HSBC and Degree's [Archive]

CAT3C AUTOLAND

18th Nov 2002, 14:38

Mr S,

As far as I know (don't quote me on this) but I am pretty sure that it is not a prerequsite requirement to have a degree to obtain the loan.

I went to see HSBC (I bank with them anyway) to find out more about the loan, and as far as they were concerned you had to show evidence that you had been accepted on a course etc etc therefore no degrees reuired. My reasons for seeing them was to ensure I could blag a few grand if I was to run out of money, the last thing I wanted was to get to the stage of embarking on the IR or something and finding out I was skint, even though I have planned my finances fairly carefully, like course fees plus 20% contingency.

One thing that I am not sure about is how they will assess you, in term of your eligibilty for a loan, as I believe it is unsecured. Personally for me, I was told a loan would not be a problem due to the fact I bank with them and had a very good credit rating.

Like I say, I am not 100% sure of the ins and outs, things may have changed since I went, it was around 12 months ago.

Cheers.

claudiucho

20th Nov 2002, 02:00

Hi everyone!

To anyone interested in asking for a loan in HSBC, i must say is a complete waste of time talking to them!!!!!!!

I'm an immmigrant from italy, don't have a house, no Degree (not needed though), and banking somewhere else.
The loan is secured, so no house no loan. And if you have a house it must have outstanding equity, enugh to cover the loan. The thing with the degree is not necesesary as long as you demostrate that this is what you really like.
Cutting it short, if you want a loan from them you have to think like them, they don't want to lose the money, and they want to make sure you can pay.
So to all those who thought could have their money, i'm sorry to disapoint you people!!!:rolleyes:

foghorn

20th Nov 2002, 08:22

AFAIK, it doesn't matter whether you have a degree or not - they just change the name of the loan from a 'Graduate Studies Loan' to a 'Professional Studies Loan' - however it is on similar terms.

The HSBC lent me £20,000 towards the modular course two years ago, without an face-to-face meeting or any real hassle - however I was on very good terms with them having banked with them for 12 years, mortgage with them so house available as security, etc. etc. The interest rate at 2% over the BoE base rate is virtually impossible to get elsewhere unless you are remortgaging property, and they are completely flexible with repayments.

Touch'n'oops

22nd Nov 2002, 08:42

I have taken a loan out with HSBC for 35000 Pounds.

They did not ask for any qualifications! But the fact is, I convinced my father to put his house up as security. This achieved a lower interest rate.
He didn't have problem with it. He said he had always seen my passion for flying and knew that I would make it. Or I'm in deep ****:D

HSBC also wanted confirmation from the flight school of my acceptance to the school.

Another area to pay attention to is when you draw down the cash. Delay this for as long as possible. It will save you quite a bit.

Good luck in finding that loan!

wolverhamptonlad

22nd Nov 2002, 12:12

claudiucho

Were you surprised????????
"....they don't want to lose the money, and they want to make sure you can pay." - That seems like common sense to me!! - They're hardly going to say "here's 40K - go and blow it, see if you can pay us back IF you get a job at the end of it"

Just say you were the bank - would you loan the money to someone with no security and who doesn't even bank with you???????:confused:

2WingsOnMyWagon

22nd Nov 2002, 13:48

1/ No I havnt got a degree or a house

2/ I Made my own portfolio and course outline, Rather than paying money to anyone else to do it. (this saved me a packet)

3/ Go to your local branch, if they dont know much about it then go to a large branch ( in your local city)

4/ I already had a PPL but the time taken over my portfolio payed dividends

HSBC Have been extremely helpfull to me, so id like to say a big THANK YOU!:D :D :D

2WingsOnMyWagon

22nd Nov 2002, 15:04

The loan to apply for is the profesional studies loan which is unsecured. My portfolio took alot of effort, it showed that I could be flexable with anything they had concerns about and that i had put lots of time in to get all the relevent information. They agreed to let me manage my own course as this saved loads of money and allowed me to work part time. I decided on distance learning, Hr. building in the U.S. and Skill tests in the UK (CPL/FI).
I initally took 20k over 10yrs, with the option of more loans at a later date, for example IR, MCC when the airline situation improves. Basicaly what I lacked in qualifications i made up for in determination, and i reakon thats what swung it. so what id say to you is DONT GIVE UP!!! and dont take NO for an answer.

