Single Engine Air Tanker......info
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 40
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Single Engine Air Tanker......info
Good afternoon everybody or if your a freight dog, good morning..
I have been looking into this subject (any form of aerial firefighting, waterbombing, air tankers, whatever) for a long time now with seemingly little to show.
There havent been many posts or threads ive found on here dealing with this.. Im looking for any info whatsoever into specifically (SEAT), training or a way into that well guarded community.
Much appreciated!!
I have been looking into this subject (any form of aerial firefighting, waterbombing, air tankers, whatever) for a long time now with seemingly little to show.
There havent been many posts or threads ive found on here dealing with this.. Im looking for any info whatsoever into specifically (SEAT), training or a way into that well guarded community.
Much appreciated!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 40
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks rippiggy for the info.
I was however looking for something more along the lines of names of companies that have contracts with the forest service or the government. Or if someone is in the business and knows anything about any airtanker bases i could get in touch with for info about hiring mins or any way to build up experience for work in that particular field
I was however looking for something more along the lines of names of companies that have contracts with the forest service or the government. Or if someone is in the business and knows anything about any airtanker bases i could get in touch with for info about hiring mins or any way to build up experience for work in that particular field
Marshall,
I flew SEATS for seven years, in PZL M-18T's using both Pratt and Garrett motors, AT-502's, and AT-802's. I also flew heavy tankers, did air attack, ground fire, point to point, and other USFS duties.
By and large most of the SEAT work today is in an 802's, and it's very difficult to get anyone to talk to you, let alone hire you unless you've got 802 experience. It's difficult to get hired into a SEAT unless you've got at least a thousand hours of ag, either.
Some of the larger operators include New Frontier Aviation, Western Pilot Services, Queen Bee, M&M Air Service, Aero Tech, Evergreen, and Aerial Timber Applicators. Downtowns Aero in New Jersey operates turbine AgCats.
Most hiring for SEAT operations is done around the end of the year, with some final adjustments being done in the early months of the year. Fire season kicks off in some places as early as February, but generally from June through September is the busiest time.
Most all SEAT flying is contracted to the Bureau of Land Management, though some state and a few federal contracts to other agencies are out there (BIA, etc). Increasingly, SEATS are dropping on USFS fires as well.
There's no point contacting tanker bases, as they don't have anything to do with contracting, and can't provide you any useful information. Individual tanker companies can, but usually won't provide you any information.
Minimum carding requirement is 1,500 hours total, though most pilots flying SEATs start in the 5,000 to 10,000 hour range or greater, and have substantial conventional gear (tailwheel) and ag experience.
I flew SEATS for seven years, in PZL M-18T's using both Pratt and Garrett motors, AT-502's, and AT-802's. I also flew heavy tankers, did air attack, ground fire, point to point, and other USFS duties.
By and large most of the SEAT work today is in an 802's, and it's very difficult to get anyone to talk to you, let alone hire you unless you've got 802 experience. It's difficult to get hired into a SEAT unless you've got at least a thousand hours of ag, either.
Some of the larger operators include New Frontier Aviation, Western Pilot Services, Queen Bee, M&M Air Service, Aero Tech, Evergreen, and Aerial Timber Applicators. Downtowns Aero in New Jersey operates turbine AgCats.
Most hiring for SEAT operations is done around the end of the year, with some final adjustments being done in the early months of the year. Fire season kicks off in some places as early as February, but generally from June through September is the busiest time.
Most all SEAT flying is contracted to the Bureau of Land Management, though some state and a few federal contracts to other agencies are out there (BIA, etc). Increasingly, SEATS are dropping on USFS fires as well.
There's no point contacting tanker bases, as they don't have anything to do with contracting, and can't provide you any useful information. Individual tanker companies can, but usually won't provide you any information.
Minimum carding requirement is 1,500 hours total, though most pilots flying SEATs start in the 5,000 to 10,000 hour range or greater, and have substantial conventional gear (tailwheel) and ag experience.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 40
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sns3guppy, thanks for the info its literally better than I could have hoped for and answered all my questions... Ive got about 1200 hrs low level pipeline time, 250 turbine and 1800 tt... Relatively low compared to most but I think I might try the Crop dusting road and hopefully, eventually, try and work my way into SEAT flying if its still around by then, lol.. Hopefully this will be some good info for some of the other guys out there to stumble on trying to look into the same thing!
Thanks again
Thanks again
Marshallc,
Ag flying would be a good starting point if you want to pursue fire work. Ag work isn't easy to get into either, however. Many operators don't want to insure a pilot who has less than 1,000 hours of ag time. Even then, operators are loathe to allow you to do herbicide work without previous substantial herbicide experience, etc. While today everyone has GPS experience, most operators want specific SatLoc experience flying with agnav or other ag aviation GPS guidance systems.
Further complicating the matter is the trend over the past couple of decades toward larger turbine ag aircraft...which means less ag airplanes and less jobs out there, and fewer entry level aircraft available for someone to start. Increased use of ground rigs and chemigation have reduced the demand for ag aviation, and economically the present climate has put a real crunch on the business as well.
Ag aviation is something you really want to think about carefully. It's mostly seasonal, very unpredictable, and leaves you looking for work twice every year (or more). Few employers outside ag aviation want to hire you for part of the year, meaning you're often left to find other work...anything you can find. When each season rolls around, you're also stuck looking for work, unless you're fortunate to obtain a long term seat. Ag hours are long, and historically the mishap rate can be high. Many years ago the national aerial applicator association published statistics saying the average ag pilot's lifespan was seven years once starting work...a potentially sobering number if it's new to you.
