Qantas Recruitment
We are talking civil , not whether someone has acted unlawfully
Why could it not be argued that introducing a B scale as you are hiring someone & tagging them AirbusMFF
years before the A350 arrives is a breach of the EBA clause- "B scale implemented when SOs recruited for 330/350 dual role"
This was done in 2022 - does anyone think the A350 will arrive before 2026 ?
So what you would be doing is asking the Judge to issue an order that B scale introduction date be pushed back , to a date that aligns more closely
with the arrival of the AC. And request orders that those affected be compensated for lost monies & be put on A Scale Airbus SO rates
This is where it could get very messy, how do you compensate someone who jumped to 737
Its a simple question for a Judge to resolve , is putting someone on A350 B Scale (where the company will save tens of millions) years before the aircraft
arrives a try on ?
Why could it not be argued that introducing a B scale as you are hiring someone & tagging them AirbusMFF
years before the A350 arrives is a breach of the EBA clause- "B scale implemented when SOs recruited for 330/350 dual role"
This was done in 2022 - does anyone think the A350 will arrive before 2026 ?
So what you would be doing is asking the Judge to issue an order that B scale introduction date be pushed back , to a date that aligns more closely
with the arrival of the AC. And request orders that those affected be compensated for lost monies & be put on A Scale Airbus SO rates
This is where it could get very messy, how do you compensate someone who jumped to 737
Its a simple question for a Judge to resolve , is putting someone on A350 B Scale (where the company will save tens of millions) years before the aircraft
arrives a try on ?
The rates in clause 32.7 will apply to all new S/O’s commencing employment under this Agreement after the Company has:
(a) placed an initial order for the A350 and has done so on the basis that it intends to have pilots operate the aircraft on the terms set out in EBA10; and
(b) commenced recruitment of S/O’s into the A330/A350SFF category
(a) was satisfied in May last year.
(b) has already started. The EA doesn’t specify a minimum time before aircraft arrival when that category can commence, just that when it starts the new pay rates apply.
You might not see this as ethical but it probably isn’t illegal.
Both criteria need to be met & I think the second one is problematic for QF & also "got past" AIPA ( & asleep at the wheel attorneys)
Is it fair , reasonable etc to unilaterally state you are hiring for A350 , when the aircraft is years away ?
Is that normal practice ?, has it been done before ? , oh & it saves QF a large amount of money & perhaps contributes to the direct personal
financial benefit of a number of QF Exec/Managers etc in terms of a bonus payment
It will look even more ridiculous if special build A350 delayed to 26/27 or so , which is probably quite likely
They can't just "make it up" , it isn't Dodge City & the employees have rights in Australia
But if you simply choose not to assert those rights that's also your free choice to make
Is it fair , reasonable etc to unilaterally state you are hiring for A350 , when the aircraft is years away ?
Is that normal practice ?, has it been done before ? , oh & it saves QF a large amount of money & perhaps contributes to the direct personal
financial benefit of a number of QF Exec/Managers etc in terms of a bonus payment
It will look even more ridiculous if special build A350 delayed to 26/27 or so , which is probably quite likely
They can't just "make it up" , it isn't Dodge City & the employees have rights in Australia
But if you simply choose not to assert those rights that's also your free choice to make
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Unfortunately not the Orient
Posts: 393
Likes: 0
Received 96 Likes
on
35 Posts
It would be lovely if we could argue all those things Makito. But the language is in print. We may not like it (I don’t like it either), but let be realistic, what’s the point of fighting about it? New SO’s just need to understand the state of play and plan accordingly. Neither You, I, or AIPA or the AFAP the TWU or even the CFMEU are able change it. It sucks yes, but it’s already law,
The rates in clause 32.7 will apply to all new S/O’s commencing employment under this Agreement after the Company has:
(a) placed an initial order for the A350 and has done so on the basis that it intends to have pilots operate the aircraft on the terms set out in EBA10; and
(b) commenced recruitment of S/O’s into the A330/A350SFF category
(a) placed an initial order for the A350 and has done so on the basis that it intends to have pilots operate the aircraft on the terms set out in EBA10; and
(b) commenced recruitment of S/O’s into the A330/A350SFF category
After delivering a record A$1.43 billion half-year profit, QF resorts to the above..meanwhile...Emirates posted a $2.9 billion profit for the fiscal year ended on March 31 and will reward all 50 000+ employees with a bonus equivalent to 24 Weeks Of Pay with their May salary.
Emirates Pays Employees SIX MONTHS Worth Of Salary After Posting Record Profits
Bin Chicken International as alluded by some, probably not that far off after all
Last edited by RealSatoshi; 18th May 2023 at 15:09.