Hope that answers your Q's:cool:

bow5

22nd Nov 2002, 16:04

What a load of nonsense some people talk!! :rolleyes:

The HSBC do a graduate loan for, wait for it, graduates. This loan is anything upto £10,000 at a preferential interest rate.

As 2WingsOnMyWagon says, they then do a Professional Studies Loan for people studying for specfied careers. These include Medicine, Law and Commercial Pilot, (again, mostly graduates).

I don't think it's a requirement to have a degree but you'll be lucky to get one without a degree and/or security. If you can get a loan, they do upto £15,000 unsecured but anything more than that will need securing.

Think about it, if you were the bank and a kid with some GCSE's and one A-Level comes in who doesn't bank with you and asks for £45,000, you'd drop kick them back out the door. Without a degree and no security you simply do not have the earnings potential to pay back a loan this size if everything goes t**s up.

I think someone needs a reality check!! :p

Take it easy,

bow5 ;)

2WingsOnMyWagon

22nd Nov 2002, 16:44

Like i said 20 grand over 10 yrs. Ill take that reality check..... Whats this a blue book and an FI rating. and if things go tits up its 240 pound a month so thats not a problem and if somthing should happen to me then the manditory life insurance covers that too. The reality is you try or you dont. Take your pick!

p.savage

23rd Nov 2002, 00:13

Bow, WISE UP.

I have checked reality. I have already spoken to the bank. They say that with my Father as quarantor there will be " no problem"

Thank you very much.

2WingsOnMyWagon

23rd Nov 2002, 11:18

Good luck with your training Paul.

Kefuddle_UK

23rd Nov 2002, 13:47

This is my understanding of the HSBC situation.

You do not need a degree. Even if you had a degree you need to either:

a) Provide some comprehensive and objetive evidence that you are likely to pass. That means a GAPAN assessment, a PPL, you name it.

b) Loads of security. If you have equity I would choose the Halifax Cash Reserve as it provides alot more flexibility...well that is what I chose anyway.

Talk to the good people at www.pilotassist.com. They will give some excellent advice before you give them a penny. This school is top of my list when I start ATPLs, very impressed with their approach. Anyway, basically it goes somethig like this:

1) Apply for a CDL (£8,000).
2) Use CDL to pay for PPL and extras (hours, etc).
3) Apply for an HSBC thingy wotsit.
4) Pay CDL with HSBC thingy wotsit before you you pay any interest on it.
5) Start training proper.
6) Complete training.
7) Start paying off HSBC some time after starting work (18 months? Can't remember)

Also, as was pointed out to me, what major long-haul airline is closely linked with HSBC and is probably the reason why HSBC supports pilot financing where others do not?

Answers on a postcard to:
I don't care just give me money
P/O BOX 999
NW1 8QT

2WingsOnMyWagon

23rd Nov 2002, 16:33

kefuddle

I agree with point A, i had no formal qualifications but I did have a PPL which i had payed for out of my own pocket.

Point B.... as ive already mentioned I had no security, but I only took 20k to begin with. Id expect you would need some if you wanted 45k.

I hear good things about pilotassist but thier course seems a bit expensive when you consider its modular also as far as i know they have yet to get anyone into the airlines. If im wrong or anyone can justify thier costs please correct me.

My only question is, what happens If you get your CDL and then get turned down by the HSBC?

As far as my research went HSBC are the only ones to offer this kind of loan, Natwest do a similar one but they dont count commercial pilot studies as a professional study!

:confused:

Kefuddle_UK

23rd Nov 2002, 22:35

As far as my investigations were concerned, HSBC will be less concerned about security if you are likely to pass. However, anything you put up would obviously be a bonus just don't offer it until you think you have to! In fact, I would say never offer any security until you have to.

Just a quick note on Pilot Assist. The 'price' includes PPL, hour building, night rating, etc as well as ATPL, CPL/IR. If you just do the bits you havn't got the price, you will find, is very competative. Just ask em for a brochure or download it from their site.

BTW, I have nothing to do with pilotassist, just thought I would point out what I have noticed.

The reason HSBC supports this type of loan for pilots is, as far as I can work out, the link between them, the Swire Group and Cathay Pacific. Swire Group being, or appearing to be, the holding company for both. Maybe somebody can clarify.

foghorn

23rd Nov 2002, 22:41

Swires are indeed the holding group for Cathay (and indirectly Drangonair), however they are not a significant investor in the HSBC, at least not when I last checked.

