Virgin Atlantic Concorde
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Mk. 1 desk at present...
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Jordan D:
Yes, they have an airframe that works, but it doesn't have the capacity to be economic.
And 'sturdier materials'... that's a whole different ball game in terms of redesign, analysis, testing, certification...
But you don't even mention the main problem: the engines. Too noisy, too inefficient (yes I know the argument that the Olympus by some measures is the most efficient jet engine ever built, in the M 2.0 cruise - but the overall gas mileage still sucks!).
Fancy taking a bet on the cost of getting a new supersonic turbofan engine certified, and doing some guesswork on how many you'll sell at the end of it?
And we haven't even started on the issue of limited routes due sonic boom over land...
The great shame about Concorde, IMHO, is that it was started 5-10 years too soon... the technology wasn't quite there. Not enough people really care about saving a lousy three hours transatlantic... if they had waited a bit, got better materials (especially engine materials), thought things through better... we would have the 7 hour LAX-SYD flight. THAT, people will say, is a worthwhile time saving.
The airframes aren't terminally shagged; the willpower and economics are.
R1, sad.
but how difficult would it be to build a new fleet of Concorde .... I mean all the test work has been done, they know an airframe that works. All it needs are sturdier materials (which, lets be honest, this many years hence shouldn't be a problem), and a new flight control system (the only 'new' bit).
And 'sturdier materials'... that's a whole different ball game in terms of redesign, analysis, testing, certification...
But you don't even mention the main problem: the engines. Too noisy, too inefficient (yes I know the argument that the Olympus by some measures is the most efficient jet engine ever built, in the M 2.0 cruise - but the overall gas mileage still sucks!).
Fancy taking a bet on the cost of getting a new supersonic turbofan engine certified, and doing some guesswork on how many you'll sell at the end of it?
And we haven't even started on the issue of limited routes due sonic boom over land...
The great shame about Concorde, IMHO, is that it was started 5-10 years too soon... the technology wasn't quite there. Not enough people really care about saving a lousy three hours transatlantic... if they had waited a bit, got better materials (especially engine materials), thought things through better... we would have the 7 hour LAX-SYD flight. THAT, people will say, is a worthwhile time saving.
The airframes aren't terminally shagged; the willpower and economics are.
R1, sad.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Your also forgetting that they could go supersonic across to Japan, seeing as the Russians were one of the few people who didn't mind about it going Supersonic across their backyard (aka Siberia).
Jordan
Jordan
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Why don't the a/c manufacturers start to produce some more radical designs? An Oblique wing for example could be flown supersonically, and at around M1.2-1.4 the over-pressure is not great enough to cause an problems if the a/c is flying above about 36,000 ft. (Shockwave will not reach ground level, therefore no problem)
Technically, ideas like these are feasible, but would airlines buy them? Would pax fly on them?
Concorde is a marvel and I shall be very sad on friday. A well maintained service Conc at Duxford would be a nice idea, as long as they don't knacker the langing gear bringing it in, unlike the one already there!!
Technically, ideas like these are feasible, but would airlines buy them? Would pax fly on them?
Concorde is a marvel and I shall be very sad on friday. A well maintained service Conc at Duxford would be a nice idea, as long as they don't knacker the langing gear bringing it in, unlike the one already there!!
If memory serves, didn't Concorde have an eleventh hour deadline to get to Duxford before the M11 was built, restricting the available runway length? If so, any other Concorde would surely only get there by road?
But better that than getting covered in seagull poo on a totally undeserving Spam aircraft carrier or over in Seattle.....
But better that than getting covered in seagull poo on a totally undeserving Spam aircraft carrier or over in Seattle.....
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: N51:37:39 W1:19:16 Feel free to use as a waypoint.
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Err Beags
Not wishing to interrupt the flow, but the aircraft carrier is in New York, the one in Seattle will be under cover.
As you were
Not wishing to interrupt the flow, but the aircraft carrier is in New York, the one in Seattle will be under cover.
As you were
Would it not be very interesting if BA were to offer the grinning pullover 5 Concordes "as seen" for £5 on 25 October?
It would be very interesting to see how he could dig himself out of that situation with any honour.
It would be very interesting to see how he could dig himself out of that situation with any honour.
