Rex and the Media Release
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in the article it said:
"The Rex scheme comes as the federal Government is under increasing pressure to help address the high cost of pilot training by including it in the Higher Education Contribution Scheme."
anyone have info on how the HECS part is progressing? I'd be very happy if they move it to HECS
"The Rex scheme comes as the federal Government is under increasing pressure to help address the high cost of pilot training by including it in the Higher Education Contribution Scheme."
anyone have info on how the HECS part is progressing? I'd be very happy if they move it to HECS
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anyone have info on how the HECS part is progressing? I'd be very happy if they move it to HECS
If HECS was available you would get every man and his dog signing up for flight training even if they have no desire to fly for a living. Even though it isn't ethical human nature means some will abuse the system to maybe just get a PPL and then drop out.
The financial cost to the government would be too high and it still would not have addressed the reasons why young people don't see a future in aviation these days with the poor T & C compared to many other industries.
Not many people realise this but if you use HECS to get a degree and then go overseas to work, you won't have to pay it off. I will have to check but I am pretty sure that after seven years the debt is written off all together. Something to think about.
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i'm quite sure ur HECS debt is there for life until u either pay it off, or reach retirement age, and the going overseas part applies to any occupations so no reason to discriminate pilots...
HECS would automatically mean its a higher education course, so it'll be independant of airlines i'd imagine, all they really have to do is jack up the ENTER score, or the equivalents in other states, and put in some screening procedure....just think about it, how much glamour might be put back into the industry if it required 99.50 ENTER
realistically i think somewhere around 94-95 ENTER would be a good range, people above this score most likely would end up doing things like engineering/commerce/law/med, so it'll leave those who are really interested, the could also impose higher medical minimums.....i mean the general teenager in aus is quite unfit as far as i've seen
i'm currently studying aviation at RMIT, the course is about airline and airport management, i'd love to do the flying stream instead but i can't afford the 50-60k, so if they put the course on HECS.....i'll be the first to bribe my course coordinator but jokes aside, i never understood why the flying stream is the only university bachelor degree in australia that cannot be put on HECS, its pure discrimination 
HECS would automatically mean its a higher education course, so it'll be independant of airlines i'd imagine, all they really have to do is jack up the ENTER score, or the equivalents in other states, and put in some screening procedure....just think about it, how much glamour might be put back into the industry if it required 99.50 ENTER
realistically i think somewhere around 94-95 ENTER would be a good range, people above this score most likely would end up doing things like engineering/commerce/law/med, so it'll leave those who are really interested, the could also impose higher medical minimums.....i mean the general teenager in aus is quite unfit as far as i've seen
i'm currently studying aviation at RMIT, the course is about airline and airport management, i'd love to do the flying stream instead but i can't afford the 50-60k, so if they put the course on HECS.....i'll be the first to bribe my course coordinator
but jokes aside, i never understood why the flying stream is the only university bachelor degree in australia that cannot be put on HECS, its pure discrimination
The problem as I see it is that to get HECS, you have to be accepted into a tertiary education institution. Whilst I know the pre-requisites to get a BA in basket weaving or whetever might not be high (but then, nor are the costs compared to flying training) at least it takes SOME minimum standard to be accepted, whilst anyone can waltz into a flying school.
HECS or HELP?
I'm confused. I thought that the Higher Education Loan Programme (HELP) replaced the Higher Education Contribution Scheme (HECS) on 1 January 2005? 
It seems to me that if the government is looking at providing some support to overcome the present pilot shortage, then flying training could possibly come under HELP. The ATO publishes a guide on repaying a HELP debt, and it includes information that FEE-HELP provides students with a loan to cover up to the full amount of their tuition fees to a limit of $80,000, and $100,000 for dentistry, medicine or veterinary science courses. These limits are indexed each year. Seems to me that the cost of becoming fully qualified as a professional pilot would be in the $80K to $100K range, so why not use the scheme for this purpose?