Kefuddle_UK

24th Nov 2002, 08:22

You appear to be right. The logo does bear some similarities and some of the directors do have a deep involvement in HSBC including Sir Adrian Swire. Take a look:

http://www.swirepacific.com/ir/director.htm

bow5

25th Nov 2002, 17:21

Paul Savage,

I think if you re-read my post you'll see that I said you will not get the loan without a degree UNLESS (i've put it in big letters for you this time) you have some form of security. If you now re-read your original post you'll see that you didn't mention anything about having security.

I wish you the best of luck but it seems to me you have a lot of growing up to do. Having read some of the other posts you've replied to, it seems you haven't heeded any of the advice given to you at all on this subject.

Have you any idea whatsoever that you are suited to a career as a commercial pilot? Have you taken the GAPAN tests? Have you set foot in an aircraft for a lesson? More importantly, have you even taken the Class 1 medical? I presume you must have at least done some of this or you wouldn't be so very naiive and arrogant as to put your father in the position of securing a £45,000 loan for this.

Reading this thread http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71091 you say your father has put his business on the line to secure this loan. I'm beginning to hope that you are taking the p**s and trying to wind us up and are not being serious. If you are being serious, then maybe you had better let your dad read some of the advice on this website.

The bare facts are these. The job market at the minute is not good. There are a lot of far more qualified people/pilots than you out there looking for commercial flying work and when it comes to it, they will get it over you. The chances of a 19 year old with 250hrs walking into a jet F/O position are miniscule. This means that if you can find a job before you have to start paying this loan back, it is not going to be the £30,000 a year job that you seem to think it will be.

I'm sorry if you don't like what i've written but you have a lot to learn. :( I'm 23 and despite wanting to fly since the age of 7 and more recently 6 years of research and pursuing that career I am still learning. Listen to what you are told, and take it on board. At 18 everyone thinks they know it all, just like I did, but 5 years later i know I did not, and that I still don't.

The one thing we do share is the passion to fly for a living. Don't give up on that dream but for god's sake do some more serious thinking about how you are going to achieve it.

Bow5

Kefuddle_UK

25th Nov 2002, 18:10

Just contact Pilot Assist they'll sort the s**t out 4u.

Is this a genuine bad experience?

P T Flea

25th Nov 2002, 23:12

When I went to see if I could get a Post Graduate and Proffesional Studies loan for £15,000 for Britannia they asked to see my Degree certificate. He even took a photocopy of the certificate for his records. They seemed fine about giving me the loan and I have no doubt that they would have lent me more if I had asked. I have no equity, but I think a degree stands for something like that. They also like to know that you are bonded to the company when you get a job so you are guaranteed a few years work and salary to pay back the loan with.

2WingsOnMyWagon

28th Nov 2002, 13:10

Mr Muppet please tell me you didnt show the manager your 'S*1T' and call him (or her) 'DUDE'?! also Bow5 makes some good points about the industry and asks the question 'Is it right to put your family at risk of financial ruin?' but the question was do you need a degree? and the answer is NO

New thread please!!!

:)

Feneris

29th Nov 2002, 14:32

I'm a non graduate and have been given a provisional yes for 10-12k from HSBC. Maybe the fact I'm paying for 2/3 of the course myself and previously earned £27k helped.

F

2WingsOnMyWagon

29th Nov 2002, 15:00

Muppet its no wonder HSBC said no to you! you dont know what your on about!!! Just like most of the other people on this thread, I got my loan without a degree. Why dont you try again when you finish high school!!

Piper Warrior Pilot

1st Dec 2002, 17:47

At the end of the day, I WAS TOLD that a degree is a 'piece of paper' and that is it, why waste money on goin to uni if you dont need a degree to becoem a pilot? You could save that money to help fund your training.

Also what does a bank manager know about becomming a commercial pilot. I think if you have a very strong proposal and you know what your talking about, having a degree or not shouldnt seem a problem to the manager.

Just a matter of opinion though

Good luck to all those persuing loans, hope you manage to get what you want.

bow5

2nd Dec 2002, 12:06

Piper Pilot,

A degree is just a piece of paper is it? There speaks someone who really doesn't have a clue. Maybe when puberty kicks in you might work out what real life is about. :rolleyes:

I don't know how many other ways there are to word this before the message gets through. Here goes for the last time:

You do not need a degree to get a professional studies loan (although god alone knows why) and you do not need a degree to gain an ATPL. Correct. Well done.

