LBA and night flights causing a stir

[BonnieLass]

On the fence with this one.

When buying or renting a house near to an airport, you have to accept that there will be noise connected to that airport, potentially at all hours day or night. However when night flights happen during supposed "quiet" hours and against local council agreements and the local council refuse to step in, well that could be very annoying to residents nearby.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13481551/Families-Leeds-Bradford-Airport-illegal-night-flights.html

Is this part and parcel of life close to an airport or do the residents have a point?

[421dog]

Hmmm, maybe the Airport preceded the house, and the house was priced accordingly so sounds kinda like sour grapes

[Mr Good Cat]

Who would have thought that buying a house on short finals of an airport 25 years ago would be a problem in future?

it’s not like aviation and the world in general would grow over the next 25 years.

[Lascaille]

"During Covid it was a big sigh of relief"

"During the pandemic it all stopped for a couple of years"

I wish we had an island just for these type of people. One with caves.

[BonnieLass]

Personally I enjoy living underneath a flightpath albeit largely seasonal...and where the RAF/USAF overfly at all hours 7 days a week along with SAR and oil company helicopters on their daily journeys.

Not always but frequently homes close to an airport and under flightpaths tend to be cheaper for that reason...likely to be noisy and airports are unlikely to be 9 to 5. Buy (or rent) property near the airport, you buy (or rent) the airport and everything that comes with it. The pandemic certainly made people realise what they were missing in regard to the peace and quiet but you still cannot/should not accidently forget the airport a few fields away.

A lot of local authorities organise schemes to upgrade windows etc to fend off as much noise as possible but night flights are an inevitable part of having a holiday airport on your doorstep, flights don't always run on time and occasionally they leave late (at either end) which leads to inadvertant night flights in so-called quiet hours. But again that is life with an airport close by.

I do understand the grumbles (there are several of them in the building that I now live in), especially those with children who struggle with sleep, but as has been said by others on the thread, you have to adapt to it, live with it or just move elsewhere.

[DaveReidUK]

The Leeds situation is a can of worms.

Given a quota of night flights (no different in principle from that at airports like Heathrow and Gatwick), it beggars belief as to (a) how that isn't being monitored by the airport and (b) why no action is being taken against breaches of the limit.

[IBMJunkman]

I live a few miles from Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. A few times a year they do night operations. There are a couple of planes that I can hear their engines on run up and takeoff. Not that loud but it can be heard. A few people in my community complained. One person had the best response. It is the sound of freedom.

[Lascaille]

The Leeds situation is a can of worms.

It is indeed

[what next]

One person had the best response. It is the sound of freedom.
You may find that many countries who do not grant a lot of freedom to their citizens have plenty of military night flying activity...

And regarding the topic: I can understand the complaints to a certain degree. When you move close to an airport with 24 hour operation you certainly can't complain about aircraft noise. The price you pay for housing will reflect this. But these people moved to the vicinity of an airport wchich claimed to have a night flying ban. They certainly would not have taken that decision if they knew that the ban is not taken seriously.

[Lascaille]

But these people moved to the vicinity of an airport wchich claimed to have a night flying ban.

"Under legally enforceable planning conditions Leeds Bradford Airport is allowed a maximum of 2,920 flights between 11pm and 7am during British summer time - 31 March to 27 October."

That's not a night flying ban, that's the airport being legally permitted an absolute ton of flights. (1.78 flights an hour averaged over the entire period, if you wanna be precise.)

Surprised the residents even notice the limit being broken. They're just moaning because things are getting back to normal after COVID and they're the misanthropic types we saw on social media during the pandemic talking about how wonderful it is that they can work from home all day and go weeks without having to talk to anybody.

As I said: Island. Caves. Them.

[Liffy 1M]

I have some sympathy but the guy living four miles away is laying it on a bit. He's complaining about daytime operations too, it seems.

[FUMR]

Where I live there are no night time operations at all (2300-0600). Airliner and Bizjet movements average between 20 to 30 per day. Yet a bunch of clowns have been campaigning to close the airport completely. They are a tiny minority but seem to get a lot of support from the local press. Prior to retirement, one of the clowns worked at the airport and lived in a house right next to the runway! The aircraft which were operating in his younger working life were far noisier than those of today. What is also amusing is that any noise we do hear at night comes from cargo traffic operating out of two other airports. Some of the departure routes come very close to my house. I hear them if I happen to be awake but they never actually wake me up.

