Australian pilots can work for US regionals.
E3 is (or was) a great opportunity for a number of guys and girls but is anyone other than maybe Atlas actively employing under the Visa anymore? From what I have heard the airlines are pretty well staffed and not short of applicants these days.
Also, they have never come close to the cap of 10,500 per year at any time since the Visa was created. So this would not be much of an issue I wouldn't think.
Also, they have never come close to the cap of 10,500 per year at any time since the Visa was created. So this would not be much of an issue I wouldn't think.
The US and E3 jobs aren’t going to be for me in the end but had timing worked out slightly differently I think it would’ve been an amazing opportunity and hopefully it’ll continue to be for many Aussies.
Just out of interest for those of us playing along at home, who is hiring E3s at the moment, especially new E3s? Has the (temporary) slowdown at the majors, particularly UAL, trickled down and slowed down hiring at the LCCs and regionals? Is it a general slowdown, or just for FOs as many companies prioritize captain hiring?
The US and E3 jobs aren’t going to be for me in the end but had timing worked out slightly differently I think it would’ve been an amazing opportunity and hopefully it’ll continue to be for many Aussies.
The US and E3 jobs aren’t going to be for me in the end but had timing worked out slightly differently I think it would’ve been an amazing opportunity and hopefully it’ll continue to be for many Aussies.
I remember when airlines would have website pages specifically detailing E3 criteria. I'd be surprised if regionals were taking fresh 1500-hour E3s these days.
I'm not disputing what you mention at all, but I notice that the airlines you list do not specifically state on their websites that they're taking E3s. They suggest that non-US citizens are eligible with fuzzy language about "legally able to work in the USA" or words to that effect. Hard to tell what that actually means in practice.
I remember when airlines would have website pages specifically detailing E3 criteria. I'd be surprised if regionals were taking fresh 1500-hour E3s these days.
I remember when airlines would have website pages specifically detailing E3 criteria. I'd be surprised if regionals were taking fresh 1500-hour E3s these days.
Interesting. What quals did your friends have ?
Did some homework and only find Gojet with a dedicated E3 page:
https://www.gojetairlines.com/e3/
PSA, Gojet and Commutair (and Breeze, I think) used to advertise for E3s but only Gojet still has an E3 page. There are obviously things going on behind the scenes.
Last edited by bafanguy; 23rd May 2024 at 14:34. Reason: stuff
FYI all, the 100 cap is an agreement with the union, not a department of labor or other government restriction. Believe they’ve nearly hit the E3 cap for 2024. Still actively hiring and looking at the upcoming classes they are pretty busy.
Probably Spirit due to A320 time and a bigger more secure operation. In saying that Breeze is a much quicker upgrade on the A220 with better seniority and if they last you will be in a better position a few years from now.
It all depends what you want in life, where you want to live, opportunity, upgrade times etc…
Breeze planes look cooler though…😎
It all depends what you want in life, where you want to live, opportunity, upgrade times etc…
Breeze planes look cooler though…😎
Yes, Breeze is currently upgrading the Australian’s on E3’s after about 14-15 months and 1000hrs RHS!
Not for a while now while the 737 and 767 guys take up the training pipeline for the next year or so, unfortunately. They'll be desperately short once that's over IMO.
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It's hard to know the status (or future) of the E3 visa with US airlines. Whatever is happening, if anything, is going on behind a bit of a curtain. Airlines used to post their acceptance of E3 applicants.
Today, only Gojets has a dedicated E3 page on their website. If new 1500 hour E3s are being hired like they have done in the past, it's not being advertised or commented on publicly. Piedmont and Commutair used to have E3 pages.
https://www.gojetairlines.com/e3/
Today, only Gojets has a dedicated E3 page on their website. If new 1500 hour E3s are being hired like they have done in the past, it's not being advertised or commented on publicly. Piedmont and Commutair used to have E3 pages.
https://www.gojetairlines.com/e3/
Last edited by bafanguy; 26th Jun 2024 at 22:58.
