BA Crews caught stealing booze (merged)
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If I come through customs with a bottle of gin, how do they know whether: I paid for it, was given it, or stole it.
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To help keep tabs on all of this at Astraeus, I've written and deployed a computer system which our cabin crew use to enter post flight sales information, where it basically records their in-flight opening stock, closing stock, and money to be banked.
The system then compares the sales value of the stock with the money that they are banking. If there’s a shortfall it then asks the crew to enter the reason why this might be, e.g. miscounts, bonded store errors, etc,..... but more usually reported as ‘Unknown ?’.
Once the entry process is complete, each cabin crew member gets a printed report of what was input into the system, and this includes the ( estimated ) amount of commission that they will get paid ( subject to investigation of shortfalls and / or bonded store reconciliation), plus any comments in respect shortfalls in the money banked.
The hope is that the fact that each cabin crew member is able to see if there are any shortfalls, and the amount thereof, plus that this all happens immediately post-flight, in the presence of their peers, helps to keep everybody honest – and it certainly helps management to keep tabs on where, when, and with whom, the most likely shortfalls will occur.
Proof that it works might be seen in that when the above system was recently introduced at another of our bases, the previous shortfalls have dramatically reduced.
Incidentally, and to hopefully help make the point, I’ve just queried the database which underpins this InFlightSales system and it shows that, since our first commercial flight ( just 18 months ago ), the average shortfall in money banked ( on 2979 flights ) was £23.12.
Now that doesn’t sound much does it ?...... but do the math and you’ll see that this totals to £68,680, or roughly £45787 per year and / or £3816 per month ( albeit that summer months, and lead-up to Christmas seem to exhibit the bulk of any shortfalls – go figure )..... and we’re just a little charter airline with only five B737’s – so quite how much the big’uns must be loosing must be quite eye watering me thinks.
That said, on flights with free-bars, quite how one keeps tabs on people helping themselves is a lot more difficult – but it is possible.
The system then compares the sales value of the stock with the money that they are banking. If there’s a shortfall it then asks the crew to enter the reason why this might be, e.g. miscounts, bonded store errors, etc,..... but more usually reported as ‘Unknown ?’.
Once the entry process is complete, each cabin crew member gets a printed report of what was input into the system, and this includes the ( estimated ) amount of commission that they will get paid ( subject to investigation of shortfalls and / or bonded store reconciliation), plus any comments in respect shortfalls in the money banked.
The hope is that the fact that each cabin crew member is able to see if there are any shortfalls, and the amount thereof, plus that this all happens immediately post-flight, in the presence of their peers, helps to keep everybody honest – and it certainly helps management to keep tabs on where, when, and with whom, the most likely shortfalls will occur.
Proof that it works might be seen in that when the above system was recently introduced at another of our bases, the previous shortfalls have dramatically reduced.
Incidentally, and to hopefully help make the point, I’ve just queried the database which underpins this InFlightSales system and it shows that, since our first commercial flight ( just 18 months ago ), the average shortfall in money banked ( on 2979 flights ) was £23.12.
Now that doesn’t sound much does it ?...... but do the math and you’ll see that this totals to £68,680, or roughly £45787 per year and / or £3816 per month ( albeit that summer months, and lead-up to Christmas seem to exhibit the bulk of any shortfalls – go figure )..... and we’re just a little charter airline with only five B737’s – so quite how much the big’uns must be loosing must be quite eye watering me thinks.
That said, on flights with free-bars, quite how one keeps tabs on people helping themselves is a lot more difficult – but it is possible.
Many years ago when Jersey was a crew base for the (original) BEA a posse of security inspectors were sent to the island to check on the contents of Cabin Crew houses. As they travelled to the island by their own airline it was not as surprising as it was meant to be and the result was that a farmer found a large pile of BEA silver ware and other goods etc. in a field. However one young lady was not so quick and when they arrived at her door they found a quantity of sheets labeled "Excelsior Hotel". Upon being challenged about her possesion of these articles she maintained she had merely "borrowed" these as on every nightstop in LHR she swapped them for another pair! Didn't do her any good though, still got the sack!
hands up anyone who has NEVER EVER taken a pen, made a phone call, a photocopy or whatever at the expense of their company??