As far as I understand it, HELP can attract a 10% bonus for voluntary repayments, so under those circumstances, the full HELP debt may not be repayable. Also, it seems you can use salary packaging for voluntary repayments of HELP debt.
As far as going overseas to avoid repayment of the debt, well I'm not so sure about that. HELP debt is indexed if it remains unpaid! So even if the offshore (foreign) income is exempt, the HELP debt doesn't just disappear. The HELP account is maintained and is indexed every year until the debt is paid off. Index rate as at 1 June 2007 was 3.4%, so beware!
The only situations that I can see where HELP debt gets 'written off' is: a) if you've repaid it in full, OR b) you die!
So, if it's a) then you're being treated no differently than say, a dentistry, medicine or veterinary science student with respect to your obligation to repay the fee assistance that you've been provided with by the governement under HELP (or HECS??), and if it's b) then it's really not going to be a problem for you, is it?
It seems to me that if the government is looking at providing some support to overcome the present pilot shortage, then flying training could possibly come under HELP. The ATO publishes a guide on repaying a HELP debt, and it includes information that FEE-HELP provides students with a loan to cover up to the full amount of their tuition fees to a limit of $80,000, and $100,000 for dentistry, medicine or veterinary science courses. These limits are indexed each year. Seems to me that the cost of becoming fully qualified as a professional pilot would be in the $80K to $100K range, so why not use the scheme for this purpose?
As far as I understand it, HELP can attract a 10% bonus for voluntary repayments, so under those circumstances, the full HELP debt may not be repayable. Also, it seems you can use salary packaging for voluntary repayments of HELP debt.
As far as going overseas to avoid repayment of the debt, well I'm not so sure about that. HELP debt is indexed if it remains unpaid! So even if the offshore (foreign) income is exempt, the HELP debt doesn't just disappear. The HELP account is maintained and is indexed every year until the debt is paid off. Index rate as at 1 June 2007 was 3.4%, so beware!
The only situations that I can see where HELP debt gets 'written off' is: a) if you've repaid it in full, OR b) you die!
So, if it's a) then you're being treated no differently than say, a dentistry, medicine or veterinary science student with respect to your obligation to repay the fee assistance that you've been provided with by the governement under HELP (or HECS??), and if it's b) then it's really not going to be a problem for you, is it?
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Returning to the original subject! The column below is reproduced with the author's kind permission. And I can assure fellow Ppruners that she occasionally reads these pages!
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The actual aviation flying stream at RMIT and Swinburne here in Melbourne both contain 1.5 years of flying up to CPL/ATPL(subjects) and 1.5 years of the airline/airport management course. While the requirement isn't anything flashy, around 80, its still not a grade the average kid walks out with. I'm quite sure getting 80 places you at 80 percentile of the year's high school graduates. As for course prices, full fee courses are in the range of 10-30k/year, so a simple 3 year course could already cost 60k, not that much less than the flying.
The actual ENTER required works off basically a supply and demand type situation, so the ENTER will keep going up after a course is established to balance the positions available and the amount of people wanting to join. HECS/HELP, personally i didn't even read what the differences were, i only know under the new system u can only be on government support for a maximum of 7 years full time study, as i'm aware the 2 are basically the same except the maximum. I'm sure if the course is put under HECS/HELPS there will be a screening process, after all tertiary education under HECS/HELP is a priviliage to those who study hard and/or are very smart.
I've only completed PPL myself due to cost, but during my training i've already met some enthusiasts that for some reason weren't actually able to fly. I'm sure a good screening process coupled with decent entry requirements would make the program work really well. I'll email my course coordinator from RMIT when i find all the info about this proposed change and see if he knows when or the likelyhood of it passing through.
For all those in a similar situation as me, PRAY HARD, even if you're not religous
p.s sorry for the derail again, i didn't want to start a new topic since it was mentioned here >_<
The actual ENTER required works off basically a supply and demand type situation, so the ENTER will keep going up after a course is established to balance the positions available and the amount of people wanting to join. HECS/HELP, personally i didn't even read what the differences were, i only know under the new system u can only be on government support for a maximum of 7 years full time study, as i'm aware the 2 are basically the same except the maximum. I'm sure if the course is put under HECS/HELPS there will be a screening process, after all tertiary education under HECS/HELP is a priviliage to those who study hard and/or are very smart.