It's hard to know the status (or future) of the E3 visa with US airlines. Whatever is happening, if anything, is going on behind a bit of a curtain. Airlines used to post their acceptance of E3 applicants.
Today, only Gojets has a dedicated E3 page on their website. If new 1500 hour E3s are being hired like they have done in the past, it's not being advertised or commented on publicly. Piedmont and Commutair used to have E3 pages.
https://www.gojetairlines.com/e3/
Today, only Gojets has a dedicated E3 page on their website. If new 1500 hour E3s are being hired like they have done in the past, it's not being advertised or commented on publicly. Piedmont and Commutair used to have E3 pages.
https://www.gojetairlines.com/e3/
SkyWest kind of tried to get rid of E3 people, if they really truly wanted to they still could have easily done it with no problems. It was more a good will thing at the end that stopped them rather than any legal precedent.
There is absolutely nothing at all that prevents a company from declining to renew your Visa. It is not a furlough and it is not firing.
They can just say "We wont be renewing and you need to arrange the right to work here on your own" and no it is not true the union/contract/whatever deity you worship can stop them despite many peoples beliefs I have heard.
Its a great experience but there is little job security and you are always considered just a temporary worker if things turn pear shaped.
Good news is that hiring there will likely pick up in 2025 onwards again so keep an eye on things for anyone interested.
There is absolutely nothing at all that prevents a company from declining to renew your Visa. It is not a furlough and it is not firing.
They can just say "We wont be renewing and you need to arrange the right to work here on your own" and no it is not true the union/contract/whatever deity you worship can stop them despite many peoples beliefs I have heard.
Its a great experience but there is little job security and you are always considered just a temporary worker if things turn pear shaped.
Good news is that hiring there will likely pick up in 2025 onwards again so keep an eye on things for anyone interested.
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This is an excellent post and something worth pondering if in the USA or planning to join on an E3.
I’ve come off worse for wear twice in my career and the group think and pilot consensus was it can’t happen. Rational thinking or irrational hope, it doesn’t matter, pilots are pawns and swept aside with ease and enthusiasm. Can’t go broke, we are owned by the NZ government was a ripper. Or Hong Kong Labour Law and Chinese government route rules mean they can’t shut us down. Two airlines gone and the folly of pilots saw most hanging on hopeful til the end!
The E3 Visa is an interesting scenario and I don’t believe it as secure as I first thought. Below is a transcript from the Union. You don’t think the language supports the laying of Aussies on the sacrificial alter if expedience dictates?
Now for the common sense. There is a significant pilot shortage and standards can be debilitatingly low for airlines training for expansion & attrition. Now add training repeats and outright training failures requiring additional burden on a training department!
So from a business sense, a small group of Australians pilots, mostly experienced and highly successful at riding the training programmes of initial, recurrent and upgrades, is an asset. If they aren’t running off to the majors and attrition far less than their local colleagues, again a big plus. Why get rid of them in all but the gravest of circumstances?
And a Make America Great again? Wow. Green Card holders come from everywhere including sworn enemies of the US. E3’s are from a close ally and the reciprocal is loaded by many more thousands of Americans- and set to rise with AUKUS.
I’ve come off worse for wear twice in my career and the group think and pilot consensus was it can’t happen. Rational thinking or irrational hope, it doesn’t matter, pilots are pawns and swept aside with ease and enthusiasm. Can’t go broke, we are owned by the NZ government was a ripper. Or Hong Kong Labour Law and Chinese government route rules mean they can’t shut us down. Two airlines gone and the folly of pilots saw most hanging on hopeful til the end!
The E3 Visa is an interesting scenario and I don’t believe it as secure as I first thought. Below is a transcript from the Union. You don’t think the language supports the laying of Aussies on the sacrificial alter if expedience dictates?
Now for the common sense. There is a significant pilot shortage and standards can be debilitatingly low for airlines training for expansion & attrition. Now add training repeats and outright training failures requiring additional burden on a training department!