HOWEVER, there are currently a finite number of jobs available and more than enough people to fill them. This may appear arrogant but I tell you this, if we meet at an airline interview going for the same job there will only be one winner, and you will be dissappointed. You try and work out why.

A frozen ATPL and 250hrs means you can apply for a F/O job, it DOES NOT by any means put you anywhere other than the bottom of the ladder as far as employers are concerned.

Now, taking the above into account, add to it the fact that no one outside aviation gives a monkey's that you have a frozen ATPL, and that you will not have a great earnings potential with a couple of GCSE's, maybe you can see why a £45,000 loan is not such a hot idea.

I rest my case.

bow5.

2WingsOnMyWagon

2nd Dec 2002, 14:59

So god alone knows why does he? What about the fact that while richy riches mummy and daddy paid for a university education, others were out working for a living and are going to have to pay for their own training with thier own hard graft! How about the fact that those who went to uni have a 'piece of paper' while those who had to work (or choose to) have a skill to fall back on! Okay so the Airlines might like a degree on your CV , but if you have a look at entry requirements for sponsorship, most only ask for 2 A levels. What most airlines really want is experienced pilots with hours in the logbook! Bow5 you are arrogant and your full of crap. What makes you think you know better than the largest banking corporation in the world??? Oh yeah youve got a degree! So while you were at uni how were YOU learning about REAL life!

Im not trying to knock anyone with a degree, in fact I'll admit that someone with a degree has a better chance, but for Bow5 to say anyone without a degree dosnt deserve to be a professional pilot is a load of B@LL :eek: CKS! :mad:

p.savage

2nd Dec 2002, 19:35

Bow5 you really are perverting this now. You are an arrogant, smart ass, cocky git, and there is no need for it. Well done having a degree. NO BODY CARES.

bow5

2nd Dec 2002, 21:46

Gees guys, I can see the chip on the shoulder from here.

2wings,

Okay so the Airlines might like a degree on your CV , but if you have a look at entry requirements for sponsorship, most only ask for 2 A levels. What most airlines really want is experienced pilots with hours in the logbook! Bow5 you are arrogant and your full of crap.

Point 1) Airlines that ask for two A-levels specify it as a minimum for application. That doesn't mean you wouldn't or shouldn't get sponsorship with 2 A-levels but it is specified as MINIMUM. Most also state that 'having a degree would be a significant advantage'. I never wrote that I thought someone without a degree should not be a professional pilot. Far from it. I was responding to the fact that people have the audacity to dismiss a degree as a 'piece of paper' paid for by rich parents. I for one worked bl**dy hard to get there, stay there and have done since leaving. If you think that everyone who goes to University has rich parents then you are a long way wide of the mark. Generally it is the complete opposite. Has it occured to you that people go to university and 'graft' to stay there and then 'pay for their own training with their own hard graft!' afterwards? Obviously not.

Point 2) How exactly does someone who has borrowed £45,000 to train to get the basic licence then become an 'experienced pilot with hours in the logbook' given the current employment prospects? Where does the money come to pay back the loan and pay for the hours? Another loan maybe.

Point 3) Maybe I am. Maybe i'm not. Depends what kind of mood i'm in I guess. ;)

My view is that anyone who can do the training deserves to be a pilot, degree or no degree. I do, however,, have a problem with banks lending huge sums of money (£45,000 is a hell of a lot) to someone who, if they can't get a flying job, will struggle to pay it back. Banks couldn't care less if someone secures a loan then defaults on the payments. They will get their money back one way or another. :(

Take it easy,

bow5. :D

Kefuddle_UK

2nd Dec 2002, 22:22

I think two issues are being confused here!

1) Unless you have an LLB or a Doctorate of Medicine (possibly an MBA) a degree is not a measure of earning potential and I frankly think it is pretty naive to assume that the proud holder of a good (language, maths or science based) degree will be a surer bet.

2) A degree will not provide any advantage over the guy with two 'A' Levels. Positive evidence of an appropriate character in your CV, your relevant performance in the interviews, psychometric tests, personality tests and sim checks will!

Ta!
Kef.

2WingsOnMyWagon

2nd Dec 2002, 23:10

Chip on my shoulder! pah! Ive got my licence. Also I must wonder how you finished Uni and can still afford to pay for ATPL training? I myself went to uni and I havnt got rich parents. I left because it wasnt going to give me what i wanted and was going to leave me skint. If your degree is such a great thing why dont you use it to to make some proper money and fly for fun ?