I've only completed PPL myself due to cost, but during my training i've already met some enthusiasts that for some reason weren't actually able to fly. I'm sure a good screening process coupled with decent entry requirements would make the program work really well. I'll email my course coordinator from RMIT when i find all the info about this proposed change and see if he knows when or the likelyhood of it passing through.
For all those in a similar situation as me, PRAY HARD, even if you're not religous
p.s sorry for the derail again, i didn't want to start a new topic since it was mentioned here >_<
Pinky,
Angela Goode's article is a start, but like most journalistic pieces falls short on some facts.
If you do indeed read these pages Ms Goode, consider this.
Jim Davis stated that 1800 pilots will be required Australia wide, not just by REX.
Putting aside the inability of the company to contact all the passengers concerned, the CSO at the counter was correct that the reason for these delays, are lack of pilots.
What Ellora Sattar didn't tell you was that the 50 pilots under training will probably not even make up for the expected attrition!
What Ellora Sattar didn't tell you was that after these new pilots are trained, there will be very few suitable candidates left in the wider community to follow them!
What Jim Davis hasn't told you is the real reason young Australians have abandoned the profession. Make no mistake, it's always been expensive!
If you do read these forums Ms Goode, then you need to dig a little deeper than to simply repeat company statements. This crisis is real and it will get much much worse.
Your unfortunate experience and those of your fellow passengers at Mt Gambier will continue to repeat acrosss the REX network. I agree with you that REX owes it's rural passengers more respect. They also owe the travelling public the truth as to why the industry is now facing this crisis.
Angela Goode's article is a start, but like most journalistic pieces falls short on some facts.
If you do indeed read these pages Ms Goode, consider this.
Jim Davis stated that 1800 pilots will be required Australia wide, not just by REX.
Putting aside the inability of the company to contact all the passengers concerned, the CSO at the counter was correct that the reason for these delays, are lack of pilots.
What Ellora Sattar didn't tell you was that the 50 pilots under training will probably not even make up for the expected attrition!
What Ellora Sattar didn't tell you was that after these new pilots are trained, there will be very few suitable candidates left in the wider community to follow them!
What Jim Davis hasn't told you is the real reason young Australians have abandoned the profession. Make no mistake, it's always been expensive!
If you do read these forums Ms Goode, then you need to dig a little deeper than to simply repeat company statements. This crisis is real and it will get much much worse.
Your unfortunate experience and those of your fellow passengers at Mt Gambier will continue to repeat acrosss the REX network. I agree with you that REX owes it's rural passengers more respect. They also owe the travelling public the truth as to why the industry is now facing this crisis.
3 Months eh DUXNUTZ!
Things really have changed. Seriously though, if you have at least 500 multi and a couple of thousand total, and I'm assuming you don't have 2 heads, then go straight to the majors.
If you don't meet the above criteria, be patient, they can only train so many at a time.
That is untill all the check and trainers have left!
Things really have changed. Seriously though, if you have at least 500 multi and a couple of thousand total, and I'm assuming you don't have 2 heads, then go straight to the majors.
If you don't meet the above criteria, be patient, they can only train so many at a time.
That is untill all the check and trainers have left!
Pinky............
A look at the reference in post #2 suggests that HECS was referred to as part of the
which was:
Media Release
9 October 2007
REX WARNS OF LOOMING CATASTROPHIC SHORTAGE OF PILOTS IN AUSTRALIA
The 'respect' that Angela suggests that Rex pay its customers (and shouldn't it be ALL of them, including internal customers = crews) includes, at the very least, ensuring that the business is properly staffed so that flights aren't cancelled due to crew shortages. It also includes a decent reward system (= T&Cs).
