VLJs again
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suitcaseman, your points are undebateable.
Of course, if millions build something that millions others buy it must be great. Like cigarettes, TV-dinners, VHS video, the Hummer H1, rubber dog ****, rubiks cube. Very useful objects employing millions of people. Truly great stuff.
Before you get all worked up - I'm kidding obviously, but realize that good solid reasoning doesn't necessarily play a part in decision making. If that were the case we would live in a very dull world. Eco friendly perhaps but nevertheless dull.
This is where sales people really prove their worth, selling you something you don't need, want or understand by tickling your senses. I just watched a clip where a reporter thought 93dB in the Cessna 182 was quiet. He must be deaf.
Of course, if millions build something that millions others buy it must be great. Like cigarettes, TV-dinners, VHS video, the Hummer H1, rubber dog ****, rubiks cube. Very useful objects employing millions of people. Truly great stuff.
Before you get all worked up - I'm kidding obviously, but realize that good solid reasoning doesn't necessarily play a part in decision making. If that were the case we would live in a very dull world. Eco friendly perhaps but nevertheless dull.
This is where sales people really prove their worth, selling you something you don't need, want or understand by tickling your senses. I just watched a clip where a reporter thought 93dB in the Cessna 182 was quiet. He must be deaf.
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I suppose that counts for the usefulness of VLJs as well.
If we're talking VLJs then we should be discussing single jets too. I understand the sales pitch in terms of the "jet" sensation, but again, the usefulness is a great big ? in my mind. For one, up here in the north, anything with fans (or one fan) requires two pilots. How would a Piper, Cirrus or Diamond Jet make any sense if you need to carry dead weight around? And, with speeds on par with a TBM 850 which in contrast can be flown SP it seems even more useless.
With the restrictions on SE-IFR they won't be any good for commercial work either.
Beats me.
If we're talking VLJs then we should be discussing single jets too. I understand the sales pitch in terms of the "jet" sensation, but again, the usefulness is a great big ? in my mind. For one, up here in the north, anything with fans (or one fan) requires two pilots. How would a Piper, Cirrus or Diamond Jet make any sense if you need to carry dead weight around? And, with speeds on par with a TBM 850 which in contrast can be flown SP it seems even more useless.
With the restrictions on SE-IFR they won't be any good for commercial work either.
Beats me.
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Time marches on...
Time has moved on since this thread was initially posted - So where does the VLJ market stand now?
Are CJ (or similar) operators competing equally on price against the likes of the Phenom and Mustang operators? Where are the operating costs of VLJs sitting now?
Are CJ (or similar) operators competing equally on price against the likes of the Phenom and Mustang operators? Where are the operating costs of VLJs sitting now?
Three Mustangs were parked at Ocean Sky for the Man U v Chelsea match at Old Trafford last Saturday - Dutch, Spanish & Czech examples, so there is clearly a market for them
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Having seen a Phenom 100 last week; if I was Blink i'd be worried. It's a much nicer aircraft than the Mustang (Bigger, more spacious, feels better built and less like a toy).
Price wise the mustang is working out less than the CJ's from what i've seen. But i've seen some seriously ridiculous pricing on them (at least one £1000/hr deal being banded around), so whether it's sustainable or not who knows.
Price wise the mustang is working out less than the CJ's from what i've seen. But i've seen some seriously ridiculous pricing on them (at least one £1000/hr deal being banded around), so whether it's sustainable or not who knows.
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But i've seen some seriously ridiculous pricing on them (at least one £1000/hr deal being banded around)
Fully agree Phenom v Mustang. Phenom wins hands down: I think the performance is the same? The powerplant is the same? The avionics is the same? Yet the total finish of the Phenom seems to be better: It has a discreet toilet with what appears to be a full fold down door???
Sustainability remains to be seen... surely?
I open this to debate as the corporate season is just about to increase in what appears to be a very challenging market...
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Performance, powerplant and avionics
The Phenom 100 is faster with better range.
The engines are the same series but the Phenom 100 has a more powerful version and therefore a higher fuel burn.
