Ricin linked to plot to poison British Military Bases

[Boy_From_Brazil]

Nice to know what the 'asylum seekers' were really over in the UK for:-

Excerpt from New York Times 24 January 03

— Islamic militants arrested in Britain this month may have been plotting to lace the food supply on at least one British military base with the poison ricin, according to American government officials. The revelations raised concerns in Britain and the United States about the security of allied forces as war preparations continue. American officials said they had received intelligence reports showing that the British authorities suspect that a group of militants arrested there in a series of raids may have been
trying to gain access to the food supply on at least one military base in the United Kingdom. British officials found traces of ricin in a London apartment where the first arrests were made in the
case. "It's a very live theory," said one American law enforcement official familiar with the information from the British. American officials said the reports showed that one of the suspects worked for a food
preparation company and had been in contact with individuals who worked on at least one British military base.

The United States officials said they did not know the identity of the suspect. They said they also did not know which British military base or bases might have been targets of the plot. Officials cautioned that
the assessment is a working theory among British investigators, and that conclusive evidence had not
yet been obtained.
"There are some investigators who believe the ricin was being developed to poison British troops," an
American official said. "But we still have found no direct evidence between the ricin discovery and that kind of plot."
A spokesman for the British Home Office declined to comment on the reports.
But the potential threat has clearly heightened concern in Britain, where Prime Minister Tony Blair recently ordered an increase in the number of troops being deployed to the Middle East in preparation to join the United States if it uses force against Iraq.
Few details of the British investigation have so far been made public, but the possibility that the plotters were planning to poison British troops helps to explain why the British authorities have been moving
so aggressively on the case in recent weeks.


Look at the catering contractors a bit more carefully......

BFB

[Jackonicko]

To try to infer that all asylum seekers (or even all asylum seekers from that part of the world) are terrorists, or even that they are sympathetic to terrorism is a disgraceful, racist slur. What a pity that you began an otherwise thought provoking post with such unintelligent, offensive nonsense.

[A Civilian]

Does that mean dare I say it "No more curry's" :eek:

[Captain Gadget]

BFB

I agree with Jacko.

In my humble opinion: while a successful poisoning of British military personnel (or for that matter civilians) might have been considered a success by the plotters - if there was indeed such a plot and if the suspects are guilty...

...dragging our democracy down by encouraging supposedly democratic free-thinkers to express racist or xenophobic sentiments could be considered at least a partial victory by those very extremists who are at present ranged against our interests: and this applies whether or not there was a poisoning plot and whether or not these particular suspects are guilty.

Generalisations are always dangerous...:D

[solotk]

Excerpt from New York Times 24 January 03

— Islamic militants arrested in Britain this month may have been plotting to lace the food supply on at least one British military base with the poison ricin, according to American government officials



BOLLOX. Absolute and utter BOLLOX. "according to American Government officials" In other words, "We see some of your Limey service guys can think for themselves, and aren't buying into our latest land in Florida scheme, so let's have a little scare"

A spokesman for the British Home Office declined to comment on the reports

Hardly surprising really.

[keiysersaucy]

I dont see how refering to the asylum seekers who were arrested for the possesion of ricin, as asylum seekers,(because I thought that is what they were), can be racist? or am i missing something?

[Boy_From_Brazil]

Jackonicko

My post was not meant to be a slur against all asylum seekers. I agree that it could have been better worded.

However, I was referring to those suspects arrested during the Ricin police raid in North London. I understand, from a number of reasonably reliable sources, that at least two of the guys were asylum seekers. If this is not true, I stand corrected...........

[A Civilian]

On Tuesday 11th of sepetember having watched the two towers collasep on TV I went to my local newsagents to buy a paper and I told the owner about what had happened.

All he did was smile.

He's of pakastini or indian descent (ive never asked nor have I ever asked what religion if any he belives in). All I know is that ive never been back since.

Make of that what you will.

[Captain Sand Dune]

"All he did was smile. "

As opposed to the all-out celebrations here in the Sand Pit.

Wake up people.
:rolleyes:

[smartman]

Jacko

A touch sensitive surely?

[Vortexadminman]

Islamic militants arrested in Britain this month may have been plotting to lace the food supply on at least one British military base with the poison ricin, according to American government officials

Surely thats a bit of a non starter even they know we have chefs to do that already:)

[Tigs2]

A Civilian

"All he did was smile. "

Are you sure he actually even new what you were talking about? After all your dialouge was a little bit outside the normal"Daily mirror please". He probably did not have a scooby about what you were talking about, in which case in Pakistan and India, it is customary to Smile:):)

[zalt]

Sounds like more tenuous hype. Most of the UK tabloids carried a 'terror threat to London' story this am because a London A-Z was found in the same building in Italy as some explosives (oh and 'plans of NATO based in Italy').

