No Fuel at Perth Airport (YPPH/PER)

[Saintly]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1079x975/smartselect_20240601_092154_facebook_492ae1a0d8858a51813b4fb 808b3e9a644b5d9f0.jpg
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[Saintly]

Apparently they have plenty of fuel but for some reason the delivery pressure isn't enough to refuel aircraft.

[Saintly]

They've had people working on it since midnight.

[hotnhigh]

Harley Reid is supposed to be the answer to everything over there, get him on to it.

[Saintly]

Fuel NOTAM issued for GET. No Jet A1 available for aircraft departing YPPH heading Northbound. No more diversions from YPPH.

[neville_nobody]

Major international airlines must just shake their heads at this country. They pay exorbitantly for everything on a global scale yet you divert because they can't repair the fuel system in Perth and you can't land at Brisbane because of relatively light fog.

[Lead Balloon]

Hopefully GT will inform us of the cause, shortly.

[Clare Prop]

Dial before you dig!

[Clare Prop]

Hopefully GT will inform us of the cause, shortly.

Of course!

[SOPS]

If GT is on the case, it will be all under control.

[Icarus2001]

Climate change strikes again. Or is this one Covid? Or perhaps because of Putin?

[Capn Bloggs]

A couple of 380s at Busso would be good for the council's coffers. Oh wait, front coming through shortly... :{

[dragon man]

Dial before you dig!

If only. I recently paid $700 to find out where the Telstra lines were to put in a driveway crossing, we then dig and cut some other Telstra lines, cost me a bit over $2000 to have them repaired.

[KRviator]

Dial before you dig!

If only. I recently paid $700 to find out where the Telstra lines were to put in a driveway crossing, we then dig and cut some other Telstra lines, cost me a bit over $2000 to have them repaired.Did you use DBYD or some other third-party company? I've used DBYD many times before and never once been charged for it.

[nivsy]

I can't believe that Perth has no contingency plan nor what it appears a Risk Management Plan. This is actually quite a serious event. Who is ultimately responsible vor.thid massive failure?

We have now the London to Perth direct flight diverting to Karatha which has no customs. So no one will get off. The whole thing has turned into a PR nightmare and someone needs to.be held accountable . The QR flight from Doha (Airbus 380) was loaded at DOH and now it's everyone off.

Embarrassing. The airlines must be livid.

[TWT]

Refuelling issue now fixed apparently. Now to clear the backlog....

As you were.

[nivsy]

Refuelling issue now fixed apparently. Now to clear the backlog....

As you were.
The aftermath and hopefully management executive enquiry will be interesting reading. See where the finger pointing leads...yet the pax and airlines take a significant hit.

[Saintly]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1078x1593/smartselect_20240601_120109_facebook_acfa923544b26abdc06e9f6 146eac514b58d2fc8.jpg

[Ken Borough]

Harley Reid is supposed to be the answer to everything over there, get him on to it.

Very funny, but undoubtedly lost on those who don't follow Australian Rules football.

[VH-MLE]

Perth transport infrastructure is beyond a joke! Last night, top Italian soccer teams AC Milan & Roma were playing a game in Perth. Of course, with 25 mins to kick-off, thousands of spectators are stuck on various train platforms because of a "technical issue". Transperth "thank everyone for their patience & understanding" just like Perth Airport has now.

How critical infrastructure like fuel supply doesn't have a suitable backup system in place is inconceivable. We all know that power is a critical piece of infrastructure, because if the normal source of electrical power goes off line, then backup generators kick in so that the operation can continue. Even Perth Airport has backup generators, but even they didn't work when the airport lost its normal power supply a few months ago...

I guess this one of the many benefits of privatisation we keep getting told about...

[nivsy]

I think the audacity from the airport is in their statement ....not really shouldering the blame but saying this happens throughout the world and then compares technical issues to weather. Seriously....they are beyond a joke.

This was a massive failure by the airport and or whoever they contract with to maintain and provide this service (is it in house now?). ...Responsibility needs to be identified and steps in place to ensure that such an event has appropriate contingency.

Now I'm wondering if airlines will be claiming compensation? The poor passengers as usual at Perth will be out of pocket and many with ruined or disrupted holidays due to this incompetence of not having strategic back up plans in force.

