Bomber Command Memorial (Merged)

[Al R]

Folding Wings,

The memorial you speak of is one to French Napoleonic soldiers captured, and imprisoned in P'boro. It is at Norman's Cross, just of the A1 north of Stilton. A camp for French and Dutch soldiers and sailors was built there between 1796 and 1816, and about 10,000 prisoners were held there. 1,700 died and were buried in the camp's cemetery, which is now well and truly ploughed over and is behind the motel which may be seen from the A1. Several thousand English troops were stationed there as well, to guard the POWs and its the reason why there are so many French names in and around Yaxley and P'boro.

It was located next to the A1, but was moved to its current location when the upgrading of the stretch to Motorway status was completed in 1998.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cross

http://stilton.org/cam_norman_cross_memorial.html

[Al R]

I have spent the day mulling a lot of things over, I am an impulsive bloke and I need to keep that in check! Thanks for all the PMs.. many from serving officers who have got shedloads of experience we need. Reading todays additions made me realise that to communicate properly, we need to be able to see things in width and in depth, and more than one thing at once too. I have set this up, I have probably done it all wrong, but it might be a useful addition if we're to work as efficiently and as effectively as we can.

Bear in mind too, that the Bomber Command Association meets soon, so if we're to present some ideas to them (they are keen in principle to help), we need to move quickly. If you're of a mind, please have a look, save it to faves and join up. It'll be somewhere for discussion that has its own focus, and where we can attract attention orput on a website homepage.

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

It takes a few seconds to join and there's no waiting.

[Al R]

AA and Chuggers,

You've both got really valid points about the publicity, and I agree with bits of both of them, and I don't say that in the manner of some patronising pratt. You say things I hadn't thought of, and we need to plunder whats lurking in that grey matter.

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

Lets explore those ideas further.

Forget, and Hugh,

I love both those ideas. For what its worth I found myself on an old airfield today and I shivered, not from the cold, but from 'this'. For what its worth, here's my scheme! A huge (bronze) hand, uncurling, and pointing/facing towards where the boys would be returning from, and on the wrist, clambering up the palm and fingers, a crew.. all ready to go, looking skywards. At the base, a lady with a child signifying those who lost a lot more, a lot closer to home.

[Al R]

Forget,

Our bronze Eagle posts clashed a bit. Cold today, what?!

[Al R]

Foldie,

Good scheme ref the ACA etc, and the list of benefactors. I can think of some serious mainstream meeja heavyweights who I know will give this clout. One only has to see the list of donors at the US museum at Duxford to see that too. Can you help?

[foldingwings]

Just a point while I think of it:

I'd be disinclined to put the names of the dead on the memorial (as suggested by someone about 3 pages back). I would see the memorial more as a tribute to all those men of Bomber Command who gave their all for this country, not only those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

Foldie

PS. Ref Golden Eagle! I never had time to stop and look, I was going to Scotland, fer Chrissake (in a TR6!). Looked like Air Force from 80(!) kts with my ass scraping along the deck!

[Chugalug2]

Well we seem to have set ourselves an awesome task here folks. Just to state the bleedingly obvious, if we're to proceed, and it seems that we already have, we have to succeed, so we have to do it right. IMHO it calls for horses for courses. In other words the best chance for success is from those who have already experienced success in similar ventures. This is no time to be shy. The project addresses the one big injustice concerning the RAF in WW2, the lack of a national memorial to the sacrifice made by the crews of Bomber Command on our behalf over 60 years ago. If you think that is a scandal then register with Al R's CP at:

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

and have your say. These are early days but we need to hit the road runnning with a full crew all going the same way.

[Chugalug2]

Bomber Command Memorial

Bouncing this thread to the top again. Don't stop with all the thoughts and suggestions. Many will have no more time available other than to do just that, but such contributions are still valuable and keep this project in the forefront of everybody's mind. Lots of great input already, but let's have lots more please!

[foldingwings]

28 October 2007 - Petition Status Report

Only 358 Names On The Petition At 0816 Hrs Today - That's A Very Small Percentage Of The Lives Lost In Bomber Command During The Second World War That This Country Has Not Recognised With Either An Appropriate Memorial Or A Campaign Medal

disgusting!

Foldie

[Al R]

Best foot forward then Foldie?

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

[foldingwings]

Yep, I know. Just getting round to it!

[Al R]

lol. Its Sunday morning, I understand!

[forget]

I thought this may be of some interest. RCAF Bomber Command Memorial.

http://www.lancastermuseum.ca/memorialgranite.html

PS ..... and RAAF here.

http://www.skp.com.au/memorials2/pages/00058.htm

PPS .......... and SAAF here, with WWII included

http://www.af.mil.za/NEWS/2007/064.htm

[Chugalug2]

Great post, Forget, thank you! It illustrates clearly the choice between the 'traditional' form of memorial, typically marble panels bearing the names of the fallen, and the 'designer' interpretive statement type, illustrated by the 'searchlight' pylon. Of the two I very much favour the former. Having no doubt travelled a fair way to visit such a memorial there is a comfort in finding the name of one's lost relative. I remember the one time I was able to visit the CWGC cemetery at Yokohama, armed with an alphanumeric grave location. Having tracked it down the tingle on seeing my Dad's name there on a bronze plaque so far from home will never leave me. In these things tradition is a virtue, I think.

[herkman]

A suggestion if I may.