Did hear that Police snipers were trailing Tony Blair with orders to shoot to kill. The newreader then added rather too hastily... 'any suicide bombers'.

[katpad]

Captain Sand Dune is right - we have the opportunity now to wake up to the terrorist threat and face the reality that not all the people coming into our country intend to contribute to our society. There is some evidence that the foot soldiers of the likes of Bin Ladin are mixing with the economic migrants we call asylum seekers. It is not racist to strive to protect our culture and way of life from such people and Jackonico should recognise the difference between patriotism and racism. I am proud that I am a citizen of this country and I am happy to help anybody who needs help to escape from the sort of regime I recently "enjoyed" in the heartland of the muslim religion but I am not about to welcome anyone who wants to either destroy our society, terrorise our community or change our way of life. It is high time that we stopped pussyfooting around being politically correct and protected our way of life whilst we still have something worth protecting.

[SPIT]

This also proves that the American press as well as our press have some right A******es working for them;) :D

[Out Of Trim]

Well said Katpad,

Jacko

I think you should, calm down and realise that not all these so called asylum seekers are here as genuine refugees or even economic migrants. It would appear that many North African (asylum seekers) seem to be here for another purpose.

Indeed they seem to have links with Al Qaeda and hail from Algeria and Morocco; It doesn't take much thinking to wonder what they might be trying to achieve.

The current immigration policy is failing terribly as all can see. Therefore, we need to seriously address the issue of just who we are letting into the UK.

:rolleyes:

[Jackonicko]

Personally I'd rather have an open-minded economic migrant, especially if he's willing to integrate, and to live and let live, whether he be yellow, brown, black or any other colour, than racist bigots who were born and bred in the garden of England. Especially if he's educated enough to be able to spell Al Qaeda.

We are a mongrel society, and successive waves of immigrants (from the Romans onwards) have enriched our nation and have contributed to the culture and way of life which some seem to think are in such grave danger. Katpad should perhaps consider the difference between patriotism (pride in our great country) and mere xenophobic jingoism (hatred of everyone else's).

The way in which this issue has become hijacked by the pond-life who routinely crawl out from under their stones to decry immigration at any excuse is most depressing. Anyone seriously suggesting that these terrorist suspects (one of whom has already been branded as a murderer by Presidente Tony without benefit of a trial) are anything other than a tiny minority of North African immigrants is either deluded or mischievous.

The fact that someone supports Al Qaeda is obviously relevant to this debate. The fact that someone is a terrorist is relevant. Their skin colour, religion, race, country of origin and whether or not they are 'a genuine asylum seeker' a refugee or an economic migrant is not, and to bring it up (in what is still sometimes an intolerant society) is unhelpful and encourages racism.

I'm far more worried by Blair, whose instincts seem to be increasingly undemocratic. Was I alone in being half horrified and half amused when smirked at that heckler (who was exercising the right of free speech which we all hold dear) while offering some dodgy platitude about "not being able to stand up and speak in public meetings in Iraq" even as burly party minders manhandled the said miscreant from the hall. I hope the young heckler thinks to sue them for common assault.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It strikes me that PIRA were are highly effective, resilient terrorist organisation that we faced, we endured and we fought - effectively. Al Qaeda have yet to hold a candle to PIRA.

I have confidence in the UK security forces that defended us against PIRA.

More power to their elbow. And thank-you.

WWW

[Out Of Trim]

I'm not a racist bigot; and indeed I am willing to accept any person of any colour or creed into my community if they are willing to integrate.

However, I am not willing to just roll over and accept all asylum seekers at face value. Therefore I expect the authorities to rigorously check these people out before they disappear into the woodwork.

Surely this is only good common sense!

From the BBC:-

Al-Qaeda 'still at large' in UK


Sir John said UK police were continuing operations

Terrorists linked to al-Qaeda remain in Britain and are using established terror groups, according to the UK's most senior police chief.

Sir John Stevens, head of the Metropolitan force told Sky News a large number of people were being watched and "a number" had still to be arrested.

Asked if al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden and other key figures were directing operations in Britain, he said: "I think there's some of that in terms of what is happening worldwide.

"But I think, very cleverly, what Bin Laden and others have done is actually lock into established terrorist groups to see if they can actually use their potential."

Sir John: the public must be vigilant

He went on: "We know that there's certain links with al-Qaeda and, of course, the link in with north Africa is proven with other groups as well."

The commissioner said it was not known whether weapons of mass destruction were falling in to the hands of terrorists from rogue states.

