Urgent Help please
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Urgent Help please
I have just been released from service on a Twin piston aircraft, When I had my interview a few months ago I was current I was also current when I was offered the Job but wasn't given a definite start date. I started with the company a few weeks ago, but my license is now not current my MEL or IR, I did not tell the company on my first day. Do they have the right to sack me without pay or could I go to the small claims court as I was current in my Interview. I did also fly with a check pilot
Any thoughts on this would be a great help.
Rgds
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Any thoughts on this would be a great help.
Rgds
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released from service
My advice? Quit posting here for a while, hope that the people who know who you are forget you, and that intelligent folk don't check up on your 'other posts', then come back after a while with another user name.
Oh, and if you're going to play clever with your employers, get ready for a very rough ride in your aviation career (which may, in fact, already be over).
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It's over
I concur with Kit, I think you may have blown it. Surely you knew what you were doing would result in serious problems if you got caught.
At the end of the day, you are responsible for your own currency whether you are a PPL, CPL or ATPL, you have a duty to inform your employer of your status
.
At the end of the day, you are responsible for your own currency whether you are a PPL, CPL or ATPL, you have a duty to inform your employer of your status
.
You're going to take the employer to court for what?
When each subsequent employer looks back over your employment history, how excited do you suppose they'll be when they find you've sued a former employer? How much do you think that will help your prospects down the line.
You haven't detailed much of your information, but if you intend to move beyond small light piston twins, then each job you work right now should have one goal in mind...to get experience and get a good recommendation for the next job.
I understand what you're saying; you hired on as current, and lost currency while waiting.
This spring I interviewed for a position in a turboprop. I was flying a turbojet, and current in the turbojet. However, the agency doing the interviewing used a rented piston twin to do a checkride as part of the interview. I hadn't flown a piston twin for some time. I hadn't used the types of charts they were using. I showed up a couple of days early, bought the necessary charts, rented the same type piston twin and an instructor, and got dual prepatory to the interview. I passed with flying colors.
In the meantime, if you're not current do what you can. If you're out of work, you may not be able to rent airplanes, but you can get access to computer simulators, anything at all to keep a scan going. You can study and prepare, and above all be honest and open with the employer.
I can't imagine that the employer fired you for not being current, as that's n easy thing to fix. I suspect that we're not hearing the entire story.
When each subsequent employer looks back over your employment history, how excited do you suppose they'll be when they find you've sued a former employer? How much do you think that will help your prospects down the line.
You haven't detailed much of your information, but if you intend to move beyond small light piston twins, then each job you work right now should have one goal in mind...to get experience and get a good recommendation for the next job.
I understand what you're saying; you hired on as current, and lost currency while waiting.
This spring I interviewed for a position in a turboprop. I was flying a turbojet, and current in the turbojet. However, the agency doing the interviewing used a rented piston twin to do a checkride as part of the interview. I hadn't flown a piston twin for some time. I hadn't used the types of charts they were using. I showed up a couple of days early, bought the necessary charts, rented the same type piston twin and an instructor, and got dual prepatory to the interview. I passed with flying colors.
In the meantime, if you're not current do what you can. If you're out of work, you may not be able to rent airplanes, but you can get access to computer simulators, anything at all to keep a scan going. You can study and prepare, and above all be honest and open with the employer.
I can't imagine that the employer fired you for not being current, as that's n easy thing to fix. I suspect that we're not hearing the entire story.
hmmm
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When each subsequent employer looks back over your employment history, how excited do you suppose they'll be when they find you've sued a former employer? How much do you think that will help your prospects down the line.
Why didn't you tell your new employer that you were not current? Have you flown therefore, without the necessary ratings? If so, I fail to see how you would have a case against them.
Do they have the right to sack me without pay or could I go to the small claims court as I was current in my Interview
I think that the calls in the posts above that your career is over are a bit previous. Calm down!
I can't imagine that the employer fired you for not being current, as that's n easy thing to fix. I suspect that we're not hearing the entire story.
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NCM
I bought a rating for a C550 a few years ago as I have reasonably low time, at the time I was hoping to go with a company such as eagle jet and built hours but my money ran out, this position I needed to recoup my expenditure, with the current pilot market I didn't want to loose this chance so when asked about my currencies I skirted around it I was hoping to get renewed once I had some money, safe to say I did not get that far, I did fly on 3 occasions which I presume is why I have been sacked.
Rgds
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Well now, the truth!.
"when asked about my currencies I skirted around it I was hoping to get renewed once I had some money, safe to say I did not get that far, I did fly on 3 occasions which I presume is why I have been sacked."
