Flying to Basra (Iraq)
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I can't believe that any airline would send you there! What is the general feeling amongst those that you work with? I would be very unhappy to fly to Iraq, even President Bush is working quickly to pull US troops out of Iraq because of the ever increasing security threat there. You certainly do deserve danger money. If I was you I would have a lot of questions and concerns to raise with your employer before agreeing to these flights!
quote from Daily Mail Sat 15th Nov
"Suicide bombers in Iraq are planning to attack targets in the heart of the British-controlled city of Basra, intelligence has warned.
Security has been stepped up dramatically, with roadblocks and vehicle searches increased, after the warning that bombers are believed to be in Iraq's second city already."
Hope I've not scared you but think you are very right to be concerned.
chic x
quote from Daily Mail Sat 15th Nov
"Suicide bombers in Iraq are planning to attack targets in the heart of the British-controlled city of Basra, intelligence has warned.
Security has been stepped up dramatically, with roadblocks and vehicle searches increased, after the warning that bombers are believed to be in Iraq's second city already."
Hope I've not scared you but think you are very right to be concerned.
chic x
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I should have guessed that this would appear here after yesterday's little e-mail spat. I thought enough linen had been washed in public yesterday?
In case it had escaped your notice, the contract to Basra is to carry armed forces personnel. If you get shot down then so do 100+ UK soldiers. I hardly think the MoD would be asking an unarmed civilian airline to fly there if it thought there was any risk of that happening - it is in their interest to avoid it as much as it is in yours.
I don't mind the sound of a three-day trip to Cyprus to do this flight. It's got to be better than sitting on your backside at home doing nothing or one or two other flights that I could name!
In case it had escaped your notice, the contract to Basra is to carry armed forces personnel. If you get shot down then so do 100+ UK soldiers. I hardly think the MoD would be asking an unarmed civilian airline to fly there if it thought there was any risk of that happening - it is in their interest to avoid it as much as it is in yours.
I don't mind the sound of a three-day trip to Cyprus to do this flight. It's got to be better than sitting on your backside at home doing nothing or one or two other flights that I could name!
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Flyhalf, are you serious! The MoD class squaddies as freight, I would certainly be asking for at least 1000% pay to take freight into any hot areas.
By the way, how are the anti missile defences on your a/c? Since all the RAF chaps on C130's aren't exactly keen to go there, why on earth is it acceptable to go there in an unprotected civvy machine?
By the way, how are the anti missile defences on your a/c? Since all the RAF chaps on C130's aren't exactly keen to go there, why on earth is it acceptable to go there in an unprotected civvy machine?
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By the looks of things, Sweety, none of the respondents so far have been helpful, nor are likely to have operated.
I've been 7 times over the last three months with my company. Like you I was a little apprehensive to start, but I had reassurance from people I trust within the company. I suppose thats what makes the difference, fo me anyway.
Anyway back to the charters. They were very straightforward, and a better lot of passengers than I am used to. We tech-stopped in Akrotiri with a very starightforward turnaround. On two of my trips I had the minimum rest in Cyprus, on the others I had a three day layover with the Cyprus which was very pleasant and much welcomed in the middle of winter.
The Basra turnarounds were about 3 hours, and you don't leave the aircraft.
I did feel for the young troops going out on duty, as it's a big unknown for them, so I did my best to make the trip enjoyable for them. My contribution I suppose.
There was no talk of "danger money".
On some of the days we were there I saw a number of other charter carriers.
Now if you want to talk dangerous, try BAKU nightstops , which I did earlier in the year when we couldn't go to Bahrein.
I've been 7 times over the last three months with my company. Like you I was a little apprehensive to start, but I had reassurance from people I trust within the company. I suppose thats what makes the difference, fo me anyway.
Anyway back to the charters. They were very straightforward, and a better lot of passengers than I am used to. We tech-stopped in Akrotiri with a very starightforward turnaround. On two of my trips I had the minimum rest in Cyprus, on the others I had a three day layover with the Cyprus which was very pleasant and much welcomed in the middle of winter.
The Basra turnarounds were about 3 hours, and you don't leave the aircraft.
I did feel for the young troops going out on duty, as it's a big unknown for them, so I did my best to make the trip enjoyable for them. My contribution I suppose.
There was no talk of "danger money".
On some of the days we were there I saw a number of other charter carriers.
Now if you want to talk dangerous, try BAKU nightstops , which I did earlier in the year when we couldn't go to Bahrein.
Last edited by Trol E Doll; 16th Nov 2003 at 17:36.
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As a driver I've been there a couple of times recently, the missus a few more than me.
In this day and age I found it actually reassuring that there was someone watching your back in places like Basra. I had a colleague down in Mombasa ( heard no complaints about going there) on the day someone tried to take out the Tel Aviv flight with an anti-aircraft missile. And just how reassured were the passengers on September 11th about their safety?