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Max allowance vs. steeling from company
If you take away hundreds of bottles, packs of airline's material, there is nothing to protest if they get fined and loose their job. Here in Switzerland, with its famous airline bearing the same name, we are fired without notice if you take one little thing with you! No joke. Customs have the nice habit to check it once in a while, and they work close with the airline. I have no problem with checking, I just think that customs do mix two different things: The max. allowable amount and steeling from the company. If you have 3 bottles of wine with you (which is the max allowance to import), customs can never say something, because it is legal. You could have bought it abroad. Even a sandwich is not allowed to import, chocolate etc. Some collegues start to bite from every little thing, so the package is open, so it is not "importing" anymore, but rather finishing your crew meal
Dani
Dani
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When I ran the lorries for an LGW caterer, I caught a bunch of loaders in the back of a truck up on stand against a DC10 helping themselves to the bar. Eight sackings on the spot, customs & Coppers involved & a saving to the business of 30K per annum. However, massive reostering headache the next day.
Theft is theft - in this case, the customer threatened to boot us off the contract if we didn't sort it - that would have been 30 odd jobs in the can.
My ex missus used to do crew purchases - quarter gone bottles of booze etc. very nice too.
Theft is theft - in this case, the customer threatened to boot us off the contract if we didn't sort it - that would have been 30 odd jobs in the can.
My ex missus used to do crew purchases - quarter gone bottles of booze etc. very nice too.
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In AF, until a year ago we used to have Customs inside the building on a permanent basis, at the crew entrance arriving from a flight. We had to present a crew list with a list of the goods purchased abroad, and be in possession of the receipts for any of it. It was routine to be searched (even though not on all flights): all crew used to stay in a circle aroud the Officer's desk, waiting to hear for who the axe was going to fall. Obviously those who declared purchases for more than the allowance were to pay the taxes. But trying to cheat was an option only for morons! (Except for asking the shop owner to issue a receipt for a lesser amount...and of course Customs in France are convinced that pashminas in India cost 15 Euro )
Some years ago a Captain, tired to spend hours waiting in line etc, sued the Customs on the basis that they had no right of wanting a crew purchase list, because we were not importing with the purpose of commerce but just for personal use. They won, but the Customs revenge was horrible: now, whenever you have anything to declare, you must go through airport Customs, and not directly to AF with a comfortable crew bus. They promised random searches and immediate revocation of the privilege of not going through the airport Customs (30 min at least) if too many people (on their opinion) were caught. Now I've heard they wait sometimes even outside the crew exit to inspect luggage and cars (although I have never seen them).
Anyway, this indeed is a good deterrent not to steal company goods, because they are considered duty free. But it is not the only one, the main being a strong company culture and common blame for crew members taking anything from the aircraft. Surely no one would do it in front of someone else.
) Some years ago a Captain, tired to spend hours waiting in line etc, sued the Customs on the basis that they had no right of wanting a crew purchase list, because we were not importing with the purpose of commerce but just for personal use. They won, but the Customs revenge was horrible: now, whenever you have anything to declare, you must go through airport Customs, and not directly to AF with a comfortable crew bus. They promised random searches and immediate revocation of the privilege of not going through the airport Customs (30 min at least) if too many people (on their opinion) were caught. Now I've heard they wait sometimes even outside the crew exit to inspect luggage and cars (although I have never seen them).
Anyway, this indeed is a good deterrent not to steal company goods, because they are considered duty free. But it is not the only one, the main being a strong company culture and common blame for crew members taking anything from the aircraft. Surely no one would do it in front of someone else.
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"A group of seven cabin crew staff were stopped at Manchester Airport and were searched by customs officers who seized hundreds of drinks - thought to be brandy, whisky and gin worth £300 - as well as bags of peanuts."
I have never really thought about it, but anyone know how many minatures there are on an international 747 or 777 or other large aircraft?
I have never really thought about it, but anyone know how many minatures there are on an international 747 or 777 or other large aircraft?
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Wasn't this thread in Jet Blast a few months ago with someone insisting the hotels in New York were so expensive that it was almost his duty to load up with towels?