Your second point, somebody with 45k can find other work other than direct entry airlines. Nobody said it was going to be an easy ride ( and they wernt wrong) but if its what you really want then you will find a way, even if it means taking an unrealated job to make ends meet and fly when youve got time and a little spare cash. 45k would be approx. 500pounds a month over 10 yrs (its harsh but not impossable). Also just because the industry is in a mess now, it dosnt mean its going to stay that way. Air traffic is set to double in the next 10-20 years after all.

I think youll also find that banks DO care about getting thier cash back otherwise people like darthmuppet (and others i know) wouldnt be moaning about being turned away. If you go to HSBC for a loan you WILL get risk-assesed. If they think your going to miss payments theres NO WAY there going to give you a penny especially as its unsecured. Oh yeah they will do 45k unsecured, i checked.

My final point (hopefully:rolleyes: ). When you go for an airline interview youll get asked loads of questions and they will make judgements on your personality. If they just dont like you then 10,000 hrs a degree or whatever will not make a blind bit of difference.:eek:

p.savage

3rd Dec 2002, 00:26

Amen 2 wings. Thank god someone knows the score, and isnt cocky and arrogant about it.

Respect to you my friend.

Paul

VFE

4th Dec 2002, 16:02

Now then boys and girls let's all wind our necks in a touch and listen to the original loan blagger: Uncle VFE.

I borrowed more than the amount being discussed here using a peice of paper showing my qualifications on it that was barely big enough to wipe my backside on. No A-Levels and certainly no degree!

How did I get the money then I hear you ask? Well, I acted a damn sight more mature than some of the posters here seem to behave and <whispers> had the old mans house slapped down as security. :D

If you have no security then I would imagine you're on thin ice asking for £40k+ even if your name is Stephen Hawkin.

Well, that's my story anyway and I'm sticking to that!

VFE.

PS: Darth old chap, why do you think the moderators are going to know the facts regarding HSBC loans? Most of them are pilots not HSBC employees!! They'll probably refer you to me! ;)

2WingsOnMyWagon

4th Dec 2002, 16:20

Hey Muppet "DUDE"
I think its been established that you do NOT need a degree to get the loan. This has degraded into a "discussion" about pilots needing a degree to get a job in the airlines.

2wings take a chill pill DUDE!

If I was any more chilled, Id have frostbite!:cool:

DRUGS! Just say NO!:D

Tim_Q

4th Dec 2002, 16:48

It really all boils down to security, not degrees or anything else for that matter!
If you can secure the loan, I doubt any bank will ask many questions at all, they will welcome your business as there is no risk to them.
If you have no security then you become a risk so they will ask LOTS of question. The more you want the more questions they will ask and the more you will have to give them the 'hard sell'. The more qualifications and/or experience you have the better chance you will have in this case.
Obtaining the kind of money needed to pay for a CPL/IR is surely going to be VERY tough without security, ou will generally struggle to get more than £15K in this way. :(
T

Feneris

4th Dec 2002, 23:00

Repeating myself: I don't have a degree and HSBC have agreed to a £10k Professional Studies Loan

However, I already have the PPL, a relevant number of hours and can contribute approx 2/3rds of the total cost myself. I also previously earned a decent salary, and have kept my bank happy in recent years.

The bank manager explained that this loan is assessed in the 'old way'. If you want a normal loan (for a car etc), your details are typed into the computer, which then makes an instant decision. With the Professional Studies Loan, the manager checks that the course you are interested in is covered under the scheme (ATPL is), then assesses the risk by looking at all relevant details and making a decision. He also phoned a better informed person at a regional/national office so he could further understand from the banks view what I wanted (And then dropped words like 'modular' in to the conversation).

I'm grateful for the loan, as it is the final top up needed to pay for the fATPL course.

F

p.savage

4th Dec 2002, 23:32

Did the HSBC ask to see any bank reports or to speak to your current bank manager?

2WingsOnMyWagon

5th Dec 2002, 00:02

I personally had to show my last 3 statements, also there was lots of phone calls behind the scenes between my local branch and the big wigs who make the final decision.

p.savage

5th Dec 2002, 15:28

Darth, what the hell was the need for that?