I tell you what, Sweety, why not ask the troops on board if they are getting " danger money" for doing their job? I would suggest that these flights would be some of the safest you can do at the moment, in terms of security, with the might of two professional armed forces keeping you safe, as opposed to a team of poorly paid and inadequately trained airport security people.
In this day and age I found it actually reassuring that there was someone watching your back in places like Basra. I had a colleague down in Mombasa ( heard no complaints about going there) on the day someone tried to take out the Tel Aviv flight with an anti-aircraft missile. And just how reassured were the passengers on September 11th about their safety?
I tell you what, Sweety, why not ask the troops on board if they are getting " danger money" for doing their job? I would suggest that these flights would be some of the safest you can do at the moment, in terms of security, with the might of two professional armed forces keeping you safe, as opposed to a team of poorly paid and inadequately trained airport security people.
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Have to agree with jmc-man, the BSR operations have been incredibly successful....working with the RAF is great and we've had no trouble of any kind since the start, which was back in June. We've been going twice a week through AKT...
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I would be very unhappy to fly to Iraq, even President Bush is working quickly to pull US troops out of Iraq because of the ever increasing security threat there.
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Having flown into basrah 3 times in the past 3 weeks I have no problems flying there and i can say it is far safer then flying into any U.K or U.S airport. The tallest building for 25 miles is the control tower and with a 10 mile secure area around the airfield patrolled with coalition troops all equipped with NVG's (Night Vision goggles) and a sweep by the RAF before we land and departed i would say it is safer than most places at the moment. I for one have no problems with the place!!
Sweety do we know each other??????
Sweety do we know each other??????
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I am de ''BASRAH BABE'' and I rule!!
I love all aircrew both civil and military and allways go out of my way to make them feel special and welcome in my port.
Please keep me and my friends happy by bringing me milk, tea, coffee, minerals, newspapers, beers and anything else from home.
B B
I love all aircrew both civil and military and allways go out of my way to make them feel special and welcome in my port.
Please keep me and my friends happy by bringing me milk, tea, coffee, minerals, newspapers, beers and anything else from home.
B B
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I have also flown to BSR recently, and do share your concern. I have never had any problems, but still, did not expect to be flying to a war zone. There has been a recent security alert, at the airport, while a crew was there, although I don't know the details... The companies that are operating to BSR are hardly going to tell their staff it is unsafe to fly here, but at the end of the day it would be nice if, instead of jumping down our throats every time anyone mentions individual fears, we were given some support and kept updated of any incidents that occur that may affect operating crews.. I have experienced concern from friends and family about operating to Iraq, which is entirely justified, because I can't go back to them and tell them anyhthing other than "our company says it wouldn't send us there if it wasn't safe"
So sweety, I to am not entirely happy about it either, but feel that my company finds it irritating if crew keep harping on about it.
So sweety, I to am not entirely happy about it either, but feel that my company finds it irritating if crew keep harping on about it.
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sweety, looks like you have totally mastered "The Art of PPRuNing".
Separate the stuff spouted by the less than helpful/knowledgeable from the genuine info supplied by colleagues who have real time experience and are wiling to share it.
Invaluable information that you wouldn't be able to obtain any other way.
The beauty of PPRuNing.
Let us know what is was like after you've done your first Basra?
Separate the stuff spouted by the less than helpful/knowledgeable from the genuine info supplied by colleagues who have real time experience and are wiling to share it.
Invaluable information that you wouldn't be able to obtain any other way.
The beauty of PPRuNing.
Let us know what is was like after you've done your first Basra?
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I think it's very sad that it will take an incident such as the missile hit in Baghdad this morning or another future incident to make people admit that it is very dangerous to fly to Iraq at the moment.
I hope that the commercial airlines come to their senses quickly before sending crews out there. It's all about making money, the welfare of personnel comes second. Glad I don't have to do any of these flights.
I hope that the commercial airlines come to their senses quickly before sending crews out there. It's all about making money, the welfare of personnel comes second. Glad I don't have to do any of these flights.
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Have a little faith in your company security!!!! believe me they would not send you to a place where they are not 110 % happy with the operation, do you really think they will send their million pounds aircraft and its crew and more imprtantly its REPUTATION on the line...
Try working for a carrier that goes to Iran, Syria, Jordan. Baku, beirut, on a regular basis, we have complete faith in our system and as safe as they may be things can change at little notice and the company keeps us advised and if in doubt will pull the route if need be untill things have resolved..
And for the person that mentioned BAKU when bahrain was not a option, believe me this is one of our SAFER places so you were VERY SAFE there trust me!!!
Try working for a carrier that goes to Iran, Syria, Jordan. Baku, beirut, on a regular basis, we have complete faith in our system and as safe as they may be things can change at little notice and the company keeps us advised and if in doubt will pull the route if need be untill things have resolved..
And for the person that mentioned BAKU when bahrain was not a option, believe me this is one of our SAFER places so you were VERY SAFE there trust me!!!
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I cannot belive people still think it is acceptable to fly into ANY war zone in a unprotected civvy a/c. If Basra is safe then why are the military still using combat procedures with the Hercs?