The Phenom 100 has a "customer" version of the Mustangs Garmin 1000 that has synoptic pages.
The Phenom 100 has contaminated runway performance figures.
And having paxed in both - the Phenom 100 has bigger cabin windows.
The Phenom 100 is a very nice little aircraft but the Phenom 300 is going to be fantastic.
The engines are the same series but the Phenom 100 has a more powerful version and therefore a higher fuel burn.
The Phenom 100 has a "customer" version of the Mustangs Garmin 1000 that has synoptic pages.
The Phenom 100 has contaminated runway performance figures.
And having paxed in both - the Phenom 100 has bigger cabin windows.
The Phenom 100 is a very nice little aircraft but the Phenom 300 is going to be fantastic.
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Price wise the mustang is working out less than the CJ's from what i've seen. But i've seen some seriously ridiculous pricing on them (at least one £1000/hr deal being banded around), so whether it's sustainable or not who knows.
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Blink are not seriously worried about the Phenom 100, I've been on one and for sure it's a nicer higher quality aircraft than the Mustang but then so it should be for almost another million dollars more but with little in the way of performance enhancements over the Mustang. The Phenom 300 now thats an altogether different kettle of fish.
The matter of the toilet is a non starter, Blink has been operating for almost two years now and I personally can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times people have made use of it, having said that when customers have used it there has been no issue whatsoever, just a quick suggestion to use the loo prior to boarding the aircraft is all that is required.
I can only assume that other companies out there are flying predominantly customers with severe bladder control issues. I have a perfectly normal bladder and have never had an occasion to make use of the toilet, just avoid drinking tea and coke, very simple really.
The Avanti is a lovely aircraft and I believe the founders of Blink may have briefly looked the aircraft, but just compare it's purchase price with that of a Mustang and you will see you can purchase almost three Mustangs for the price of one Avanti.
The matter of the toilet is a non starter, Blink has been operating for almost two years now and I personally can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times people have made use of it, having said that when customers have used it there has been no issue whatsoever, just a quick suggestion to use the loo prior to boarding the aircraft is all that is required.
I can only assume that other companies out there are flying predominantly customers with severe bladder control issues. I have a perfectly normal bladder and have never had an occasion to make use of the toilet, just avoid drinking tea and coke, very simple really.
The Avanti is a lovely aircraft and I believe the founders of Blink may have briefly looked the aircraft, but just compare it's purchase price with that of a Mustang and you will see you can purchase almost three Mustangs for the price of one Avanti.
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Highflight,
Have you considered how many people never get into a Mustang because of the toilet? Ours are hardly ever used, but on a 2 hour flight, it's very reassuring to know it's there. On a 1 hour flight it's less important which is where the 510's have their Niche?
The Mustangs are just too easy to compete against, I have a photo of the toilet and I use Blinks promo video's (YouTube - flyblink's Channel) which make it look even smaller than it is.
PB
Have you considered how many people never get into a Mustang because of the toilet? Ours are hardly ever used, but on a 2 hour flight, it's very reassuring to know it's there. On a 1 hour flight it's less important which is where the 510's have their Niche?
The Mustangs are just too easy to compete against, I have a photo of the toilet and I use Blinks promo video's (YouTube - flyblink's Channel) which make it look even smaller than it is.
PB
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From what I hear, the initial client reaction to the kind of toilet on board the C510 is one of either alarm or at best bewilderment...the reassurance of something a little more "substantial" is enough to encourage switching in a level priced market.
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I find VLJs to be an interesting solution to a an interesting demographic of customers...peeps flying there own $1.5 mil. dollar planes..
Be happy, it means more jobs for pilots...there are only a handfull of biz owners that actualy fly thier own jets out there, and most have pilots on staff to fly with them anyway.
Be happy, it means more jobs for pilots...there are only a handfull of biz owners that actualy fly thier own jets out there, and most have pilots on staff to fly with them anyway.
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I find VLJs to be an interesting solution to a an interesting demographic of customers...peeps flying there own $1.5 mil. dollar planes..