Wings was only offering his opinion. There is no need for childishness like that. I know I'm not perfect, but you've stooped too low now.

bow5

5th Dec 2002, 16:07

2wings,

You are right, this has rather got off topic regarding the actual loan. I think me and you may have got our wires crossed about that anyway. Bygones. :D

The point I was TRYING :p to get across was that maybe it wasn't such a cracking idea, given the job market at the minute, for Paul Savage to try and take a £45,000 loan at the age of 18 secured on his father's business.

All I can say is that if i'm wrong about that then I don't want to be right. I sure as hell know that at the age of 18 I wasn't ready for that kind of responsibility.

Take it easy....please ;)

bow5

2WingsOnMyWagon

5th Dec 2002, 17:20

Bow5
Maybe it isnt a good idea to take a 45k loan out whatever your age but come on, when you made your mind up to become a pro pilot would you be told?:D No me nether!! I dont know your personal circumstances or how your funding your training but HSBC are offering a chance to those who THEY think have a chance of eventually getting a job as a paid pilot. The point we both should be making to Paul and others in his position is: If its what you really want then fine BUT you are in for a tough time and you may end up stacking shelves or worse to make your repayments also any money you manage to save WILL get spent on renewals:( . Youve just got to remember why your doing it!:cool:

Bygones

You got it. Look forward to our next.... "Debate":D

As for Kermit the Muppet

F@CK OFF YOU PRAT!!!:mad:

VFE

6th Dec 2002, 14:04

When are you two lovebirds gonna stop flirting with each other? :rolleyes:

2WingsOnMyWagon

6th Dec 2002, 18:36

F@CK OFF YOU PRAT!!!
Can you not read? As for rearranging my face, You coudnt rearrange flowers you spotty little school kid. Do you even know what a GAPAN test is? Youll find that pilot assist use it as a requirement to get on to their course, and it has no bearing on the HSBC! The other loans you mention are personal loans which have to be payed back as soon as you take the loan where as the professional studies loan gives you 6 months, after you finish training, to find a job! Your just sour cos HSBC dont want to give you any dough and if you act like you do on PPRuNe is it any wonder?! Get a life because this industry has no room for "muppets" like YOU!

Now why dont you go and tell mummy that someones picking on her little pilot wannabe and hopefully shell do us a favor and stop you visiting this site!!

Kefuddle_UK

6th Dec 2002, 18:59

I'll hold yer jacket Wings. Somebody keep a lookout for teacher :p ;)

2WingsOnMyWagon

6th Dec 2002, 19:08

I'll hold yer jacket Wings. Somebody keep a lookout for teacher

If only it were that simple!! :D

Anyways people, if you want to find out (straight from the horses mouth) if you can get a "Professional Studies Loan" try HSBC on 0800 520 420 (am i allowed to post this?:confused: ) The worst they can say is no...

Feneris

6th Dec 2002, 23:20

To answer an earlier question, I showed previous bank and credit card statements to HSBC. I have also passed the RAF aptitudes, and was cleared for RAF pilot.

If only that had worked out I would be very happy!!

F

2WingsOnMyWagon

6th Dec 2002, 23:52

Feneris
Am I right to assume that you were going in to the RAF but for some reason turned it down and now your doing your ATPLs? Didnt you need to do a degree to become an RAF pilot ( i dont know much about the RAF im just curious)? Also, did you already bank with HSBC?

bow5

7th Dec 2002, 15:19

2wings,

At the risk of getting my head bitten off......

Technically you don't need a degree for the RAF, they specify a minimum of 2 A-levels.

However, the chance of becoming an officer without one is roughly the same odds as they were with Phil Neville being named man of the match today against the Gunners.:p You would have to be the proverbial Canines Kahunas as I understand it.

I think in the RAF's case, supply far outweighs demand. I personally only know of one person who was successful without a degree. I'm sure there are others but they are few and far between.

I'm ducking in anticipation....:D

bow5

2WingsOnMyWagon

7th Dec 2002, 17:25

So if i understand correctly, You can apply for a pilots position with 2 A-levels BUT to actually fly you need to be made an officer which is difficult without a degree. I see...

bow5

7th Dec 2002, 23:56

Spot on...(kind Of)

....You can become a pilot without a degree. You can also apply to fly as NCO aircrew without actually being the pilot, a branch in which I believe the RAF are currently short. I stand to be corrected on that :cool: .