Did you actually read the article?
’Carriers like Emirates are under constant pressure to recruit sufficient numbers of staff and this will no doubt help them with future recruitment efforts.’
Poorly worded agreement by a union that collects 0.88% of Annual Gross Salary from every member...The Mind Boggles.
After delivering a record A$1.43 billion half-year profit, QF resorts to the above..meanwhile...Emirates posted a $2.9 billion profit for the fiscal year ended on March 31 and will reward all 50 000+ employees with a bonus equivalent to 24 Weeks Of Pay with their May salary.
Emirates Pays Employees SIX MONTHS Worth Of Salary After Posting Record Profits
Bin Chicken International as alluded by some, probably not that far off after all
After delivering a record A$1.43 billion half-year profit, QF resorts to the above..meanwhile...Emirates posted a $2.9 billion profit for the fiscal year ended on March 31 and will reward all 50 000+ employees with a bonus equivalent to 24 Weeks Of Pay with their May salary.
Emirates Pays Employees SIX MONTHS Worth Of Salary After Posting Record Profits
Bin Chicken International as alluded by some, probably not that far off after all
The following users liked this post:
The following 5 users liked this post by Koizi:
Sure, I'll raise you by one: Singapore Air Hands Staff Eight Months’ Salary Bonus After Record Results
So both airlines are just as bad as each other? I agree.
Sounds like you’d be happier working for an airline with a lower paid CEO? You should look into that.
This while the CEO is the highest earner per market cap when compared to all of his peers in the US.
Last from me on this point
SP, why do you say "its law" , laws are something that are passed by parliaments , its a workplace agreement / contract, it doesn't have status
of an act of parliament
Or are you saying , because QF management decide to interpret in a particular way , that is "the law"
Think just have to agree to disagree, & the point of the disagreement is interpretation of the employment contract
If another clause was added stating "The commencement of recruitment to category 330/350 will be at the sole discretion of QF Airways , irrespective of datal arrival of 350 fleet"
Think you would have a bigger battle, but black letter words get struck out from contract/statutes all the time for all sorts of legal reasons (legal principels, unconstit , violates case law) , well above my skill set
There are things a Pilot Union (PU) could do about it whether the PU be AIPA, TWU or the BScale SOs acting for themselves.
You would almost certainly have to litigate it & seek orders , B Scale scrapped for moment, compensation/back pay etc etc. Big Unions are in the courts all the time & they win on a regular basis
What's the issue with going to court , if an employer has acted in a way that is wrong, its nothing personal
Its part of the system, otherwise you are just letting these guys walk all over you
Introducing 350 category 4 + years out would be very hard (imho) to get past a judge , for new types (QF /ANZ) , SOs typically arrive at most 6 months before first AC.
Good chance a judge would see it as blatant cost cutting & executives maximising their direct personal financial benefit . Really just rolling the eyes & saying "nice try"
Aussie corporates get pinged all the time in the Courts for cheeky "try-ons" , & make good orders are issued
SP, why do you say "its law" , laws are something that are passed by parliaments , its a workplace agreement / contract, it doesn't have status
of an act of parliament
Or are you saying , because QF management decide to interpret in a particular way , that is "the law"
Think just have to agree to disagree, & the point of the disagreement is interpretation of the employment contract
If another clause was added stating "The commencement of recruitment to category 330/350 will be at the sole discretion of QF Airways , irrespective of datal arrival of 350 fleet"
Think you would have a bigger battle, but black letter words get struck out from contract/statutes all the time for all sorts of legal reasons (legal principels, unconstit , violates case law) , well above my skill set
There are things a Pilot Union (PU) could do about it whether the PU be AIPA, TWU or the BScale SOs acting for themselves.
You would almost certainly have to litigate it & seek orders , B Scale scrapped for moment, compensation/back pay etc etc. Big Unions are in the courts all the time & they win on a regular basis
What's the issue with going to court , if an employer has acted in a way that is wrong, its nothing personal
Its part of the system, otherwise you are just letting these guys walk all over you
Introducing 350 category 4 + years out would be very hard (imho) to get past a judge , for new types (QF /ANZ) , SOs typically arrive at most 6 months before first AC.
Good chance a judge would see it as blatant cost cutting & executives maximising their direct personal financial benefit . Really just rolling the eyes & saying "nice try"
Aussie corporates get pinged all the time in the Courts for cheeky "try-ons" , & make good orders are issued
Last edited by Makiko; 19th May 2023 at 06:42.