He warned: "We know these people are quite prepared to give their lives, they are extremely ruthless and they are prepared to use weapons which perhaps people who have been involved in domestic terrorism have not been prepared to use, so therefore there is a need for us to up our game and we are doing that."

Heightened fears

Sir John's message comes after police operations in north London, where officers discovered traces of the deadly poison ricin, and in Manchester where officer Stephen Oake was stabbed to death during an anti-terrorist operation.

Kamel Bourgass, 27 has been remanded in custody charged with the murder.

Mr Bourgass was also charged with the attempted murders of four other officers.

Heightened security

Home Secretary David Blunkett told BBC Radio 4 that asylum seekers should not be singled out for criticism in discussions about anti-terror measures.

He acknowledged the need to improve security.

"I have authorised the security and intelligence service and our anti-terrorism branch to take whatever steps are necessary, controversial or otherwise, without fear or favour to take action to protect us, he told the BBC.

Speaking on The World This Weekend, he said the asylum system was not in a "state of meltdown" and rejected calls for Britain to stop accepting asylum seekers.

He said he could not stop Iraqis from claiming asylum given the present circumstances.

But shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin described immigration controls as a "chaotic shambles" saying measures needed to be improved to screen out the minority of asylum seekers who posed a threat.

"There are some who are intent on blowing us up, which is a pretty dreadful act," he told the programme.

Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Simon Hughes warned against confusing the asylum issue with anti-terrorism.

"Terrorism is a separate issue and that's to do with surveillance and immigration controls," he told ITV's Jonathan Dimbleby programme.

[smartman]

Jacko,

I, probably like yourself, was unashamedly born and bred in the garden of England. That does not tar me in any way, as you somewhat offensively imply, as a potential racist or bigot. Observation of my past and present personal circumstances would reveal quite the opposite.

I interprete Katpad and OOT's views as being insistent that all 'asylum seekers' should be positively vetted before being accepted into our society. Given the current threat to our way of life, is that not a wise and essential precaution? And am I wrong in saying that ANY foreigner (trust that's not also becoming a non-PC word these days) seeking to live permanently in the UK, economic or otherwise, has to be compliant with strict immigration rules?

None of this is either racist or bigotted - it's simply sticking to the club membership rules (which, as an aside, and for reasons other than those we're presently discussing, I believe should be tightened up).

Katpad and OOT make commonsense -----------

[Captain Sand Dune]

A few things worth considering here.
Until recently many "Western" countries had very liberal attitudes
and laws regarding asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. I, for
one, consider these laws were made with noble aims. I'm not
saying they are perfect, but they were made in the right spirit.
These laws can but only have made it easier for terrorists to
gain entry to prospective "target" countries. The washup
post-September 11 attests to this. How many reports concerning
gentlemen of "North African origin" and their escapades in the UK
and continental Europe have we seen recently?
Now contrast this with those countries that our terrorist friends
come from and ask yourselves what is involved to visit them.
No prizes for guessing where I'm writing this little diatribe
from, and no prizes for guessing how their immigration policies
contrast with those of "Western" countries.
Let me put it to you, dear readers, that our terrorist guests
regard "Western" attitudes and policies regarding asylum seekers
and illegal immigrants with contempt and weaknesses to be
exploited.
Let me also put it to you that however distasteful any recent
policy changes made by "Western" governments may be
(finger printing by the US, detention of illegal immigrants
in Australia, raiding of mosques in the UK), they are far
outweighed by the obligation those governments have to protect
their legitimate citizens.
In my humble opinion, WWIII started on the 11th of September 2001.
The enemy in this war do not wear uniforms or march under a
particular countries' flag, and have not demonstrated any
willingness to conform to any conventions or "norms" that
"Western" countries hold dear.
This situation (NOT started by the "Western" world) has gone beyond the rights of asylum seekers and illegal immigrants.

[katpad]

Captain Sand Dune shares an insight that is obviously gained from first hand experience in the home territory that currently poses such a threat to the West. We must wake up and realise that our society is under attack from the fundamentalists who are not prepared to co-exist with other religions. Whilst we apparently welcome a multi-cultural society they do not and if you visited their home country you would be well advised to leave your bible at home and not bother looking for your Christian place of worship or the pub. Whilst their way of life at home is not a problem to us it is their aim to dominate in other countries - numbers count and they are breeding like rabbits. Jacko might be happy to welcome open minded economic migrants but there are not too many of those in the numbers I have met. I have no wish to wake up one day to Sharir law and be flogged for drinking my favourite pint nor do I want to live with the corruption that thrives in their society. The only way to avoid that in our democracy is to limit the numbers entering.

[Smoketoomuch]

Jacko, your posts are usually measured and insightful, what's happened?

