Typhoon Production

[smartman]

I've heard from a reliable source that BWOS are having problems manufacturing foreplanes to an acceptable aerodynamic standard for their prized Eurofighters, and that the build line has come to a grinding halt.
The foreplanes are manufactured by Diffusion Bonding sheets of titanium together, and then Superplastic forming them to the finished shape ------ however, my source tells me that the production foreplanes are being manufactured a country mile out of tolerance and are SCRAP..... at circa 100K a shot. I believe the programme is in serious jeapordy, and unless a fix can be achieved imminently, there is grave concern as to the future of the aircrarft ------ any comments/views.

[Jackonicko]

Has there been any change to the foreplane design since the pre-production aircraft? Because there didn't seem to be a problem with those (not like those fin skins).

I think what they fit above the port foreplane is more of a problem....

[ORAC]

"A 6 axis system recently installed at BAE SYSTEMS in Samlesbury, UK is used for fully automated production inspection of complex titanium alloy parts made by superplastic forming and diffusion bonding (SPFDB).........in common with all recent ...systems, the software operates under Windows 2000™."

[smartman]

Jacko

I appreciate your comments, but I think you should be aware that there is nothing fundamentaly wrong with the design of the foreplanes. However due to the manufacturing tolerances now imposed on production foreplanes (through demands of excellence?) I understand that there is an issue in terms of the repeatability of the process......I don't understand your comment with regard to what is fitted above the foreplanes....please can you elaborate.......

Does all this add to the delay in delivery to the RAF?

[Jackonicko]

The process was clearly repeatable enough to produce foreplanes for the prototypes and pre-production aircraft. Why do foreplanes for production jets need to be built to such tighter tolerances? Why aren't prototype type foreplanes good enough?

Who does make the foreplanes, come to that?

What's above the foreplane? Pirate.

[smartman]

I think it's something to do with protos having a life of c800FH, against 6500 for production versions. The point I'm trying to make (probably not very well) is that the foreplane process is v expensive - and if the problem is more than just rumour, are there programme implications that warrant an airing?

Your Pirate/Foreplane assessment is wholly inaccurate; the points I put to you in my private message still hold good.

[Jackonicko]

BAE needs to do some work convincing otherwise well informed folk about Pirate, then, 'cos it's still being held up as being something that's way below what was expected - even if it may not be that far below a baseline spec. I accept that Captor and DASS will be up to standard when required, because everyone's saying that. But no-one ever seems convinced about the IRST and I keep hearing that same rumour, even though the radar and DASS rumours have vanished.

Good point about relative lives of prototypes vice the production aeroplanes, though I don't quite see why these foreplanes should last 10% less long than those for production aircraft. Ignorance, eh? ;)

Who does make the damned things, anyway?

[John Farley]

Jacko

I know nothing about the way the pre-production foreplanes were manufactured but to introduce SPFDB at the production stage to eliminate previously machined components and so save on cost and weight is quite common in the industry.

I would think there was a chance that this is the situation here.

[Jackonicko]

Thanks JF! (How much would they want to save weight that far from the CG/CL, though? Wouldn't a big change necessitate changes to the FCS software orr am I talking 8ollock$ again?)

[smartman]

JF

Not the case for EF though - SPFDB was used for all DA, including those of EAP

[Jackonicko]

So why the need for so much closer tolerances? Why does this make such a difference to life?