont work specially since nothing happened [thank god for that]. he will be called up and he will say but larry 30 pax into 1oo dollars is alot of money which i made for the company.and he will get off looking like the good guy. you see all airlines secretly just want to make money[as if thats a secret].
my advise is to bury it and think your actions through for the next time something similar happens.cheers and safe flying
my advise is to bury it and think your actions through for the next time something similar happens.cheers and safe flying
Your captain sounds like an absolute prat. Obviously not a team player in any sense of the word. It worries me that there are people responsible for 200+ lives out there who behave in this way.
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The question that begged to be asked is after the flight departed on time with all pax on board was there any hint of unlawful behaviour towards the cabin crew during the flight or disembarkation.
If not then maybe the Captain exercised the correct judgement
If not then maybe the Captain exercised the correct judgement
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fastjet wannabe
What a horrible experience.
With hindsight, (of course), was it not possible to get the name(s) of the passenger(s) who threatened you from the manifest and make a private complaint to the police?
I am surprised that your manager did not suggest it. There is of course the risk that the company would penalise you for fear of losing such "valuable" passengers.
Try and get a job with a company that values its employees more.
And make friends with a pharmacist who can recommend a slow acting, powerful and preferably tasteless emetic, that you can add to the last drink of such passengers before landing, served with your most stunning smile.
Just kidding.
What a horrible experience.
With hindsight, (of course), was it not possible to get the name(s) of the passenger(s) who threatened you from the manifest and make a private complaint to the police?
I am surprised that your manager did not suggest it. There is of course the risk that the company would penalise you for fear of losing such "valuable" passengers.
Try and get a job with a company that values its employees more.
And make friends with a pharmacist who can recommend a slow acting, powerful and preferably tasteless emetic, that you can add to the last drink of such passengers before landing, served with your most stunning smile.
Just kidding.
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I totally agree with you, at the end of the day its the Cabin Crew who have to put up with pax's the flight deck can just lock the doors.
There should be ZERO tolorence for abusive passengers, if this had happened in Saudi Arabia or Singapore, they would have got a good lashing, and would think twice about doing something like that again!
There should be ZERO tolorence for abusive passengers, if this had happened in Saudi Arabia or Singapore, they would have got a good lashing, and would think twice about doing something like that again!
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FJW,
I'm so sorry to hear about what you had to go through.
I'm cabin crew too and always worry about something like this happening when we have some rowdy groups on our flights esp. on a friday night Prague flight.
But I know that whatever happens I hope we can rely on the guys up front to help us out by means of diverting and/or calling the police to deal with the situation upon arrival. To think that your flightdeck are there for you in a situation like that and to find that they in fact have little/no interest in the well-being of their passengers but most importantly their colleagues is downright out of order and quite frankly scary.
When we get these types of pax on board I always think 'well at least the flightdeck are there to support us should things get out of hand'. It just shows you that this just isn't the case, OK not 95% of the time but with a select few older and probably ex-military pilots shall I say, CRM is regarded as nonsense. It was a Captain with this attitude who was in command during the Kegworth disaster.
Thankfully as someone else said these pilots are beginning to retire and are few and far between.
Definately go to Chirp if no one else, I know someone on the Chirp board and you will find them extremely helpful. It is all done in confidence too.
Take care, I hope this gets sorted out for yours and your pax's sake.
Tri
I'm so sorry to hear about what you had to go through.
I'm cabin crew too and always worry about something like this happening when we have some rowdy groups on our flights esp. on a friday night Prague flight.
But I know that whatever happens I hope we can rely on the guys up front to help us out by means of diverting and/or calling the police to deal with the situation upon arrival. To think that your flightdeck are there for you in a situation like that and to find that they in fact have little/no interest in the well-being of their passengers but most importantly their colleagues is downright out of order and quite frankly scary.
When we get these types of pax on board I always think 'well at least the flightdeck are there to support us should things get out of hand'. It just shows you that this just isn't the case, OK not 95% of the time but with a select few older and probably ex-military pilots shall I say, CRM is regarded as nonsense. It was a Captain with this attitude who was in command during the Kegworth disaster.
Thankfully as someone else said these pilots are beginning to retire and are few and far between.
Definately go to Chirp if no one else, I know someone on the Chirp board and you will find them extremely helpful. It is all done in confidence too.
Take care, I hope this gets sorted out for yours and your pax's sake.
Tri
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Speaking as a frequent flyer from the pax point of view, I've seen a few similar but thankfully not as serious incidents. I'm amazed at the number of spineless pax who seem to put up with anything rather than make a fuss. Its about time the silent (pax) majority put these thugs in their place. I take it no other passengers offered any support to the cabin crew in this incident.
I'm absolutely appalled at the captains behaviour and I must say it doesn't give me much confidence in his ability to fly me safely to my destination. He sounds like the 'old school' type who insists he knows everything and his authority is supreme, then proceeds to fly you into the nearest mountain because he's too pig-headed to take advice from the right-hand seat.