I think you have said it all. Case closed.
I think you have said it all. Case closed.
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Does it make a diffrence
Does it make a difference this was not an AOC operator it was a private owner who has 3 different aircraft it is not as if I cant fly the aircraft I just needed a little more time I do think it was a little harsh to sack me under the circumstances.
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For clarity, are you saying you flew 3 times with lapsed licenses or they have now lapsed so you can no longer fly ?
I can't understand why you haven't been honest with them from the outset. People understand how expensive it can be to remain current, I'm sure you could have come to some arrangement. If it were my current company (twin pistons also), we would have sorted it out straight away with no hard feelings...... it would be in our own best interests to do so.
Makes no difference if it's AOC or not............ you are an employee and pilot with certain responsibilities.
There's a life lesson here, perhaps learnt the hard way. Be 100% upfront and honest from the outset. If not it WILL come back and bite you.
I can't understand why you haven't been honest with them from the outset. People understand how expensive it can be to remain current, I'm sure you could have come to some arrangement. If it were my current company (twin pistons also), we would have sorted it out straight away with no hard feelings...... it would be in our own best interests to do so.
Makes no difference if it's AOC or not............ you are an employee and pilot with certain responsibilities.
There's a life lesson here, perhaps learnt the hard way. Be 100% upfront and honest from the outset. If not it WILL come back and bite you.
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Flying
No it was lapsed when I was flying, but I was not flying PIC I was flying with another pilot, in my defense when asked about my FAA CPL for the C550 flying I did after being asked come clean that it was only a ppl this is what I think led to the full checks being made. With the cost of gaining more hours how are we supposed to keep current and get a job when everywhere asks for more experience it seems to be catch 22.
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Yet again
"asked about my FAA CPL for the C550 flying I did after being asked come clean that it was only a ppl "
Seems to me that you have been "somewhat frugal" with the truth with your employers to say the least. Look at it from his/Insurance company point of view.
I would suggest you take a good look at yourself and formulate a plan (legal) whereby you can earn some money in order to go back and get current again. Problem is, in the aviation world, a known problem pilot becomes a pariah in no time. I fear you have already gone down that path. Perhaps it is time for a career change.
Seems to me that you have been "somewhat frugal" with the truth with your employers to say the least. Look at it from his/Insurance company point of view.
I would suggest you take a good look at yourself and formulate a plan (legal) whereby you can earn some money in order to go back and get current again. Problem is, in the aviation world, a known problem pilot becomes a pariah in no time. I fear you have already gone down that path. Perhaps it is time for a career change.
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May I say that I'm very much hoping that they were right on the money.
People with this sort of crass judgement and willingness to hide the truth will find themselves as welcome in aviation as a nasty case of the clap at a swingers' convention.
I think that the calls in the posts above that your career is over are a bit previous
People with this sort of crass judgement and willingness to hide the truth will find themselves as welcome in aviation as a nasty case of the clap at a swingers' convention.
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abovetheclouds.
I don't know how to put this nicely but you've really done yourself no favours here. While I'm always a firm believer in not passing judgement without the full story your version thus far paints a less than flattering picture.
Do yourself a favour and stop digging. Put it behind you, try again and for Christ's sake don't even think about doing something like this again.
I don't know how to put this nicely but you've really done yourself no favours here. While I'm always a firm believer in not passing judgement without the full story your version thus far paints a less than flattering picture.
Do yourself a favour and stop digging. Put it behind you, try again and for Christ's sake don't even think about doing something like this again.
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The phrase "By hook or by crook" comes to mind, It is clear you have been less than honest with your employer and I fear this trait will continue.
Aviation has no place for pilots (this term used lightly in your case) who acted in the manner that you did and never will. Leopards never change their spots as the saying goes....For the betterment of all I suggest you stay out of aviation and take a good look at what government institutions may have in store for you should you continue on your present path.
Aviation has no place for pilots (this term used lightly in your case) who acted in the manner that you did and never will. Leopards never change their spots as the saying goes....For the betterment of all I suggest you stay out of aviation and take a good look at what government institutions may have in store for you should you continue on your present path.
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A bit harsh kwachon.
A wise one once told me "Son. The most dangerous thing in aviation is an untested assumption" and I think we all agree there's more to this than we've been told.
On the face of it (and I really would like more information before reaching my own conclusion) he's been stupid but who knows what led him to it? We don't that's for sure. Whatever it was I'd say there's a valuable lesson here and his career is salvageable. Scary forecasts of him being doomed to menial jobs for the rest of his natural are unwarranted although I'd say he wouldn't have many chances left.
