Third party airliner maintenance

[Mooncrest]

I don't know if it still goes on now but back when TUI UK was called Britannia Airways, the company performed base and line maintenance for outsiders' 727s, 737s and A300s (I always thought the latter was an odd one). I'm sure Air Tanzania and Aviogenex were among their customers but I expect there are several others of which I'm unaware. Similarly, MAEL performed work for Air 2000 and I think BIA (1-11s) and Air UK did Herald stuff at Norwich after the Blackpool hangars were vacated. What of the smaller players like Orion and Air Europe when they were starting out ? Did they have in-house maintenance from the beginning or did they entrust their new toys to established MROs ?

Thankyou.

[treadigraph]

Dan-Air did stuff for other people at Lasham I think, I can't recall what I saw there over the years (used to fly as a pax in the DA C150 as well as visits to look at the gliding!) but I'm pretty sure it wasn't all DA! Do recall an Arkia 737 but that may have been a lease.

There was also a Gatwick hangar later...

[Mooncrest]

What was Air UK Engineering at Norwich is now KLM and provides 737 maintenance, perhaps the CityHopper Embraers go there too. When Jet2 was fitting winglets to some of its 733s, the work was done in the LBA hangar by a KLM team.

[longer ron]

Bournemouth/FRA circa 2001 - a workmate took this Hawk Mk53 pic but you may be interested in the background A/C - iirc there was also a private 727 in the hangar belonging to an African President or similar ??
Cougar Leasing (perhaps on freighter conversion ?) - went back to the states ??

https://i.imgur.com/1xKE1tz.jpg

[thnarg]

I think AE’s early heavy engineering was split between Dan Air Lasham and Monarch Luton?

[DaveReidUK]

Bournemouth/FRA circa 2001 - a workmate took this Hawk Mk53 pic but you may be interested in the background A/C - iirc there was also a private 727 in the hangar belonging to an African President or similar ??
Cougar Leasing (perhaps on freighter conversion ?) - went back to the states ??

Yes, 727RE ("Super-27") of short-lived cargo carrier Cougar.

[oxenos]

I was co-pilot on a ferry of a Britannia 73-2 from Luton to Tel Aviv for servicing. Can't pick up my logbooks without getting a hernia these days - I would guess at late 80's.

[SpringHeeledJack]

I remember visiting Luton many times back in the day because some super rare 737 was being serviced in the Brittania hangars, usually African, Middle Eastern or South American. Not to mention Brittanias of various obscure cargo airlines from around the world at the Monarch hangars..

[treadigraph]

Aye, recall an interesting African 737 at Luton on the way to Mildenhall or Cranfield on a LAAS trip.

Just recalled, somebody always jotted down all the reggies collected at the stops and passed it round the coach. What a friendly bunch they were (and hopefully still are - all done by web and QR Code now I 'spect...)

[Mooncrest]

A curious situation, seeing an Air Europe 737 receiving attention from one of the 'opposition', especially Dan Air, whom supplied a few key board members at AE! I suppose airlines once kept their maintenance organisations at arm's length. And ultimately, business is business.

Chatting one evening to a Britannia engineer some years ago. He told a tale of one of the senior bods at the Luton hangar cancelling the Engineering Approvals for the 737-200 as the last of the Britannia aircraft had left the fleet. He was bluntly advised to get the approvals reinstated without delay as there was a Transavia 732 due into Luton that night - for a 'C' check!

[Krystal n chips]

AE's line operations were a bit of a strange mix at MAN...depending on the reg, either BY or DA did the engineering, and, at some point, BA became involved with the handling.

BY MAN line handled Transavia (ad hoc night freight ) Orion, El Al (720 /737 / 767 ) AE, Air Malta 720's (long story about a well known GE and a "difference of opinion" with an A M F/E one day) plus A A. The arrival of the latter produced the memorable comment from the then, unlamented, Station Eng about how cheap and inconsequential AA were as "they don't even paint their aircraft " .

[WHBM]

This sort of arrangement has run down over the years as airlines have reduced their in-house engineering operations, although the actual facilities themselves often continue as independent organisations. Lasham being a key example. A lot of such work has also moved overseas - I believe both BA and Virgin now send widebodies to The Philippines for D checks.

If you look at the current Google overhead view of Lasham you can see its parking area stuffed to the gills with stored A320s and 737s, taken during Lockdown.

Monarch gave up its Britannia fleet in the early 1970s, but retained their maintenance capabilities to the end of the type, including the Cuban ones that came over in the 1980s-90s for work.

[Mooncrest]

HAECO at Kai Tak once had British Airways (TriStar) and Orion among its British customers. I expect the Cathay Pacific TriStars were also maintained there.

Did Alidair carry out their own base maintenance at East Midlands? Bearing in mind Fields and BMA were Viscount specialists with their own hangars there. I believe the Gibair Viscount went to BAF at Southend and perhaps Cambrian /BA at Cardiff before then.

[MAC 40612]

I don't know if it still goes on now but back when TUI UK was called Britannia Airways, the company performed base and line maintenance for outsiders' 727s, 737s and A300s (I always thought the latter was an odd one). I'm sure Air Tanzania and Aviogenex were among their customers but I expect there are several others of which I'm unaware. Similarly, MAEL performed work for Air 2000 and I think BIA (1-11s) and Air UK did Herald stuff at Norwich after the Blackpool hangars were vacated. What of the smaller players like Orion and Air Europe when they were starting out ? Did they have in-house maintenance from the beginning or did they entrust their new toys to established MROs ?

Thankyou.
Most of the smaller operators when starting out, used to carry out their own ramp/turn around checks. Bigger checks being sent out to other Engineering facilities and MROs.