I may have done some $5 an hour temp work once (a long time ago and a lot of fun too) and I may have made a few copies of something. They may have made a stack about a quarter inch high. When it was time to leave, the guard asked me to open my backpack. He may have put his hand on the photocopies that may or may not have existed and my heart possibly sank. I may have thought how stupid it would be to get in trouble for this hypothetical act and how were that to be the case, it wouldn't be worth it. He may have waggled the theoretical roll of papers to the left, then to the right, then backwards and forwards, as if he were trying to taunt me. Then he quite possibly said (though my memory is definately falliable) "That's ok you can go. We're just looking for people nicking tools.".
I may have learned a little lesson there (if indeed any of the above actually took place, though any similarity between the characters depicted therein and any living (or deceased) person is accidental and all of the above is protected work product and no part either separate or in toto can be deemed to breach or waive client priviledge, nor does any of the above constitute any record of any factual event and can in no way be considered an admission of guilt).
I may have done some $5 an hour temp work once (a long time ago and a lot of fun too) and I may have made a few copies of something. They may have made a stack about a quarter inch high. When it was time to leave, the guard asked me to open my backpack. He may have put his hand on the photocopies that may or may not have existed and my heart possibly sank. I may have thought how stupid it would be to get in trouble for this hypothetical act and how were that to be the case, it wouldn't be worth it. He may have waggled the theoretical roll of papers to the left, then to the right, then backwards and forwards, as if he were trying to taunt me. Then he quite possibly said (though my memory is definately falliable) "That's ok you can go. We're just looking for people nicking tools.".
I may have learned a little lesson there (if indeed any of the above actually took place, though any similarity between the characters depicted therein and any living (or deceased) person is accidental and all of the above is protected work product and no part either separate or in toto can be deemed to breach or waive client priviledge, nor does any of the above constitute any record of any factual event and can in no way be considered an admission of guilt).
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Guys,
I believe that it's possible to purchase 'minatures' at the end of the flight - all above board, etc. Therefore, one must be careful when allegations are made about Crew members.
With regard to taking shampoo, soap, etc from the hotel; well they are complimentary and I would recommend that everyone should avail of these gifts. Very useful indeed!!
But, stealing £300 worth of booze from the company, well , that's a real p**s take and they deserve whatever punishment they get.
I believe that it's possible to purchase 'minatures' at the end of the flight - all above board, etc. Therefore, one must be careful when allegations are made about Crew members.
With regard to taking shampoo, soap, etc from the hotel; well they are complimentary and I would recommend that everyone should avail of these gifts. Very useful indeed!!
But, stealing £300 worth of booze from the company, well , that's a real p**s take and they deserve whatever punishment they get.
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A criminal record ?
How might a criminal record affect the renewal of an airside pass, or a further application with another airline?
think very carefully before putting oneself on offer.
You will regret it for a some time.
think very carefully before putting oneself on offer.You will regret it for a some time.
1.6vs - that comment is ridiculous.
I have sat in First Class on BA Dubai-Heathrow and watched the CSD - who was a trainer - progressively fill up a holdall with bottles of champagne, snacks, the First Class tea box, chocolate boxes and anything else he could lay his hands on - to the point where he could hardly lift the holdall when we landed at LHR.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that a senior CSD at British Airways was on such a low salary that he had to steal? I don't think so. Yet the majority of other cabin crew (who I suspect earn significantly less than this light-fingered individual) are honest and worthy folks who would not dream of stealing, whether from their colleagues, their passengers or their employer.
I have sat in First Class on BA Dubai-Heathrow and watched the CSD - who was a trainer - progressively fill up a holdall with bottles of champagne, snacks, the First Class tea box, chocolate boxes and anything else he could lay his hands on - to the point where he could hardly lift the holdall when we landed at LHR.
Are you seriously trying to tell me that a senior CSD at British Airways was on such a low salary that he had to steal? I don't think so. Yet the majority of other cabin crew (who I suspect earn significantly less than this light-fingered individual) are honest and worthy folks who would not dream of stealing, whether from their colleagues, their passengers or their employer.
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Theft from pilferage and fraud cost BA £12 million a year in 2001. There is no sign that this is reducing and those of you who work for other airlines can easily fsctor this figure to realise the impact it is having on your airline.