I can only offer my commiserations. Rest assured some passengers think you do a great job.
airsmiles
I'm absolutely appalled at the captains behaviour and I must say it doesn't give me much confidence in his ability to fly me safely to my destination. He sounds like the 'old school' type who insists he knows everything and his authority is supreme, then proceeds to fly you into the nearest mountain because he's too pig-headed to take advice from the right-hand seat.
I can only offer my commiserations. Rest assured some passengers think you do a great job.
airsmiles
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Fastjet my heart goes out to you as I too have had the "pleasure" of working with a skipper who thinks that he is always right and beyond reproach.
If your company SOP`s state that the level of behaviour such as this from your "guest" is unacceptable and warrants offloading then the Captain is in breach of Co procedures and should face the relevant consequences. i.e. disciplinary investigation/proceedings.
Lets face it if you did something against Co policy/procedure you`d be in the office quicker than Posh spice can go shopping!!!!
You would have been within your rights if you had "an honest held belief" that yours, your crew and passengers safety were in danger from these "guests" to insist on police presence.
Most airlines within the UK have a confidential inhouse reporting system as well as CHIRP.
If all your co workers are unanimous in feeling that the Capt did not act according to Co standards then I would consider contacting your Flight Ops director or the Flight crew Manager.
It may only be an isolated case but then it could be a common occurence for him do ya want to rely on him in an emergency if he thinks "his way " is Right???
If your company SOP`s state that the level of behaviour such as this from your "guest" is unacceptable and warrants offloading then the Captain is in breach of Co procedures and should face the relevant consequences. i.e. disciplinary investigation/proceedings.
Lets face it if you did something against Co policy/procedure you`d be in the office quicker than Posh spice can go shopping!!!!
You would have been within your rights if you had "an honest held belief" that yours, your crew and passengers safety were in danger from these "guests" to insist on police presence.
Most airlines within the UK have a confidential inhouse reporting system as well as CHIRP.
If all your co workers are unanimous in feeling that the Capt did not act according to Co standards then I would consider contacting your Flight Ops director or the Flight crew Manager.
It may only be an isolated case but then it could be a common occurence for him do ya want to rely on him in an emergency if he thinks "his way " is Right???
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I know FJW, so therefore am very interested in his reactions to this issue, and the implications implied......
It's easy for me to say that as a Captain, there is no way this situation would EVER have got close to what is related here........
However, as a second officer..... I sat next to someone who for 8 hours refused to talk to me, and refused to let me do a single thing on the flight, be it turn the heading knob, or a simple radio call. I also sat next to someone similar who only allowed me to say anything when I knew the answer to a particular navigation problem... and then only as a last resort. Then.. it resorted to normal with me not touching or doing anything for the rest of the flight....
It's a human issue. You have to listen to the crew.... sometimes, you might make a different decision than the one they want, but if you do then you should be able to back it up by mutually acceptable arguments... the time/delay/inconvenience argument does not wash in the scenario outlined here.
The most important thing is not to demonise Captains, or First Officers, or Senior Crew members en masse merely on the debate of the inappropriate response of one human being, but rather to learn, and move one.
It's easy for me to say that as a Captain, there is no way this situation would EVER have got close to what is related here........
However, as a second officer..... I sat next to someone who for 8 hours refused to talk to me, and refused to let me do a single thing on the flight, be it turn the heading knob, or a simple radio call. I also sat next to someone similar who only allowed me to say anything when I knew the answer to a particular navigation problem... and then only as a last resort. Then.. it resorted to normal with me not touching or doing anything for the rest of the flight....
It's a human issue. You have to listen to the crew.... sometimes, you might make a different decision than the one they want, but if you do then you should be able to back it up by mutually acceptable arguments... the time/delay/inconvenience argument does not wash in the scenario outlined here.
The most important thing is not to demonise Captains, or First Officers, or Senior Crew members en masse merely on the debate of the inappropriate response of one human being, but rather to learn, and move one.
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I horrified that in this day and age, after all the incidents that have shown to have been directly caused by poor crm, and indirectly, that there are people within the aviation industry that still have this "Russian Roulette" attitude, towards their crew and responsibilites.
Soon afer joining my company we had a similar incident on board one of my flights. After the airport being besieged with a freak snow storm, we had to wait for de-icing. When a group of pax became surprisingly vocal, and frankly threating to the cabin crew (i was witnessing this occurring from the rear galley of a 737) i interphoned the flight deck to do something. Well he didn't and even with the senior pleading through the door for the captain to get the pax offloaded and to come out and help (this capt was very big!!) he refused, and refused to call for the ramp agents to come back to ofload the pax (on a remote stand). Thankfully Easyjet been a very open company, and senority doesn't get in the way when it comes to saftey or following company policies, the senior took out her mobile phone and threatend to call HQ. At this point the capt came out saw the situation and then got the pax off loaded.
When we got back to base, the senior refused to let the capt go home before she took him to a side room and gave him what for, after filling a report its nice to see the capt is walking about with less of an attitude.
I would hate to think what would have happend if the senior didn't have the balls to confront the capt as i truly believe that these pax would have full on assulted the us (crew) either there on the ground or worse in the air.