Of the two you mention, I think Orion used to have their Boeing 737 checks carried out by Britannia, while Air Europe had their work carried out by British Airways Engineering [at Heathrow] and British Airtours Engineering [at Gatwick] I worked on some of the Air Europe Boeing 757s that came into Heathrow for checks.

[oxenos]

Most of the smaller operators when starting out, used to carry out their own ramp/turn around checks.
When I left the R.A.F. and joined the airlines in 80, the pilots could do daily and turnaround checks. It meant an aircraft could operate away from base for several days (not sure how many) without engineering support. Not sure when the permision to do dailies stopped, but turnarounds down the line were still done by pilots when I retired in 2005 and I rather think they still are.
The worst bit of the Daily was checking the fuel sumps for water contamination. Almost impossible to do of without getting a pint of fuel over you, and smelling like a submariner for the rest of the day. That I don't miss.

[WHBM]

When I left the R.A.F. and joined the airlines in 80, the pilots could do daily and turnaround checks. It meant an aircraft could operate away from base for several days (not sure how many) without engineering support. Not sure when the permision to do dailies stopped, but turnarounds down the line were still done by pilots when I retired in 2005 and I rather think they still are.
The weekly BUA, and later B Cal, One-Eleven to West Africa used to take four days, outward Mon/Tue, return Wed/Thu. They took an engineer with them, who also had a very enhanced spares pack, to handle the daily check, plus various minor snags.

[bean]

Most of the smaller operators when starting out, used to carry out their own ramp/turn around checks. Bigger checks being sent out to other Engineering facilities and MROs.

Of the two you mention, I think Orion used to have their Boeing 737 checks carried out by Britannia, while Air Europe had their work carried out by British Airways Engineering [at Heathrow] and British Airtours Engineering [at Gatwick] I worked on some of the Air Europe Boeing 757s that came into Heathrow for checks.
Dan did the work on AE 737s for quite a while

[Mooncrest]

I wonder if Dan Air had 737 Approvals before they actually operated their own aircraft ? Air Europe had been flying theirs for two or three years before Dan Air. I expect the 727 experience Dan had gained at least came in useful for the engines, both the 727 and 737 being fitted with the JT8D.

[MAC 40612]

I think AE’s early heavy engineering was split between Dan Air Lasham and Monarch Luton?

Some of the larger Air Europe Boeing 757 checks were definitely carried out by BA at Heathrow, as I worked on some of them.

[MAC 40612]

HAECO at Kai Tak once had British Airways (TriStar) and Orion among its British customers. I expect the Cathay Pacific TriStars were also maintained there.

Did Alidair carry out their own base maintenance at East Midlands? Bearing in mind Fields and BMA were Viscount specialists with their own hangars there. I believe the Gibair Viscount went to BAF at Southend and perhaps Cambrian /BA at Cardiff before then.

HAECO also carried out a number of major checks on British Airways Boeing 747-236 aircraft but the less said about that the better...

[MAC 40612]

This sort of arrangement has run down over the years as airlines have reduced their in-house engineering operations, although the actual facilities themselves often continue as independent organisations. Lasham being a key example. A lot of such work has also moved overseas - I believe both BA and Virgin now send widebodies to The Philippines for D checks.

If you look at the current Google overhead view of Lasham you can see its parking area stuffed to the gills with stored A320s and 737s, taken during Lockdown.

Monarch gave up its Britannia fleet in the early 1970s, but retained their maintenance capabilities to the end of the type, including the Cuban ones that came over in the 1980s-90s for work.

BA only send their larger A380 checks over to the Philippines, as it was not seen as 'cost effective' to have a hangar converted at Cardiff for a relatively small fleet where the other BA wide-body larger checks are carried out. It is a Lufthansa Technik facility in Manila and I think that Lufthansa also send their A380 larger checks there.

Independent MROs have sprung up all over the World and are normally very competitive [price wise] as they tend to set up in areas where wages are at a lot lower rate.

[Krystal n chips]

When I left the R.A.F. and joined the airlines in 80, the pilots could do daily and turnaround checks. It meant an aircraft could operate away from base for several days (not sure how many) without engineering support. Not sure when the permision to do dailies stopped, but turnarounds down the line were still done by pilots when I retired in 2005 and I rather think they still are.
The worst bit of the Daily was checking the fuel sumps for water contamination. Almost impossible to do of without getting a pint of fuel over you, and smelling like a submariner for the rest of the day. That I don't miss.

If you are referring to the BY "long haul check " LBA / NCL were favourite destinations for such, it was basically ensuring there was enough tread / brake wear available for 3 / 4 days (didn't always go according to plan) plus oils in the hold. CSD / Hyd / tyre px were "topped up" prior to departure.

However, I would politely dispute the water drain check. There was a nice little funnel, with a bit around the middle, to stop splashing. Take one, small, plastic cup, plug in, fuel emerges, visual check for little globules....sorted !

[oxenos]

However, I would politely dispute the water drain check
Never seemed to work like that at 6 in the morning, holding a torch in your teeth, funnel in one hand container in the other. Sorted my a*se.

[Mooncrest]

HAECO also carried out a number of major checks on British Airways Boeing 747-236 aircraft but the less said about that the better...

I'll bite. What was the problem with HAECO?

[happybiker]

Did Alidair carry out their own base maintenance at East Midlands? Bearing in mind Fields and BMA were Viscount specialists with their own hangars there. I believe the Gibair Viscount went to BAF at Southend and perhaps Cambrian /BA at Cardiff before then.

Alidair did carry out their own base maintenance at EMA but did call on Fields for support when required.

Fields were contracted by British Airways to carry out the work required on ex Air New Zealand Viscount 807 Reg ZK-BRD to bring it onto the UK Register as Reg G-BBVH for Gibraltar Airways.