Tactical turns collision avoidance

[saudipc-9]

OK which is better?
In two/four ship Tac turns I like to think that the jets on the outside of the turn has the collision avoidance responsibilty. This of course changes with a shackle or cross turn when the #2 has the honour!!
In the US and Canada it is always the responsibility of the wingman to avoid lead in any turns. This doesn't make sense to me, given the wingman could be doing a sort or looking to the opposite direction when lead decides to turn. The result is a possible collision. Of course no lead will blindly turn:rolleyes:

Thought's????

[BEagle]

I recall being taught:

1. Outside guy goes high

2. Wing always avoids lead.

Not that I do much of that sort of thing these days......

[Background Noise]

There's a bit of mud/AD/LL/ML variation but I like it your way. Not sure that the term 'cross turn' is currently at the top of the wheel though.

I thought it was pre-determined where you are anyway - aren't you always in the wrong! ;)

[Chris Kebab]

Simple mate - if it all goes OK thank the lead - if it all goes tit$ up - blame the wingman/men - works in any formation!

[Nozzles]

I've tried it both ways and I prefer the Brit way (but that could be because I learned that one first, and like most pilots, am desperately 0pposed to change/progress)

[FlatLanderRemoved]

Yikes! Having experienced a few close ones - haven't we all - or at least haven't most of us(or those who will admit to it)? - I tend to brief "4 misses 3 misses 2 misses lead".

And then again Cold Lake range flying always meant looking out for yourself, your formation and at least one s.o.b. who figured it was your day to be bounced. Not so busy up there now, so I hear.

There are a bunch of possibilities - but in fact, Chris Kebab is closer to the truth than most like to admit!

Cheers to all,

FLR

[PlasticCabDriver]

Definitely prefer rotary style.
By the time you're anywhere close to getting near one other, you could have eaten yer rations, had a cup of tea and done the Times crossword.
Still manage to f*ck it up though...

[Cooperman]

BEagle forgive me, but surely point 1 and 2 contradict?

Unless of course you alternate left, right, left, right so that the wingy is always on the outside. Of course, you'd have to turn thro' more degrees each alternate turn to get back home.

Geez, I'm confused now.

I prefer 4 avoids 3 etc......learned the other way at the C place (outside avoids) but am now converted.;)

[BEagle]

Scratching the old grey matter to remember what I was taught by the excellent TWU chaps 20+ years ago. I recall that in a 2-ship it was always the job of the wingman to avoid the lead, in a 4-ship it was the job of 2 to avoid 1, 3 to avoid 1 and 2 and 4 to avoid everyone else. In any crossover turn, the element which started on the outside would cross above the other; however, collision avoid was as indicated above.

Please, please don't take this as any current doctrine - it's just what I think we were taught at Brawdy and Chivenor (ahhh) back in those days. But at Brawdy, we were still in the 'welded wing era'; however, 4 years later at Chiv we'd moved on to 'free and engaged' and other more contemporary techniques.