Dambusters: Revisited

[dwaynedibley]

I would just like to say what a fantastic program the channel 5 documentary this evening about Barnes Wallis was. It's nice to see that channel 5 have gone a little further up market although not sure why the post-watershed time slot, perhaps its the uncensored use of the word ******. Unlike on here evidently.
Anyway nice to see more aviation programs on terrestrial TV, even with the slight bias towards the brains behind the bomb, which, having watched the program must have been the size of a planet, his brain that is, not the bomb.

[Man-on-the-fence]

Excellent programme even if they did try a bit of mud slinging about Gibsons popularity.

I especially liked the modern day explosive expert's attempt to recreate the minature dam experiments. When he let the charge off right next to the replica dam it just lifted it up in the air and deposited it down about 2 inches downstream with a crack down the middle.

Makes one realise how hit and miss the whole affair was really.

One thing I didnt realise was that when, in the film, Wallis referred to making the casing stronger; he was actually referring to the wooden casing giving it the shape of a Golf Ball.

Nice to see they didnt labour the now trendy view that it had little or no effect on the German War machine. Just a simple "it didnt shorten the war..etc"

Thanks Channel 5

[Unwell_Raptor]

There was no mudslinging about Gibson ; just the opinion of some who worked with him. Those of us who grew up in the post war period were deluged with propaganda thinly dressed up as history; that is quite understandable. But now the dust has settled historians have a duty to look more objectively.

Great men, in the right place at the right time, are rarely saints. The list is endless: Mountbatten, Bader, DeGaulle, Harris, Montgomery, Patton, and all the rest. All of them were awkward cusses to work with, but had the determination and drive to do the job. War is no place for the reasonable and the comfortable man.

It is right to confront our strengths as well as our weaknesses. Correlli Barnett's 'The Audit of War' is essential reading for the full industrial and economic picture. Max Hastings' Overlord was the first to take a cool look at the relative ability of the Allied and German troops, and the quality of their equipment.

[Man-on-the-fence]

U-R

Point I was making (very badly) was that they werent portraying him as the likeable hero everyone thinks he was.

In total agreement re your point about good leaders not always being saints. If they were, I probably wouldnt be here writing this today.

[SPIT]

In Richard Morris's book about Guy Gibson he seemed to be pretty class consious (excuse the spelling) of anyone who was not an Officer but NCO orO/R Aircrew?? :( :eek:

[Big Green Arrow]

Read it a while back...left little to the imagination about the calibre of Gibson..nor, for that matter, his charachter..which was the right one for the job...but not a popular one.

[northwing]

A good read on the subject is "Operation Chastise" by a chap called Sweetman. He researched it very thoroughly and actually determined from the Heidleberg University's seismograph records whose bombs actually did the damage. He also argues, convincingly, that one crew attacked a completely different dam to the one they thought they attacked - were misled by the shape of the lake being wrong because the water level was too low and and missed because the towers were the wrong distance apart.

He concludes that the raid was "a superb feat of arms", and I wouldn't argue with that!

[dwaynedibley]

The question I forgot to ask was I once heard that someone had maliciously dug up N**ger, or at least what was left, any truth in the rumour?

[escapee]

Not about the Dambusters but I am currently reading a book on the Nuremburg raid of Mar '44 by Martin Middlebrook. I have found it very interesting and has certainly opened my eyes to the reality of the strategic bomber campaign. I thought that all they did was send a load of bombers out to whack some city; did not realise all that was involved and the role of the Mossie. The book also gives an incite into the use of Gee, Oboe, Window and countermeasures used by both the Brits and the Germans. I would recommend the book to anyone who is interested in these types of subjects. The book also contains quotes by crews some of whom were killed on that or subsequent missions. Big B*ll*cks needed!

[Jackonicko]

Those with perhaps the biggest b*ll*cks were the NCO pilots in the last wave, who took off after everyone else (when the defences were thoroughly alerted and awake) and who had to complete much of their return journey in daylight.

[Arkroyal]

Not a bad programme, if a little thin.

Dwayne, when I was on a QFI course at Scampton in the late eighties, n1gger's grave was outside the CFS Bulldog squadron building. Much talk of an exhumation for end of course pranks, but we were told that the actual interment had taken place elsewhere (maybe a ploy to avoid the Navy making the biggest mistake we could have ever made - there's crab baiting, and ....well).

We were told that the actual grave was under the V-Bomber operations building, built in the fifties.

Curious, then, that the dog was, i believe, dug up and re-buried with his master in Holland a couple of years ago.

At least the Dutch appreciated the man, having lovingly tended his grave since 1944.

Gibson's own book 'enemy coast ahead' is a good read too.

[wub]

Interesting programme, quite well done.

On the topic of the censorship of Gibson's dog's name, there is the third in the series of 'Die Hard' movies on tv tonight, which has Bruce Willis standing in Harlem with a placard round his neck which proclaims 'I hate N1**ers' and the word is freely used in the Jackie Chan Movie 'Rush Hour 2'. Both movies made within the last 10 years, so what's the fuss?

[canberra]

the reason why that word cant be used on british tv is simple. its cos we had an empire, therefore we are nasty and horrible people. we must be thats why all the villains in hollywood have british accents. and our left leaning so called liberal media must remind us constantly how nasty and horrible we are.

[Taff Missed]

Just finished reading 'The Chequer Board' by Nevil Shute and the 'N'-word features bigtime throughout.

As it's a library book I'm a little surprised that some bleeding heart PC do-gooder hasn't gone through page by page and crossed out the offending word.

Taff:)