[El Grifo]

Colour me weird, but I actually bought a house nearer 03 ACE, just so I could idle my time away watching the Aviation Action.
Closes at 12.30 albeit !

Love it when the F18's come calling !

[Yorkshire100]

Couple of points on this.

1. Night flights are monitored and reported in and data provided to Leeds City Council who are responsible for enforcement. The facts are the airport has continuously breached that limit for more than. 10 years and the council have failed to take any action even when they were joint owners of the airport! As a result it is highly likely that the Council can take any action given the 10 year rule.

2. The number of daily flights in excess of the current allowance is tiny - on average 3 flights a day!

3. The chief proponent of this article - Mr Tate is a leading committee member of GALBA - a fact he chooses not to acknowledge in his interview. This group are against airport expansion anywhere in the UK, are taking the UK gov to the high court over its jetzero strategy and are in cahoots with stay grounded, flight free and other anti aviation groups. There reason are so opposed to night flights and in particular early morning flights at LBA is nothing to do with noise it’s about trying to stop any development at LBA by preventing airlines operating W schedules. A point GAlBA actually acknowledge on their website….

[packapoo]

Colour me weird, but I actually bought a house nearer 03 ACE, just so I could idle my time away watching the Aviation Action.
Closes at 12.30 albeit !

Darryl Kerrigan liked it too....;)

[Chiefttp]

Folks who buy a home near an airfield usually enjoy a discounted price due to the noise and other factors. Then they complain about the noise and other factors?

[El Grifo]

Darryl Kerrigan liked it too....;)

Who He ?

[Lookleft]

Who He ?

From a movie called "The Castle". About a family who are being evicted because the local airport wants to acquire his house to expand.

[rigpiggy]

Used to fly into I think Louisville. Airport was looking to expand. Bought every house as it came on the market. For the hold outs they made other houses unliveable, tore up water lines etc….. unless you work at the airport and need to be close, sell at a good price and move

[kristofera]

This reminds of when the new airport was built in Bangkok 20 years ago. The location is old swamp land, and there were few houses around it as it was not a very attractive location. Then, while the airport was being built, real estate developers bought nearby land and built housing estates. Many of them even used the proximity to the new airport in their marketing materials. Later, after the airport opened up, the same people who bought houses marketed as being close to the airport started complaining about the noise from departing and arriving aircraft. Many of them even received compensation although they knowingly bought houses a few km off the short end of the runways...

[Fursty Ferret]

Not LBA but the noise monitoring team for another major UK airport once told me that two people were responsible for 99% of their complaints (or some similar outlandish statistic, can’t remember exactly). Wouldn’t be surprised if the same happened here.

A few more flights wouldn’t do any harm, LBA to LHR should never have been scrapped. It changes a 40 minute flight into a four hour epic across London or stuck in the giant roadwork that is the M1.

[Lascaille]

the noise monitoring team for another major UK airport once told me that two people were responsible for 99% of their complaints

Social disorder / crime is the same way, if you ask any policeman - there's basically 1% of people responsible for all of it.

[Maninthebar]

Not LBA but the noise monitoring team for another major UK airport once told me that two people were responsible for 99% of their complaints (or some similar outlandish statistic, can’t remember exactly). Wouldn’t be surprised if the same happened here.

A few more flights wouldn’t do any harm, LBA to LHR should never have been scrapped. It changes a 40 minute flight into a four hour epic across London or stuck in the giant roadwork that is the M1.

The train service is 2.5 hours or less and a cheaper option (data from trainline and kayak). I know this may be unpopular on this forum but short hop air travel is not always the answer

[Yorkshire100]

The problem with the train, as a person that used the ECML twice weekly knows from Leeds to London it isn’t a reliable service. To avoid missing your flight you have to allow plenty of time and then face getting across London on the underground with luggage.
At least when taking a connecting flight the airline are obligated to get you to your final destination something the train company obviously isn’t obligated to do. I now stick to connecting via Dublin or Schipol when flying LH from LBA.

[Maninthebar]

Oh yes, I agree that investment in trains, track and management is also necessary. Providing a RELIABLE train service would, in my view, be a better solution. YMMV

[Zombywoof]

The trouble with trains is people jump in front of them. It happens much more often than people think, because these incidents are not publicized to discourage copycats. And when it does happen, reliability goes out the window for the rest of the day.

