Procedural service question
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Procedural service question
At an airfield in uncontrolled airspace, with one aircraft holding ready for departure and one conducting a non-precision approach, can you release the aircraft on the ground when you don't have the approaching aircraft in sight? (Both aircraft on a procedural service)
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No reason why not, provided the projected flight paths don't cross.
For example - aircraft on an NDB approach (gone Beacon outbound) where the beacon is either on the airfield or on the approach. Departures could be released provided they are going straight ahead until vertical separation exists between themselves and the missed approach level, beyond which they can resume own navigation.
There wil normally be a point on the approach beyond which releases are not authorised - Base turn complete, 5 or 6 miles or similar.
For example - aircraft on an NDB approach (gone Beacon outbound) where the beacon is either on the airfield or on the approach. Departures could be released provided they are going straight ahead until vertical separation exists between themselves and the missed approach level, beyond which they can resume own navigation.
There wil normally be a point on the approach beyond which releases are not authorised - Base turn complete, 5 or 6 miles or similar.
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Beacon Separation
As an old and bold procedural controller my technique is: Get twr to line up the departure. As soon as the beacon traffic calls beacon outbound wait 30 seconds, then release the departure climbing unrestricted straight ahead. Get it on frequency early, as soon as it is 1000 above the beacon traffic turn it on track.
This works provided the beacon traffic has not called commencing base/ procedure turn.
If in doubt keep the beacon traffic going out bound until you have the level swop provided the sector altitude allows!
Satisfies all of the necessary separation standards!
Ah, the days of no radar! 😁
This works provided the beacon traffic has not called commencing base/ procedure turn.
If in doubt keep the beacon traffic going out bound until you have the level swop provided the sector altitude allows!
Satisfies all of the necessary separation standards!
Ah, the days of no radar! 😁
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DOC 4444 5.7 "Separation of departing aircraft from arriving aircraft"
That's the basics, may differ a little from country to country.
Still doing procedurel seperation here if RADAR looses power.
That's the basics, may differ a little from country to country.
Still doing procedurel seperation here if RADAR looses power.
That's the basics, may differ a little from country to country.
At an airfield in uncontrolled airspace,
(Both aircraft on a procedural service)
Uncontrolled get FIS where possible.
Are you mixing up non-radar with FIS?
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Still airfields in the UK providing ATC in uncontrolled airspace. Historic oddity is all I can say.
The answer to the original question is that, in the absence of any local procedures/deemed separations, the departure cannot be released until the contoller has the beacon traffic in sight and can fulfill the reqirements for reduced separation in the vicinity of an ATCO.
Chilli monster and Running Dog proffer solutions which could be argued as geographical separations - provided they keep to the constant or increasing criteria - but they're not provable under the basic procedures in the Boys book of Air Traffic pt 1.
Then again, back in the year dot, the first separation I was ever taught (at Manchester) was "go on, they'll never hit each other". Ah, nostalgia!
The answer to the original question is that, in the absence of any local procedures/deemed separations, the departure cannot be released until the contoller has the beacon traffic in sight and can fulfill the reqirements for reduced separation in the vicinity of an ATCO.
Chilli monster and Running Dog proffer solutions which could be argued as geographical separations - provided they keep to the constant or increasing criteria - but they're not provable under the basic procedures in the Boys book of Air Traffic pt 1.
Then again, back in the year dot, the first separation I was ever taught (at Manchester) was "go on, they'll never hit each other". Ah, nostalgia!
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Not quite right Dun in my opinion. It is covered by the regulations.
If the beacon is on the airfield.
Line the departing a/c up and make sure that they have a more than a reasonable rate of climb.
As soon as the aircraft on the approach has crossed the beacon outbound, release the departure aircraft off the same runway with a straight ahead climb.
You now have "reciprocal tracks on the opposite sides of a beacon".
There is now a short period of time to get vertical separation prior to the arriving aircraft turning inbound on the approach.
If the beacon is on the airfield.
Line the departing a/c up and make sure that they have a more than a reasonable rate of climb.
As soon as the aircraft on the approach has crossed the beacon outbound, release the departure aircraft off the same runway with a straight ahead climb.
You now have "reciprocal tracks on the opposite sides of a beacon".
There is now a short period of time to get vertical separation prior to the arriving aircraft turning inbound on the approach.
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Or on a day with good weather, depart him VFR and clear him IFR once he's seperated from inbounds (on RADAR or by any other means). It's a matter of choosing your words carefully before you do it, and let the pilot know what it implies, besides reducing a delay. Don't suggest it though.
Or still on a day with good weather the "own seperation" can be used if one requests it, and the other accepts. With carefull wording you can imply that the possibility is there and have the departure request it.
Or still on a day with good weather the "own seperation" can be used if one requests it, and the other accepts. With carefull wording you can imply that the possibility is there and have the departure request it.
Procedural service question
Usually you can release a departure provided it climbs in a segment separated by at least 45 degrees from the inbound aircraft up until the arrival reaches the final approach fix. Clear the departure on track once you have vertical separation.
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OR. . . . . . .
If bandboxed Twr and App services are being applied the controller maybe applying reduced separation in the vicinity of an aerodrome. When you are observed overhead going outbound and the departure is going the other direction - and no risk of collision is present?!?!
If bandboxed Twr and App services are being applied the controller maybe applying reduced separation in the vicinity of an aerodrome. When you are observed overhead going outbound and the departure is going the other direction - and no risk of collision is present?!?!
