Best of the old iron
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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A market tends to imply active buying and selling by arms length participants. I am not sure how this unit can be seen as priced below the market. This unit has been for sale for going on 1000 days that kind of time indicates to me quite clearly that buyers think the value is not $4m.
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1257 sold just before Christmas at or around 6m and had fresh engine O/Hs. Now if you if take off the full cost of those O/Hs then you are at 4m. Market was quite active the last three months of 2013. So, there is activity it just appears that you are trying to convince this audience on here that the SP market does not exist, when it clearly does.
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If a thousand days on the market doesn't convince you this unit is priced above what buyers think it is worth nothing else I can say will either. Lets just agree to disagree. How much hassle is it going to be for them if these engines calendar out on the ground? How complicated/expensive is it to get a ferry for service permit?
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That theory of "deduct the cost of needed repairs" is a minefield. I've almost never-ever come out of a major repair within 20% of the shop estimate. Usually twice to three times is par for the course.
Better to put money in escrow pending successful completion of the work being done to satisfaction.
FR
Better to put money in escrow pending successful completion of the work being done to satisfaction.
FR
Join Date: Feb 2009
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I have no problem deducting the cost of Tay motors as these are pretty much known quantities by the big shops. However, I would strongly suggest to have an airplane delivered with the big airframe maintenance done as that can be a minefield - think cracked spars, extensive corrosion, etc. No matter how you cut it, there are some great values available in the GIV and GIV/SP market.
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FrankR, I agree with your logic on the risk but my conclusion is different. I find a quick cash transaction at a lower price is generally more palatable to a publicly traded owner that wants an asset off the books than a lengthy escrow process that contains possible unknown costs for them. I have begun insulting various G-IV(SP) sellers, we shall see where it leads.
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Buyer beware on cash and carry deals. If you don't already have somebody, I highly suggest getting a professional familiar with Gulfstreams to go through the records and do a basic visual inpsection, especially if you expect to operate under Part 135.
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Go Gulfstream,
I have recently purchased a IV with all the right ASCs, <$6M on the ramp after a serious going over by MidCoast, you don't need the IVSP over the distances you are suggesting and if you do need to go tanks full, there are a number of fairly light ones that will do the trick, but that is it not the point.
I have a system I have developed that sorts the men from the boys as far as the "right aircraft" is concerned.
if you want to right down the other end of the spectrum there are some nice Challenger 600 around forget MSP I know where you can get a 0 time spare engines for less than <$200k leave it in its box and if something goes bump swap it out and then go buy another. Still operating the one I bought in 2007 for $6.2M apart from routine, haven't put a spanner on it, could get sister ship now for easy less than $2M. Does the job you want and the cabin, is well, the industry biggest. They don't call them Winnebago's for nothing.
I have recently purchased a IV with all the right ASCs, <$6M on the ramp after a serious going over by MidCoast, you don't need the IVSP over the distances you are suggesting and if you do need to go tanks full, there are a number of fairly light ones that will do the trick, but that is it not the point.
I have a system I have developed that sorts the men from the boys as far as the "right aircraft" is concerned.
if you want to right down the other end of the spectrum there are some nice Challenger 600 around forget MSP I know where you can get a 0 time spare engines for less than <$200k leave it in its box and if something goes bump swap it out and then go buy another. Still operating the one I bought in 2007 for $6.2M apart from routine, haven't put a spanner on it, could get sister ship now for easy less than $2M. Does the job you want and the cabin, is well, the industry biggest. They don't call them Winnebago's for nothing.
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In the process of making, lets call them buyer beneficial, offers on the available G-IVs I have been told to F Off many times as expected but have a couple of responses that indicate interest and one immediate counter substantially below ask. I did have one party tell me the G-IV I was offering on would never sell for my offer but he knew an entity with a Hawker 4000 that they badly want sold. Unit is low time like new condition but no block upgrade so I assume currently grounded. Seller refuses to spend one nickel on the airplane due the major screwing they have already endured. Sounds like an offer around three would buy it for an immediate cash sale. I am hearing the block upgrade represented 700k-1M worth of work depending upon serial number in question. What is the real story on the capabilities of an updated 4000?
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Hawker4000 = Unknown future support, bastard frame, few knowledgeable maintenance shops = garbage airplane. I wouldn't suggest to any of my clients to go down that road.