Anne
Anne
If a pilot had been caught he would have been nailed to the wall.Cabin crew no worries.The writing of false receipts still goes on in long haul BA as does offloading larger booze,hence pilots dont get invited to the room party.
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Don't know if this will add anything useful, but here goes.
1. On a domestic EU flight, there is dispensation to airlines to sell or offer liquor for consumption on board but not to sell or offer liquor for removal from the aircraft. This is as a result of the abolition of Duty Free within the EU. Therefore, on a domestic EU sector, removing even one miniature from the aircraft, because of the exemption from Duty, is an offence as far as HM Customs are concerned., paid for or not.
2. In disciplinary matters involving the avoidance of duty by aircrew, the airline may have no choice but to take a hard line with the crew, merely to protect themselves from sanctions by HMC. In other words, if HMC are involved, you're sunk!
3. In any situation where goods are removed from a flight, when the crew are required to pay for the missing money or stock from their salary, or where the removal of goods denies the crew commission on the sale (i.e. the sale is not shown on the paperwork) then this would be theft, not only from the airline, but also from the other crew on the flight.
Moral - Don't remove anything from the aircraft, not even a gash bag. Eventually you will get caught, and when you do, it's napalm for breakfast.
P.S. CrashDive - when your program calculates the bar short, is it using the prices that you sell the goods at on board, or the prices that you buy the goods in at? The difference is likely to be substantial. The actual loss to the company will be significantly less: I'm not seeking to justify or apologise for money/stock shorts in any way, just pointing out that a variance may exist. Also (apologies for cynicism) if the program shows that the bar is over/up by £200, can you be certain that you will get all of that amount banked? Just a thought. PM me if necessary.
1. On a domestic EU flight, there is dispensation to airlines to sell or offer liquor for consumption on board but not to sell or offer liquor for removal from the aircraft. This is as a result of the abolition of Duty Free within the EU. Therefore, on a domestic EU sector, removing even one miniature from the aircraft, because of the exemption from Duty, is an offence as far as HM Customs are concerned., paid for or not.
2. In disciplinary matters involving the avoidance of duty by aircrew, the airline may have no choice but to take a hard line with the crew, merely to protect themselves from sanctions by HMC. In other words, if HMC are involved, you're sunk!
3. In any situation where goods are removed from a flight, when the crew are required to pay for the missing money or stock from their salary, or where the removal of goods denies the crew commission on the sale (i.e. the sale is not shown on the paperwork) then this would be theft, not only from the airline, but also from the other crew on the flight.
Moral - Don't remove anything from the aircraft, not even a gash bag. Eventually you will get caught, and when you do, it's napalm for breakfast.
P.S. CrashDive - when your program calculates the bar short, is it using the prices that you sell the goods at on board, or the prices that you buy the goods in at? The difference is likely to be substantial. The actual loss to the company will be significantly less: I'm not seeking to justify or apologise for money/stock shorts in any way, just pointing out that a variance may exist. Also (apologies for cynicism) if the program shows that the bar is over/up by £200, can you be certain that you will get all of that amount banked? Just a thought. PM me if necessary.
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Onan
I think I'm the person you mentioned. I actually said it's OK to take Shampoo, Soap, body cleanser, skin cream etc.basically anything found in the bathroom apart from the towels, sink, toilet and shower...That's all and nothing more. After all, Hotel Guests pay for the above items.
Having said that, I don't condone theft in any way, shape or form. Especially when I've paid $189:00 for the priviledge of a bed. I truly belive that for such a price, certain items such as I mentioned above are naturally included in the cost of a room. Am I wrong?
Newark
Having said that, I don't condone theft in any way, shape or form. Especially when I've paid $189:00 for the priviledge of a bed. I truly belive that for such a price, certain items such as I mentioned above are naturally included in the cost of a room. Am I wrong?
Newark
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Everybody has assumed that its mainline B.A were talking about
but if its MAN crew then its mickey mouse B.A or Citiexpress as its known. Not an excuse for there actions but in theory not a B.A story as citiexpress are only B.A when it suits them or the bods at waterworld.
but if its MAN crew then its mickey mouse B.A or Citiexpress as its known. Not an excuse for there actions but in theory not a B.A story as citiexpress are only B.A when it suits them or the bods at waterworld.