Training pilots to attempt to ensure that supply meets demand is part of the current dilemma. Hence the suggestions of whether that training could/would come under HECS.
Whether such a scheme is workable OR is an effective long-term solution is another matter. Pay and conditions also come into the argument, as alluded to by Keg at post #4, who argued against the proposition suggested by Rex that the $80K cost of training was the main reason there aren't enough commercial pilots. Keg hit the nail on the head with:
And he's spot on!
Angela's article states that Rex with its monoploy owes its rural passengers a great deal more respect than they are currently getting. Agree. Rex also owes it's crews a great deal more respect than they seem to be getting, and that respect includes reasonable terms and conditions to help pay-off the high entry-costs that nearly every professional pilot incurs in getting into the industry.
A look at the reference in post #2 suggests that HECS was referred to as part of the
original subject
Media Release
9 October 2007
REX WARNS OF LOOMING CATASTROPHIC SHORTAGE OF PILOTS IN AUSTRALIA
The 'respect' that Angela suggests that Rex pay its customers (and shouldn't it be ALL of them, including internal customers = crews) includes, at the very least, ensuring that the business is properly staffed so that flights aren't cancelled due to crew shortages. It also includes a decent reward system (= T&Cs).
Training pilots to attempt to ensure that supply meets demand is part of the current dilemma. Hence the suggestions of whether that training could/would come under HECS.
Whether such a scheme is workable OR is an effective long-term solution is another matter. Pay and conditions also come into the argument, as alluded to by Keg at post #4, who argued against the proposition suggested by Rex that the $80K cost of training was the main reason there aren't enough commercial pilots. Keg hit the nail on the head with:
No it's not. It's the crap rates of pay that you and your ilk offer people who need to pay off that $80K that is the reason
Angela's article states that Rex with its monoploy owes its rural passengers a great deal more respect than they are currently getting. Agree. Rex also owes it's crews a great deal more respect than they seem to be getting, and that respect includes reasonable terms and conditions to help pay-off the high entry-costs that nearly every professional pilot incurs in getting into the industry.
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Facts on some cadetships
It's worth reading Paul Phelan's article in the Oct/Nov issue of Aviation Business magazine. As usual Paul gives us the facts. And the $80,000 figure is not all of it nor is there any certainty of an airline job at the end of the five years. It's mainly qantas schemes but they seem to have got the govt to pay money towards it, and are planning to have GA and/or the regionals provide the flying experience. All at no cost to qantas, and with no commitment from qantas to provide jobs at the end of it. Other uni's are trying to get similar achemes going.
An important point is that the HELP fees are only available to those who have passed the interview. This will prevent another flood of trainees who will undermine T&C's in regionals like they did in GA.
An important point is that the HELP fees are only available to those who have passed the interview. This will prevent another flood of trainees who will undermine T&C's in regionals like they did in GA.
Last edited by bushy; 29th Oct 2007 at 07:42. Reason: addition
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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Suiya; Fair call. Just thought that the thread was drifting somewhat!
Just thought that the thread was drifting somewhat!
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Rex application Part 2
Just wondering if anyone has been contacted (Apart from the autoreply) after they sent a copy of there Hsc results in?
Has anyone got any news/press release/company statement/rumour regarding this cadetship? it seems to have stopped in its tracks!!! Maybe they have found some pilots from somewhere???
TOJP.
Has anyone got any news/press release/company statement/rumour regarding this cadetship? it seems to have stopped in its tracks!!! Maybe they have found some pilots from somewhere???
TOJP.
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Apparently some of the candidates who have AUSTRALIAN flying experience will get called for an interview.
I got a call from REX today and the HR was about to invite me for an interview. Never thought that during the call she noticed my PPL is a Canadian PPL and I was told to wait for further notice.
Good luck to those who will be having interviews soon.
I got a call from REX today and the HR was about to invite me for an interview. Never thought that during the call she noticed my PPL is a Canadian PPL and I was told to wait for further notice.
Good luck to those who will be having interviews soon.