Like I said, I did, albeit briefly, meet a guy at RAF Coltishall who had graduated from Cranwell as an Officer (pilot) and was in the holding pool for pilot training. Very sketchy details but I think he had done A-levels and then worked in a bar - He was, however, very switched on just as good as anyone who had a degree. When I went for RAF selection I can't remember anyone there going for pilot who hadn't been to university.

Still, that is not to say you cannot become a pilot without one!!! :D

bow5

2WingsOnMyWagon

8th Dec 2002, 01:28

This is getting well off the thread now (probably a good thing) but dont RAF officers have to train for 2-3 years at an officers academy, In which case theyve got to learn about alot more than just flying an aircraft... right?

bow5

8th Dec 2002, 15:47

Initial Officer Training is 6 months at RAF Cranwell and you learn about the RAF and being an officer pretty much to the exclusion of everything else.

Once you graduate IOT you go on to branch specific training. If you're a pilot candidate with no previous flying experience I believe this is elementry flying training.

scroggs

10th Dec 2002, 23:25

Darthmuppet is now banned from this forum. He will remain so until he learns to control his outbursts. 2wings has been warned for responding to Muppet in kind. I will not tolerate such behaviour on this forum. Keep this topic to the point or lose it.

2WingsOnMyWagon

11th Dec 2002, 14:23

Sorry Scroggs consider my wrist slapped:D

SPUK

I carnt show you a copy of my plan/portfolio BUT if theres anything specific you need some info or advice on....

empty pockets

12th Dec 2002, 00:42

2 wings, could you tell me what sort of info. you put into your portfolio? i have got as much as i could find on different flight schools and detailed info. on the ones i want to train with, but aside from that i dont know what to include to impress the bank manager

cheers

p.savage

12th Dec 2002, 01:43

Ill second that. Portfolio advice would be very welcome.

Cheers

Master Yoda

12th Dec 2002, 13:13

I'll third that.

What did you put into your portfolio??

Qualifications?
Flying Licence?
Financial Statement from bank/phone bill etc etc?
Have you been a HSBC Account holder for many years or just opened it for the loan? The loan is only available for HSBC account holders.

p.s. banning darthmuppet was a little harsh, he made a point about the qualifications versus collateral point.
the amount is arguable too, £20,000 no security, £40,000 need security was the discussion.
It would be interesting to get someone from HSBC HQ to comment on this.

2WingsOnMyWagon

12th Dec 2002, 15:02

Okay, here goes....

I Started off by getting all the information from lots of different FTOs, they all do glossy brosures which help. Most will also do you a course proposal, get a few of these together before you choose who you want to train with. Next, have a look at said proposals and work out what ISNT included ie Skills tests, exam fees, CAA licence fees and accommodation. Include the extra costs along with the proposals, as this shows that your unlikely to end up over budget (V.Bad). After you do this you will realise that you WONT be able to do an intergrated course UNLESS you are going to put your own cash in as well! I would also say do your Class1 med+PPL out of your own pocket (because the last thing you want is to get the loan and then find out your not physically sound or you just dont really want to be a pro pilot) this impresses the bank.;)
Moving on... The next thing I did was put a course outline together (you probably wont have to do this if your doing all your training with one FTO) this included who i was training with for certain parts (theory, hr building and ratings etc) it also states the total time to complete the course and the TOTAL cost of the training.
Next comes the loan layout, This shows how much you need at certain times for instance.. WEEK1/ start ATPL Distance Learning/ 2600 pounds (ATPL thoery course1700)(ATPL exam fees 700/50 per subject)(200 for equipment ie CRP5)....WEEK12 100pounds traveling costs to Gatwick for exams and so on. A little advice keep the first "drawdown" as low as realisticaly possable

Time to put your portfolio together. Choose you FTO include why youve picked them, their background,pass rates etc. Include all info on varies courses, whats the point of an IMC?, Hows an MCC going to help?etc. Also include comparesons against other FTOS costs and reputation. You will also need a letter of acceptance onto your chosen course. Do some research into the state of airlines and how they WILL improve. Remember... The bank dont know that much about flying training, their interested in YOU getting a job at the end of it, the phrase i remember most is "Your borrowing AGAINST future earnings"
A little advice If your distance learning, get yourself a part time job , the bank like this;)
You will need your last 3 bank statements, I didnt bank with HSBC but in order to get the loan I moved ALL my accounts over to them (which for me has been a good thing)

This is getting a little long winded, if theres anything more specific just say:cool:
GOOD LUCK!:D

P.S. Muppet deserved to be banned for talking rubbish if nothing else:D