J - "successive waves of immigrants (from the Romans onwards) have enriched our nation" <<- I'm sure I don't need to point out that some of these 'immigrants' inc the Romans, have not always had the best interests of native Britons at heart. Immigration is neither good nor bad per se - it depends entirely on who is immigrating, and how many. Unfortunately our government has lost control of our borders - at any time this would be stupid, with today's security situation it is utter madness.

J - "Was I alone in being half horrified and half amused when smirked at that heckler" <<- I suspect you were alone yes. What was Blair to do, give him the mic and walk away? The heckler was being interviewed on the news within an hour. He had no complaints about his treatment, but he did waffle on with some of the most naive student politics I've heard for a good while.

Now is the the time for rational thought and resolute measures, even if they're unpopular to some, not knee-jerk reactions and wild insults such as 'pondlife' and 'racist bigot' - I see noone fitting that description here. Sadly it is just such reactions that have left our government paralysed and incapable of doing what just about every other country in the world manages better than us, ie controlling its borders. Who'd think we were an island?

[BlueWolf]

Jacko, I think that all anyone is suggesting is that we should vet wannbe immigrants and asylum seekers a little more closely in the light of recent events; and when in doubt, perhaps err a little more on the side of caution.

[Jackonicko]

Ok, apologies. Some of these posts did sound uncomfortably what racist bigots are saying.

And I do think that over-concentrating on asylum seekers is a mistale. Talk as much as you like about border controls - that's far less contentious and far less open to misinterpretation and misuse, and also covers the problem of people coming over as tourists.

But the real solution must be (by our actions) to prove that while we may be Saddam Hussein's enemy, we are not an enemy to Islam or to the wider Arab world. Removing the motivation for people to attack us will always be better than reacting and trying to stop attacks.

[Flatus Veteranus]

How can it possibly be "racist" to argue that, because the major terrorist threat to this country comes from an extreme Islamic organisation (Al Q'aeda), we should take particular care to screen immigrants from predominantly Islamic countries? I imagine we were pretty rough on arrivals from Germany in WW2 (in fact we interned them under the notrious "Regulation 18b"). It also seems obvious that immigration controls are porous to the extent of being farcical. Did not a gentleman who fought against us for the Taliban in Afghanistan apply for asylum here on the grounds that he faced persecution by the Northern Alliance? He was granted asylum , it said, and is at large. :confused:

[mutleyfour]

I agree, a tightening of the immigration rules do not surmount to racism.....just realism, after all it does appear to be the most heavily used means of entry by the terrorist at the moment.

I cant understand why we exhaust the security services and the police by tailing these people around the country waiting for some glimmer of evidence before arrests are made.

This is a war unlike any other we have fought so far, and I'm not on about the Gulf....I'm on about teams of men and women infiltrating this country as legitimate refugees in order to harm us westerners.....

Im not saying we should stop letting these people in, we need to vet them little more than we are presently...therefore we protect the nation, which will include those legitimate refugees and Asylum seekers.

[steamchicken]

As there are 100 million or thereabouts passenger movements by all means in and out of the UK annually, of which about 50,000 only are refugees, I don't think there is much point in being nastier to the poor and desperate. If you are a Saudi citizen and intending terrorist it would be much more sensible to enter the UK on a tourist visa, business visa, or student visa and disappear, living off Al'Qs doubtless sizeable financial resources. (much more generous by an order of magnitude than the wildly extravagant £40 per week accorded to those awaiting a decision on their claim for refugee status!) As all major Al Qaida ops appear to have been perpetrated by persons doing exactly this, the current hysteria's only effect IMHO would be to increase the circulation of a certain newspaper and the prospects for promotion within the Murdoch organisation of Ms Rebekah Wade.

BTW, has it occured to you (or anyone else) that the immigration service do indeed check names against a security watch list?

[edited for typo]

[Tourist]

As far as I am concerned, the thing which puts the "great" in Britain is the multicultural influx over thousands of years.
Without them we would still be just a cold shi@ty country on the outskirts of europe.
Long may it continue.
Oh my god!
I agree with what Jacko says!
Perhaps I should lie down. It'll pass. Then I can go back to disagreeing with him on principle again.

[A Civilian]

I keep thinking back to that AlQ attack in Kenya now if there ever was a soft target it was a hotel full of tourists yet the AlQ terrorists who attacked that hotel drove a truck into it, opened up with an AK then blew themselves up along with the hotel.

It would of been so much easier to simply do this at night and then run away yet a person made the concious decision to end his own life when he knew that there was no need for it.

Now if someone would willingly do this could they not take an aerosol can full of ricin down the tube and spray it everywhere?

A single man could do this and it doesn't have to be an asylum seeker it could be a born and bred UK citizen who wants to get closer to god and bring others with him.