NEVER take the risk when it comes to agro pax, we all know that flying has funny effects on peoples sanity. And you should never think that just because your a "junior" that you don't have a say in matters if you think saftey (personal/general) is being comprimised, could you live with a guilt that perhaps your lack of speaking up caused a serious incident?
well theres my "few" words of wisdom!!!!
Take care out there and lets all keep safe
Soon afer joining my company we had a similar incident on board one of my flights. After the airport being besieged with a freak snow storm, we had to wait for de-icing. When a group of pax became surprisingly vocal, and frankly threating to the cabin crew (i was witnessing this occurring from the rear galley of a 737) i interphoned the flight deck to do something. Well he didn't and even with the senior pleading through the door for the captain to get the pax offloaded and to come out and help (this capt was very big!!) he refused, and refused to call for the ramp agents to come back to ofload the pax (on a remote stand). Thankfully Easyjet been a very open company, and senority doesn't get in the way when it comes to saftey or following company policies, the senior took out her mobile phone and threatend to call HQ. At this point the capt came out saw the situation and then got the pax off loaded.
When we got back to base, the senior refused to let the capt go home before she took him to a side room and gave him what for, after filling a report its nice to see the capt is walking about with less of an attitude.
I would hate to think what would have happend if the senior didn't have the balls to confront the capt as i truly believe that these pax would have full on assulted the us (crew) either there on the ground or worse in the air.
NEVER take the risk when it comes to agro pax, we all know that flying has funny effects on peoples sanity. And you should never think that just because your a "junior" that you don't have a say in matters if you think saftey (personal/general) is being comprimised, could you live with a guilt that perhaps your lack of speaking up caused a serious incident?
well theres my "few" words of wisdom!!!!
Take care out there and lets all keep safe
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
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I'm sorry to hear of your incident too - what a horrible day for you all.
It looks like you have pretty much 100% support on here for his indefensible actions.
Thank god the situation didn't turn any uglier for you with these thugs.
You do get the odd captain who doesn't live in the real world , and these are the type that live in a permanent state of denial.
Obviously , this particular l*ser woudl rather sacrifice your personal safety and wellbeing for the sake of him getting a pat on the back for getting the aircraft back on time
The fact that he conveniently disappeared after the flight without filing a report and checking up on you guys backs up this apathetic stance.
I would approach your line manager too with the backup of your crew.
Use the CHIRP system, it will definitely make you feel better, as he is accountable and will have to defend his (indefensible) actions.
Supposing that these guys had turned on you and your crew causing the apalling types of injuries we have seen before us????
I had a similar 'denial' captain once onboard a flight in to Italy.
The turbulence for the last 20 mins was horrendous - the flight crew had been informed it would be really bad - another airline captain told us, but he didnt bother to inform the cabin.
I received 2 head injuries, the rest of the crew were injured and the plane felt like it was about to be ripped apart .
We had to crawl to our seats with pax holding us to the floor.
People were screaming and crying and the cabin was a mess.
The captain didn't say one word to the passengers , and when we got on the tarmac for our nightstop he behaved as if nothing had happened. - a new girl had bruising on her neck from her injuries.
I absolutely tore a strip off him, i've never shouted so loud in my life.
He was trying to brush it under the carpet without even so much as an apology or explanation of his actions.
He didn't give a damn about our physical wellbeing , let alone the terror we had just been put through.
Disgusting.
It looks like you have pretty much 100% support on here for his indefensible actions.
Thank god the situation didn't turn any uglier for you with these thugs.
You do get the odd captain who doesn't live in the real world , and these are the type that live in a permanent state of denial.
Obviously , this particular l*ser woudl rather sacrifice your personal safety and wellbeing for the sake of him getting a pat on the back for getting the aircraft back on time
The fact that he conveniently disappeared after the flight without filing a report and checking up on you guys backs up this apathetic stance.
I would approach your line manager too with the backup of your crew.
Use the CHIRP system, it will definitely make you feel better, as he is accountable and will have to defend his (indefensible) actions.
Supposing that these guys had turned on you and your crew causing the apalling types of injuries we have seen before us????
I had a similar 'denial' captain once onboard a flight in to Italy.
The turbulence for the last 20 mins was horrendous - the flight crew had been informed it would be really bad - another airline captain told us, but he didnt bother to inform the cabin.
I received 2 head injuries, the rest of the crew were injured and the plane felt like it was about to be ripped apart .
We had to crawl to our seats with pax holding us to the floor.
People were screaming and crying and the cabin was a mess.
The captain didn't say one word to the passengers , and when we got on the tarmac for our nightstop he behaved as if nothing had happened. - a new girl had bruising on her neck from her injuries.
I absolutely tore a strip off him, i've never shouted so loud in my life.
He was trying to brush it under the carpet without even so much as an apology or explanation of his actions.
He didn't give a damn about our physical wellbeing , let alone the terror we had just been put through.
Disgusting.
Last edited by Anti-ice; 25th May 2004 at 23:31.