The Australian government takes great enjoyment, if that is the word, to financing memorials both within Australia, and overseas. Gives the learned gentlemen a chance to strut around and look important.

Having had some exposure to Veterans Affairs down here, I would be most surprised if they would not help with the costs.

Also with Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and I am sure some I cannot recall, then perhaps it should be a joint funding operation.

This also will put the UK government on the back foot, after all one should not appear to be reluctant, even if one is.

With the chance that we too, may have a change of our masters, now could be the chance to move.

I would be quite happy to give any assistance from our end.

Lot of ex BC chaps down here.

Regards

Col

[Al R]

Col,

What a spendid suggestion.

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

See you there?

[Hugh Spencer]

Bomber Command Memorial

I seem to be the only ex WW2 Bomber Command aircrew contributing at the moment but I like the ideas of Roland Pulfrew, forget and snapper41. They get away from the customary slab covered, deservedly mind you, with lost aircrew. Any of those above would be very eye catching which would make up of the public disregard and disinterest shown over the past 62 years. Let's keep this enthusiasm going and probe for commercial interest to see this worthwhile project come to fruition.

[Al R]

Hi Hugh,

I hope you are well sir!!

I have had chats with RAFA and with the Bomber Command Assoc this morning and, as is the way, at this stage its a question of firstly addressing deconflictation issues and then a multitude of other matters before you get anywhere near the door.

Its still early days, but the initial feedback is all good. It would seem that the support is there, so in principle there is nothing to stop things progressing in a healthy manner. The tendency would be to tap into the enthusiasm we have and just go at it hammer and tongues, but this might take a while. Softly softly, catchy monkey.

I'll summarise what both bodies said and post the feedback here and on the Bomber Boys chat net later today. If you'd like to join us there, you'd be more than welcome. We need input from people like you Hugh, its priceless.

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

Al.

[Al R]

I had a couple of chats with the Bomber Command Assoc (BCA) today, and with RAFA.

First, the BCA.

They have no record of anyone approaching them to try and get something like this going, and are very keen to work with us. They have a constant stream of members asking why there is no memorial, so it suits them to be able to tell their members that matters are in hand. They have 5000 members and would like for the members (obviously) to be consulted/informed/taken into account as things progress. They have an executive meeting on the 14th Nov and would like that a presentation of our plans to be made to them. Obviously, they are collocated at the IWM, and with the officers and trustees of the Assoc being who they are, they’re neatly connected. They are willing to help in the background, and to offer advice.

RAFA is organising a RAF garden of reflection at the National Memorial in Staffs. RAFA is not able, through its Charter, to actively campaign for memorials (seems like it’s a similar arrangement that the BCA has), but is keen to help support something else, if the project is right. They are even more keen than the BCA that the membership needs to be involved, which helps us anyway, as it means that we get the right publicity out to grass roots in one big hit. RAFA is well placed to offer media support and pr advice, which we'd be daft not to tap into. To be connected with us would help both of us. We get their advice and infrastructure, they're seen to be doing the right sort of thing. It has a small fundraising team, which raises £3million per annum for other things, but I would imagine that our efforts in that area would have to be seperate though. The quiet support of both organisations would be a massive help. Even a quiet nod will be invaluable when approaching sponsors with connected men at the top.

RAFA touched on an aspect that we hadn’t considered, that of the boys’ endeavours being seen as an inspiration. RAFA feels that the way Bomber Command conducted itself, its professionalism and sacrifices should be seen in the context of being inspirational, but that it should also very definitely, be somewhere for reflection too. RAF talked about what AA mentioned, the need for a peripheral draw, to keep people returning, and visiting.

They both said that the Bomber boys are a very active bunch, and they didn’t mention that the location had to be so important in the grand scheme of things, although obviously, there must be a reason for it to be there. In summary, it seems that there is no focused, co ordinated push to get something done. The boys at Bicester are doing a cracking job it seems, at keeping the site there safe, but there is limited success at the moment in getting a memorial going, hardly surprising given the magnitude of what they've taken on! Both groups are keen to help.. it allows them to be seen to be doing the right thing in light of their constraints, it is the right thing and its blummin' well long overdue.

I would suggest that we approach the Bicester boys (who are trying to save the Bicester site) and see if we can assume responsibility for the memorial itself, with their support and help, which hopefully that will allow them to focus on the nuts and bolts of saving the site (if thats where we're going to select). If we have support from some players for the memorial in principle, if we get some funding rolling in, then it might make their job easier, if they are able to indicate that they want to place there, a memorial which looks like it will have massive popular support.

The MP is a long standing Tory.

http://www.tonybaldry.org.uk/index.jsp

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/tony_baldry/banbury

In summary; he likes hunting and Trident more than he does gay people and students, but his record on defence issues is patchy. nderstandably, he has a vested interest in keeping Bicester going, although I imagine the prospect of lots of new well heeled house buyers into new houses there will warm the cockles of his heart just as nicely. This seems to be the most obvious reference to what he's spoken about. I'm sure he'll want to impress his constituency neigbour too.. it might be assesment time.

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/ton...banbury#topics

If anyone has any ideas, then please pipe up here or comment on the Bomber Boys chatnet. All input, advice and involvement gratefully received.

http://www.mfipb.com/index.php?mforu...erboys&act=idx

[TheStrawMan]

Dambusters memorial is 'defaced'

Dambusters memorial is 'defaced'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/7082401.stm