​​

[Mr Approach]

An interesting chain of events.......
As far as I am aware, airports can only be closed by CASA or the airport owner, ATC used to be able but that disappeared with Government Operational Control years ago

So someone decided to close Perth Airport at 312326UTC. Why, because the fuelling system had failed. (It turns out that the tanks had lost pressure, there was plenty of fuel, so all that was needed was a competent engineer to fix the problem.)
Is this a reason to close an airport and force the diversion of inbound aircraft to remote, unfamiliar airports, without adequate facilities, in Class G airspace?
I would not have thought so...

To my mind, the lack of refuelling capability, is surely a decision that should properly be made by the PIC, after consulting his/her operating company.

So did CASA make the decision, my guess would be no. There was not a safety reason to close the airport. So it must have been the airport owner. Why?
There was no risk associated with aircraft landing in Perth, other than not being able to depart. A commercial risk for the operating company. So why?

Here I invite Pprune speculation.........first a few of my own.
Legal issues - being sued by airlines
Airport commercial issues - gates blocked by aircraft unable to depart
Occam's Razor favours my last suggestion.
Someone, who had no knowledge of how the airline industry operates and no knowledge of who is actually responsible for the safety of an aircraft, made a knee-jerk decision, to close a perfectly safe and serviceable airport to air traffic.
Perhaps though there are other issues, about which we have not yet been informed.

[Angle of Attack]

Just remember during COVID the west was the economic powerhouse of the nation (GDP about 15% of country actually) but in fact it is a backwater that quite frankly should be ostracised from the rest of the country. I lived there for 4 years and I just shake my head at how things are run in WA, A deer with no eyes comes to mind…

[mates rates]

They suffer badly from gross isolationism in WA, but this is real3rd world stuff.I can’t believe SOMEONE closed the airport.On what authority?

[BuzzBox]

I lived there for 4 years and I just shake my head at how things are run in WA, A deer with no eyes comes to mind…

Would you care to be a little more specific? WA seems no better or worse than other parts of Oz, though that’s not necessarily a good thing…

[Saintly]

I think the audacity from the airport is in their statement ....not really shouldering the blame but saying this happens throughout the world and then compares technical issues to weather. Seriously....they are beyond a joke.

This was a massive failure by the airport and or whoever they contract with to maintain and provide this service (is it in house now?). ...Responsibility needs to be identified and steps in place to ensure that such an event has appropriate contingency.

Now I'm wondering if airlines will be claiming compensation? The poor passengers as usual at Perth will be out of pocket and many with ruined or disrupted holidays due to this incompetence of not having strategic back up plans in force.

​​

Articles rhat i was reading said some pax want compensation from airlines for the delay and also accomodation iasues at their destinations but airlines told pax by law they dont need provide compensation as the issue was out of their control.

[Icarus2001]

Looking forward to hearing if the leaseholder of Perth airport has the legal authority to close it without a safety reason.

[dragon man]

Articles rhat i was reading said some pax want compensation from airlines for the delay and also accomodation iasues at their destinations but airlines told pax by law they dont need provide compensation as the issue was out of their control.


It will be interesting to see which if any airline puts their hand in their pocket.

[aussieflyboy]

Just remember during COVID the west was the economic powerhouse of the nation (GDP about 15% of country actually) but in fact it is a backwater that quite frankly should be ostracised from the rest of the country. I lived there for 4 years and I just shake my head at how things are run in WA, A deer with no eyes comes to mind…

You ever been to Victoria?

[TBM-Legend]

Apparently they have plenty of fuel but for some reason the delivery pressure isn't enough to refuel aircraft.


beware of the cyber attacks children and no backup. This is real and WW3 is on us. If it isn’t in this case this is what it looks like…

[Angle of Attack]

You ever been to Victoria?


Yes, but it’s a grain of salt compared to Wait a While, ie WA

[Colonel_Klink]

Some interesting points being made about redundancy of fuel supplies - makes you wonder whether this country only having 24 days of jet fuel reserves is adequate……

Also a fair point as to why you’d close the airport because of no fuel supply - the runways and terminals are still ok, having some of those international carriers divert to WA regional towns with CTAFs is not ideal.