Can we knock the melodrama on the head?
A wise one once told me "Son. The most dangerous thing in aviation is an untested assumption" and I think we all agree there's more to this than we've been told.
On the face of it (and I really would like more information before reaching my own conclusion) he's been stupid but who knows what led him to it? We don't that's for sure. Whatever it was I'd say there's a valuable lesson here and his career is salvageable. Scary forecasts of him being doomed to menial jobs for the rest of his natural are unwarranted although I'd say he wouldn't have many chances left.
Can we knock the melodrama on the head?
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Flintstone, I think as more facts come out it becomes clearer that the intent was far from honorable here, whether it was to get current or not. What if a member of your family was onboard the aircraft and god forbid something happened, what then?, I for one do not need an individual of this kind in the right seat of my aircraft, there are many others myself included who went through all the hoops legally to get to where they are now and this kind of behaviour does none of us any favours. Harsh yes, real yes, but true.
Quote Flintstone: "On the face of it (and I really would like more information before reaching my own conclusion) he's been stupid but who knows what led him to it? We don't that's for sure. Whatever it was I'd say there's a valuable lesson here and his career is salvageable. Scary forecasts of him being doomed to menial jobs for the rest of his natural are unwarranted although I'd say he wouldn't have many chances left."
Sums it up, IMO.
@ATC: I was and am chiefpilot in 2 different operations, and what I fear most is dishonesty. i cant cope with e.g. a dented radome, but I would hate to learn the hard way (e.g. during takeoff) that someone overtorqued my engine and it comes apart therefore.
And thats why IMO honesty MUST be part of your nature. We can just hope you learned something from that. Seeing the court is IMO the worst thing you could now, Aviation is a small world - no one will touch you even with protective gear if you sue someone that sacked you with good cause...
Still, as a colleaugue and not a jugde, I hope you can get a decent job in some other place and learn from what just happened.
Sums it up, IMO.
@ATC: I was and am chiefpilot in 2 different operations, and what I fear most is dishonesty. i cant cope with e.g. a dented radome, but I would hate to learn the hard way (e.g. during takeoff) that someone overtorqued my engine and it comes apart therefore.
And thats why IMO honesty MUST be part of your nature. We can just hope you learned something from that. Seeing the court is IMO the worst thing you could now, Aviation is a small world - no one will touch you even with protective gear if you sue someone that sacked you with good cause...
Still, as a colleaugue and not a jugde, I hope you can get a decent job in some other place and learn from what just happened.
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kwachon, we still don't have the whole story. Aviation has taught me to seek out ALL the facts before pointing fingers. It may well be as you describe but if I arrive at that conclusion it will be when/if I have all the information, not by joining dots.
What if my family had been on board? You mean realistically or in a Daily Mail fashion? Realistically I suppose the flight would have concluded safely (as I assume all three did) albeit under the guidance of an illegal pilot.
Would I have been happy? Of course not but neither would I have been wringing my hands, moaning "Wailey wailey" and telling all concerned they'd never work in this industry again.
Never bust a rule yourself? Ever? Honestly?
What if my family had been on board? You mean realistically or in a Daily Mail fashion? Realistically I suppose the flight would have concluded safely (as I assume all three did) albeit under the guidance of an illegal pilot.
Would I have been happy? Of course not but neither would I have been wringing my hands, moaning "Wailey wailey" and telling all concerned they'd never work in this industry again.
Never bust a rule yourself? Ever? Honestly?
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The call to knock the melodrama on the head was well founded. The original question was can the employer be taken to court? Short answer from what has been said is: no.
Someone above suggested it would be a foolish move to contemplate court action, and I would have to agree. Head down, get current, move on, and being honest in future seems to be good advice, however much it hurts at the time.
By the way, I knew a chap once who flew with a lapsed rating, which was due to a genuine oversight rather than desire to deceive. He decided, on realising what had happened, he must own up to the authorities, and whilst a letter came back rapping knuckles firmly and squarely, no further action was taken, and he continues to fly now, perfectly safely I might add, without further incident.
Someone above suggested it would be a foolish move to contemplate court action, and I would have to agree. Head down, get current, move on, and being honest in future seems to be good advice, however much it hurts at the time.
By the way, I knew a chap once who flew with a lapsed rating, which was due to a genuine oversight rather than desire to deceive. He decided, on realising what had happened, he must own up to the authorities, and whilst a letter came back rapping knuckles firmly and squarely, no further action was taken, and he continues to fly now, perfectly safely I might add, without further incident.