With the unpredictability of the job, you may fly a lot or a little...and may therefore make a good income, or very little...and you have no way to predict that. Some pilots are able to secure winter fertalization or seeding work doing tree farms or other types of flying, but this involves a lot more work, much longer days, and lower pay.
Many ag pilots, whether doing forestry, fire, or spray work, have experienced wire strikes, forced landings, engine failures, etc. It's an environment with ample hazards, plenty of chance to create risk, and it's hard on aircraft and pilots. If you happen to be one of those pilots with a wire strike or crash on your record as a result of doing ag work, think how this may affect your future in aviation. It not only has strong negative potential for a a later career in the airlines, corporate, freight, or other jobs, but it also affects your ability to remain insured as an ag pilot.
Many ag pilots are also aircraft mechanics. Formerly, it was nearly a necessity, but today it's simply preferred. Becoming a mechanic is a much larger investment of time and effort than becoming a pilot...but it's utility flying and very much part of the ag environment. Hours are long, days off few, and you may find that much of your spare change initially gets invested in tools...a lifetime investment.
Ag schools are available, but most operators don't give them much credence or respect. They also don't really prepare you for the business. Flying low is a very small part of doing ag work. A working knowledge of crops, insects, chemicals, and legal implications of spray work is an absolute must, as is the ability to inspect a field, count insects, and make recommendations for treating infestations, diseases, weeds, etc.
You might check out AgAir Update Online for some information on getting into ag work...with a few classified ads to give you an idea of the help wanted scene.
You might also try a glider operation to gain a little experience towing with and flying smaller ag airplanes such as an AgTruck or Pawnee. Some banner towing operations also use these types of aircraft.
One more thing to consider as you plan for the future is how an ag background may affect your job searches down the line. You will find that flying ag, very few opportunities to log cross country, night, or instrument flying will come up. Ag is looked down upon by many operators (airlines, corporate, etc), and it can negatively impact your future search for employment. It's hard to get work unless you're current, so paying for currency on the side is often the order if you want to stay marketable.
Again, not to discourage you here, but I do think it's important to approach the ag industry with one's eyes open.
Ag flying would be a good starting point if you want to pursue fire work. Ag work isn't easy to get into either, however. Many operators don't want to insure a pilot who has less than 1,000 hours of ag time. Even then, operators are loathe to allow you to do herbicide work without previous substantial herbicide experience, etc. While today everyone has GPS experience, most operators want specific SatLoc experience flying with agnav or other ag aviation GPS guidance systems.
Further complicating the matter is the trend over the past couple of decades toward larger turbine ag aircraft...which means less ag airplanes and less jobs out there, and fewer entry level aircraft available for someone to start. Increased use of ground rigs and chemigation have reduced the demand for ag aviation, and economically the present climate has put a real crunch on the business as well.
Ag aviation is something you really want to think about carefully. It's mostly seasonal, very unpredictable, and leaves you looking for work twice every year (or more). Few employers outside ag aviation want to hire you for part of the year, meaning you're often left to find other work...anything you can find. When each season rolls around, you're also stuck looking for work, unless you're fortunate to obtain a long term seat. Ag hours are long, and historically the mishap rate can be high. Many years ago the national aerial applicator association published statistics saying the average ag pilot's lifespan was seven years once starting work...a potentially sobering number if it's new to you.
With the unpredictability of the job, you may fly a lot or a little...and may therefore make a good income, or very little...and you have no way to predict that. Some pilots are able to secure winter fertalization or seeding work doing tree farms or other types of flying, but this involves a lot more work, much longer days, and lower pay.
Many ag pilots, whether doing forestry, fire, or spray work, have experienced wire strikes, forced landings, engine failures, etc. It's an environment with ample hazards, plenty of chance to create risk, and it's hard on aircraft and pilots. If you happen to be one of those pilots with a wire strike or crash on your record as a result of doing ag work, think how this may affect your future in aviation. It not only has strong negative potential for a a later career in the airlines, corporate, freight, or other jobs, but it also affects your ability to remain insured as an ag pilot.
Many ag pilots are also aircraft mechanics. Formerly, it was nearly a necessity, but today it's simply preferred. Becoming a mechanic is a much larger investment of time and effort than becoming a pilot...but it's utility flying and very much part of the ag environment. Hours are long, days off few, and you may find that much of your spare change initially gets invested in tools...a lifetime investment.
Ag schools are available, but most operators don't give them much credence or respect. They also don't really prepare you for the business. Flying low is a very small part of doing ag work. A working knowledge of crops, insects, chemicals, and legal implications of spray work is an absolute must, as is the ability to inspect a field, count insects, and make recommendations for treating infestations, diseases, weeds, etc.
You might check out AgAir Update Online for some information on getting into ag work...with a few classified ads to give you an idea of the help wanted scene.
You might also try a glider operation to gain a little experience towing with and flying smaller ag airplanes such as an AgTruck or Pawnee. Some banner towing operations also use these types of aircraft.
One more thing to consider as you plan for the future is how an ag background may affect your job searches down the line. You will find that flying ag, very few opportunities to log cross country, night, or instrument flying will come up. Ag is looked down upon by many operators (airlines, corporate, etc), and it can negatively impact your future search for employment. It's hard to get work unless you're current, so paying for currency on the side is often the order if you want to stay marketable.
Again, not to discourage you here, but I do think it's important to approach the ag industry with one's eyes open.