If you are on a train that's stopped because of a jumper ahead, unless you're on a section of track that's easily accessible by road, you aren't going anywhere for several hours. And neither are the people waiting in stations behind you.

I say this as a regular traveller on commuter trains. They are almost always on time, until...

The carrier I use doesn't mince words in their onboard announcements. They use the words "trespasser" and "fatality" so you know exactly why you're not moving.

Let me also say this: my carrier has a policy of refunds for all if your train is more than 15 minutes late. I have used it, and they stand behind it. Small consolation if you've been stuck for hours..

[3db]

I purchased my first property within 10miles of LHR in 1979. Conveyancing solicitor told me to expect noise. Aircraft back then were much less frequent but also much noisier. I still purchased (and still own it). I love aircraft noise!

[El Grifo]

I purchased my first property within 10miles of LHR in 1979. Conveyancing solicitor told me to expect noise. Aircraft back then were much less frequent but also much noisier. I still purchased (and still own it). I love aircraft noise!

Well thats two of us at least :-)

[3db]

Must be something to do with our age!

[El Grifo]

Must be something to do with our age!

Not me !
Been strangely addicted since childhood.
Think Lightnings at Leuchars and Vulcans or Vulcan at Prestwick twisted my head :-)

[widgeon]

I expected a thread about Luftfahrt Bundesamt,

[M100S2]

Nearly 40 years ago my job took me to Leeds, when looking for a house the standing joke amongst my new colleagues was to avoid some areas (Horsforth & Cookridge) because you’d have noise, tyre marks on your roof and unburnt fuel falling from the sky.

As it was the house we chose was 4 miles as the crow flies from the airport, not on the approach to the longer runway 14/32 but under the 09/27 approach (the shorter less used runway )

We still regularly heard and were often woken by the early morning British Midland flight departing to Heathrow, back then using a DC9 iirc. I flew on it, the BA flights to Gatwick and the KLM / Air UK flights to Schiphol quite regularly. (Work took me to Sweden, Switzerland, France & Germany quite regularly)

Strangely we seemed to hear the flights, particularly the British Midland early morning flight more clearly than someone living just 1.75 miles from the airport (in Bramhope)

We had very few approach or departures overhead to the 2nd shorter runway 09/27 and eventually it closed, and while flights in general certainly got more frequent the noise levels appeared to have dropped significantly with the use of more modern aircraft to the point where it isn’t really an issue…at least for those who were sensible enough to choose to live somewhere other than on the approach path.

With the ‘wrong’ air conditions and open windows overnight we heard flights at 30k feet to and from North America into Europe far more than anything local.

[ACW342]

Well thats two of us at least :-)
One of my sons earliest words, (he's now a SNCO in the RAF) was '' 'Ackelton"

A342

[El Grifo]

One of my sons earliest words, (he's now a SNCO in the RAF) was '' 'Ackelton"

A342

Oh Sh** !!!!!! :-) :-)

[plg101]

The train service is 2.5 hours or less and a cheaper option (data from trainline and kayak). I know this may be unpopular on this forum but short hop air travel is not always the answer

From Leeds to Kings Cross is minimum of 3 hrs 20 IF everything goes to plan. It's 2hrs 15 just for Leeds to Kings Cross. Oh and direct flights from LBA to LHR were stopped in the pandemic.

[Asturias56]

"From Leeds to Kings Cross is minimum of 3 hrs 20 IF everything goes to plan. It's 2hrs 15 just for Leeds to Kings Cross. "

i'm confused - its 3:20 AND it's 2:15???

[Request Orbit]

Given the context of the original quote I’m guessing 3:20 is Leeds to Heathrow. Not quite the 4-hour epic described but not too far off.

[Asturias56]

he says Kings cross for both times - I presume he means LBA and C Leeds - but who knows............ maybe he went the long way round

[Request Orbit]

I know what it says, but the original quoted post was in response to:

A few more flights wouldn’t do any harm, LBA to LHR should never have been scrapped. It changes a 40 minute flight into a four hour epic across London or stuck in the giant roadwork that is the M1.

Kings Cross to Heathrow is 51 mins, add a buffer for connection and it works out about right.

[plg101]

he says Kings cross for both times - I presume he means LBA and C Leeds - but who knows............ maybe he went the long way round

Firstly my apologies, I was multi tasking when I posted.

Leeds to Heathrow is a min of 3hrs 20 if all goes to plan, more realistically c.4hrs. The first leg from Leeds to Kings Cross is c 2hrs 15 at best.