So from a business sense, a small group of Australians pilots, mostly experienced and highly successful at riding the training programmes of initial, recurrent and upgrades, is an asset. If they aren’t running off to the majors and attrition far less than their local colleagues, again a big plus. Why get rid of them in all but the gravest of circumstances?
And a Make America Great again? Wow. Green Card holders come from everywhere including sworn enemies of the US. E3’s are from a close ally and the reciprocal is loaded by many more thousands of Americans- and set to rise with AUKUS.
The ONLY difference with regards to the Visa is the Company’s ability to refuse the renewal of the Visa. Should this ever occur, it must be done with just cause and in some sort of seniority order. Otherwise, all members are afforded the same and equal protections under the CBA, including commuting.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 29th Jun 2024 at 07:56.
You don’t think the language supports the laying of Aussies on the sacrificial alter if expedience dictates?
So from a business sense, a small group of Australians pilots, mostly experienced and highly successful at riding the training programmes of initial, recurrent and upgrades, is an asset. If they aren’t running off to the majors and attrition far less than their local colleagues, again a big plus. Why get rid of them in all but the gravest of circumstances?
So from a business sense, a small group of Australians pilots, mostly experienced and highly successful at riding the training programmes of initial, recurrent and upgrades, is an asset. If they aren’t running off to the majors and attrition far less than their local colleagues, again a big plus. Why get rid of them in all but the gravest of circumstances?
It's difficult to predict management behavior should circumstances require laying off pilots. For airlines with union representation and a seniority list, staff reductions will be in strict reverse-seniority order. Agreed, they may get rid of E3s by simply not supporting renewal of them. Not sure what influence the union would have in that case. It's uncharted territory as far as I know. From all the negative talk about Spirit Airlines' situation, maybe they'll be the first to demonstrate how it's done.
As for running off to the majors, if you mean the likes of DL, UA, AA, UPS, FedEx, etc, I've not seen evidence of that level of carrier accepting anything below a green card. They simply have have hordes of qualified applicants without visa complications, especially with hiring slowing down.
Time will tell, I suppose.
As for running off to the majors, if you mean the likes of DL, UA, AA, UPS, FedEx, etc, I've not seen evidence of that level of carrier accepting anything below a green card. They simply have have hordes of qualified applicants without visa complications, especially with hiring slowing down.
My point contrary to your interpretation. If you have a cadre of Australian pilots, who can’t move up to the majors and have consistent rates of training success, that may be seen as an asset versus a mobile, often less experienced and consequently less consistent in training performance. It would to be if I a manager but hey!
My point contrary to your interpretation. If you have a cadre of Australian pilots, who can’t move up to the majors and have consistent rates of training success, that may be seen as an asset versus a mobile, often less experienced and consequently less consistent in training performance. It would to be if I a manager but hey!
I don't disagree with that in principle. It's plausible but we all know that management are a fickle, unpredictable bunch.
I just can't predict how much influence/control a union would have over this should some management group try to rid themselves of E3s out of seniority.
Until we see a US carrier take action (or try to take action) involving disposing of their E3s, we're just The Blind Men and An Elephant.
I suspect that if an airline were to do a pseudo furlough by simply not renewing E3s, the union would probably have a pretty reasonable case to file a grievance against management. That would probably be little consolation to those affected after the fact though. E3s also effectively cost nothing to renew from a management standpoint.
During covid when furloughs involving airlines with E3s were on the cards, WARN letters went out in reverse seniority order irrespective of being an Aussie or local.
Today we've got Spirit and Mesa announcing furloughs, and hopefully the above holds true. Fingers crossed that the peeps there have a soft landing either way.
During covid when furloughs involving airlines with E3s were on the cards, WARN letters went out in reverse seniority order irrespective of being an Aussie or local.
Today we've got Spirit and Mesa announcing furloughs, and hopefully the above holds true. Fingers crossed that the peeps there have a soft landing either way.