Virgin Flight Crew EA goes down 60/40.

[slice]

Well it’s official, relatively close result but just not enough put on the table(or too much taken away) by Management to get it over the line. AFAP might want to start talking to the TWU if they want to be more certain of getting an agreement up. Despite having the bulk of the Virgin flight crew cohort enough AFAP members along with presumably all of the TWU members voted NO to send it down. The AFAP and the company sold it really hard but it seems enough people have been screwed over by Virgins various failures over the years to simply say NO.

[nomess]

Just remember, Virgin itself only cares about a 51% yes. While in my eyes that’s a vote against the business and the unions negotiating, they don’t really care.

Be very mindful that a 11% carrot will be dangled to just get it over the line. That’s a failure, but that’s not important.

Happy to vote YES if credible improvements are put on the table. No lies please.

[Olive00]

Almost a mirror image of the “Feds with Network/Qantas” situation with them not listening to their members and then rushing to endorse a company document with scant regard to feedback.
Like Network, the NO vote will only grow if the same crap is dished up with sprinkles.
Feds need a change of negotiators who are grown up’s, can sit in a room with their colleagues from the other side (which is in their members best interest) and work together. Will they listen though???

[nomess]

I recall recent upvotes include Rex at 71%, Jetstar 66%, Network is well documented. The only real successful negotiation with a high approval rate was the Rex Saab deal and TigerAir last deal. Both smaller operators. The unions can’t handle the big fish. Perhaps they need a clean out themselves, starts at the top I guess.

[Jimsaviation]

What is the pay that was knocked back?

[t_cas]

What is the pay that was knocked back?

sub CPI and sold by including allowances as part of your salary….. and less days off and less leave slots available and less part time and more notice at resignation and lower buffer protections on days off and reduced infringement payments. I could go on. Basically costs (loss of conditions) far outweighed the benefits.
The only surprise is that the margin was not higher.

[framer]

Pretty crazy to be going backwards on conditions as Airline pilots in 2024 so no surprise it got voted down. How much financial pain are the PE owners prepared to endure v’s how undervalued/ ripped-off do the pilots feel?

[t_cas]

Also. It was 60.7 to 39.3 with about 98% participation.
details matter.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

It seems the rank and file don’t want to have to battle year after year to slow the decline nowadays. How many aviation EAs have made it over the line since the industry recovered post COVID?

[Jimsaviation]

Thanks for that, Tcas. Can you provide the actual amount? I’m interested in how far Australia has come during this shortage.



Given they want to increase the notice period, it is telling that the deal is inadequate. Sadly, VA and QF are the pinnacle in Australia, and they should not be concerned with resignations.
.

[neville_nobody]

Feds need a change of negotiators who are grown up’s, can sit in a room with their colleagues from the other side (which is in their members best interest) and work together. Will they listen though???

Such a Labor Party line. I have seen it in media, the newspapers and forums in reference to the Labor Party government. " The grownups are in charge now"

Ever thought that AIPA and AFAP want to stay out of politics hence have no interest in being dictated to by TWU?

[Kenny]

Also. It was 60.7 to 39.3 with about 98% participation.
details matter.

Unfortunately, Bain will look at that and only feel the need to sweeten the pot enough for another 10% to change their vote.

[walesregent]

Unfortunately, Bain will look at that and only feel the need to sweeten the pot enough for another 10% to change their vote.

That’s what qantas management thought with Network too, only to watch the no vote grow with each additional offering. That 10% will be a hard nut to crack.

[Jack D. Ripper]

Judging by the public reaction in talk back and media, not much sympathy for the pilots.

Potential for VA to be emboldened here with a sympathetic customer base.

For those contemplating PIA, be careful what you wish for.

[Ollie Onion]

Judging by the public reaction in talk back and media, not much sympathy for the pilots.

Potential for VA to be emboldened here with a sympathetic customer base.

For those contemplating PIA, be careful what you wish for.

Pilots will NEVER have public support, no matter what you think about our wages the general public will always be against pilots when the Company puts out 'an average A380 CP earns 500k' etc.

[walesregent]

Judging by the public reaction in talk back and media, not much sympathy for the pilots.

Potential for VA to be emboldened here with a sympathetic customer base.

For those contemplating PIA, be careful what you wish for.

My understanding is that the official line is that it got rejected because of a lack of fatigue protections, which makes fertile ground for improving public opinion. I personally question whether public opinion matters anyway (the public care much, much less about this topic than we do) but if it can be spun that crew are rejecting a large pay rise because the proposal doesn’t adequately address safety concerns it looks pretty bad for Bain.

[framer]

For those contemplating PIA, be careful what you wish for.
It’s an interesting landscape post Covid.
It seems a lot of the F/O’s are not particularly scared of losing their jobs and have a mindset that embraces fighting for a decent slice of the pie.
For me personally, going without pay during Covid taught me a lot. I have made adjustments to my investments and expectations so that if I was to leave the aviation industry and get a job at Woolies I am ok with that, and I am yet to turn 50. I will stay as an Airline Captain if I am reimbursed well for the work I do, but I will leave before trading years and lifestyle for moderate pay.
When two parties negotiate the party who is willing to walk away has a lot of power and it seems to me that a greater % of Australian Airline pilots are prepared to walk away than ever before. Interesting landscape.

[Transition Layer]

For me personally, going without pay during Covid taught me a lot. I have made adjustments to my investments and expectations so that if I was to leave the aviation industry and get a job at Woolies I am ok with that, and I am yet to turn 50. I will stay as an Airline Captain if I am reimbursed well for the work I do, but I will leave before trading years and lifestyle for moderate pay.

Your profile age has you at 57 FWIW

[nomess]

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2019/12/18/low-cost-australian-airline-jetstar-accused-of-exaggerating-pilot-wages-as-industrial-action-continues/

[framer]

Your profile age has you at 57 FWIW
Crazy aye. What I did was, I changed my date of birth when setting up so that it wasn’t the same as my actual date of birth!
( don’t tell anyone but my name isn’t Framer either)

[Oriana]

Judging by the public reaction in talk back and media, not much sympathy for the pilots.

Potential for VA to be emboldened here with a sympathetic customer base.

For those contemplating PIA, be careful what you wish for.
It's not popularity contest.