Iran, Syria etc. are not war zones, they may be slightly risky, but no where near going to Iraq in the current climate.
Whilst I haven't been to Basra, I do know quite a few C130 jockeys who are definately not happy when they go out there.
Have faith in the companies procedures!
Bean counters know a lot about missile defence do they? Ask to have a look at most company emergency plans and see how many of the people mentioned are still with the company or in some cases even still alive. This is not a joke unfortunately. 
Iran, Syria etc. are not war zones, they may be slightly risky, but no where near going to Iraq in the current climate.
Whilst I haven't been to Basra, I do know quite a few C130 jockeys who are definately not happy when they go out there.
Have faith in the companies procedures!
Bean counters know a lot about missile defence do they? Ask to have a look at most company emergency plans and see how many of the people mentioned are still with the company or in some cases even still alive. This is not a joke unfortunately.
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"Have a little faith in your company security!!!! believe me they would not send you to a place where they are not 110 % happy with the operation, do you really think they will send their million pounds aircraft and its crew and more imprtantly its REPUTATION on the line..."
I bet the DHL guys had faith in their company.........................
I bet the DHL guys had faith in their company.........................
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L8MED, good to read that security of your company is such that it deserves your faith.
Me, I've been shot at, held hostage in the crew bus, seen Mumbay burn from the hotel's rooftop, had drunk & heavily armed soldiers board the AC and play at firing at us, seen fireworks explode all around the AC while we made a mad dash to get out of Jemen, got caught up in a spot of "let's just overthrow the president & kill all his guards", just to name a few of the highlights.
And if I made a true list, it'd be much longer!
All to destinations that had already been on the news but that the company security department had vouched for as absolutely no problem......
L8MED I guess it all depends on the quality of the company security department eh?
Me, I've been shot at, held hostage in the crew bus, seen Mumbay burn from the hotel's rooftop, had drunk & heavily armed soldiers board the AC and play at firing at us, seen fireworks explode all around the AC while we made a mad dash to get out of Jemen, got caught up in a spot of "let's just overthrow the president & kill all his guards", just to name a few of the highlights.
And if I made a true list, it'd be much longer!
All to destinations that had already been on the news but that the company security department had vouched for as absolutely no problem......
L8MED I guess it all depends on the quality of the company security department eh?
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Million pound aircraft!
Put it this way, the airline sweety works for do not have million pound aircraft!!?. All this company cares about is making money
They do not give a dam about crew,
I should know I used to work for them. If I still did I would certainly refuse to do these flights at the mo
They do not give a dam about crew,
I should know I used to work for them. If I still did I would certainly refuse to do these flights at the mo
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Poor Communication
I always think that the pity of these situations is that in many cases, the concerns of operating crew could be reduced if the airlines involved were to make even the most basic attempt at managing the issue. In my experience, you get rostered for a flight to a "dodgy" destination, and there is either no communication at all, or a photocopy self brief sheet which says, in essence, "Don't worry, trust us" - most Crew have spent their professional working lives being taught by their employer why they should trust them as far as they can throw them.
I remember turning up for a hot-spot flight and meeting 2 of my crew who were on the point of refusing to operate: TV and radio news reports the night before and on the drive-in were relaying terrible stories & images. Those Cabin Crew with partners and children had been asked difficult to answer questions and inevitably, this had all combined to erode confidence. Eventually, they decided to operate, after some reassurance from the Flight Crew: My point is that this was all entirely avoidable. Intelligent and pro-active management would have identified and managed the problem in advance, but then how often do you see the words "pro-active", "intelligent" and "management" used in the same sentence? (except by managers themselves)
My view now? Those who take the decisions as to where it is safe to fly are not those whose remains will be spread over some third-world hell-hole slum suburb when it all goes wrong: I take all the advice available, read up and , only then if I am satisfied will I operate: If not, then I go sick. I don't feel guily about this, as in my view, if the airline had correctly communicated and managed the issue in the first place, the information available to me would have meant that my decision would have been to operate.
I remember turning up for a hot-spot flight and meeting 2 of my crew who were on the point of refusing to operate: TV and radio news reports the night before and on the drive-in were relaying terrible stories & images. Those Cabin Crew with partners and children had been asked difficult to answer questions and inevitably, this had all combined to erode confidence. Eventually, they decided to operate, after some reassurance from the Flight Crew: My point is that this was all entirely avoidable. Intelligent and pro-active management would have identified and managed the problem in advance, but then how often do you see the words "pro-active", "intelligent" and "management" used in the same sentence? (except by managers themselves)
My view now? Those who take the decisions as to where it is safe to fly are not those whose remains will be spread over some third-world hell-hole slum suburb when it all goes wrong: I take all the advice available, read up and , only then if I am satisfied will I operate: If not, then I go sick. I don't feel guily about this, as in my view, if the airline had correctly communicated and managed the issue in the first place, the information available to me would have meant that my decision would have been to operate.