And does anyone know if QF10 had the same crew that operated from London to Karratha do the Karratha to Perth leg? I’m surprised they have an FRMS exemption that would allow a diversion, and then subsequent sector given the amount of time the crew would have been on duty:
90 minute sign on (I assume)
16 hour flight LHR - KTA
90 mins on the ground in KTA
1:40 hour flight KTA PER

[Fred Gassit]

I think the NOTAM closing the airport did say except for airborne enroute aircraft or aircraft not requiring fuel.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

Perth Airport only bought the fuel system back in August 2023 from the previous operator. BP are contracted by Perth to run and maintain it.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

So aircraft that diverted away from Perth to "Oh the humanity" alternate airports that may well have been in G, did so at the pilot's and/or company's discretion? If the first post is indeed an accurate portrayal of the NOTAM, they had the option of continuing. Obviously braving the world outside Perth was a commercial decision.

[nivsy]

Perth Airport only bought the fuel system back in August 2023 from the previous operator. BP are contracted by Perth to run and maintain it.
That is interesting. So I assume the contractual situation is that BP has failed a major KPI and that there should be some cost implications. Why could BP not supply a solution more "timely".

[nivsy]

Articles rhat i was reading said some pax want compensation from airlines for the delay and also accomodation iasues at their destinations but airlines told pax by law they dont need provide compensation as the issue was out of their control.
Certainly no surprise in that...indeed the airlines in Australia don't really provide compensation if it is their fault!!

[morno]

Some interesting points being made about redundancy of fuel supplies - makes you wonder whether this country only having 24 days of jet fuel reserves is adequate……

Also a fair point as to why you’d close the airport because of no fuel supply - the runways and terminals are still ok, having some of those international carriers divert to WA regional towns with CTAFs is not ideal.

And does anyone know if QF10 had the same crew that operated from London to Karratha do the Karratha to Perth leg? I’m surprised they have an FRMS exemption that would allow a diversion, and then subsequent sector given the amount of time the crew would have been on duty:
90 minute sign on (I assume)
16 hour flight LHR - KTA
90 mins on the ground in KTA
1:40 hour flight KTA PER

Completed with the same crew within the bounds of the FRMS.

[43Inches]

FRMS is not the old CAO 48 where you get exemptions from rigid duty times. There is probably an allowance that the crew can extend to x amount as long as they get xx time off, built into the FRMS. You just plug the duty into the system and it pops out the requirement, the whole point of it is to allow more flexibility in operations.

[717tech]

All gates occupied, taxiways blocked by aircraft waiting for said gates. How many aeroplanes can the Airfield accommodate before the last aircraft on final is told they can't land as there's no usable tarmac for them? A NOTAM effectively ordering a ground stop seems logical to me.

[NaFenn]

An interesting chain of events.......
As far as I am aware, airports can only be closed by CASA or the airport owner, ATC used to be able but that disappeared with Government Operational Control years ago

So someone decided to close Perth Airport at 312326UTC. Why, because the fuelling system had failed. (It turns out that the tanks had lost pressure, there was plenty of fuel, so all that was needed was a competent engineer to fix the problem.)
Is this a reason to close an airport and force the diversion of inbound aircraft to remote, unfamiliar airports, without adequate facilities, in Class G airspace?
I would not have thought so...

To my mind, the lack of refuelling capability, is surely a decision that should properly be made by the PIC, after consulting his/her operating company.

So did CASA make the decision, my guess would be no. There was not a safety reason to close the airport. So it must have been the airport owner. Why?
There was no risk associated with aircraft landing in Perth, other than not being able to depart. A commercial risk for the operating company. So why?

Here I invite Pprune speculation.........first a few of my own.
Legal issues - being sued by airlines
Airport commercial issues - gates blocked by aircraft unable to depart
Occam's Razor favours my last suggestion.
Someone, who had no knowledge of how the airline industry operates and no knowledge of who is actually responsible for the safety of an aircraft, made a knee-jerk decision, to close a perfectly safe and serviceable airport to air traffic.
Perhaps though there are other issues, about which we have not yet been informed.
The airport was closed to any aircraft that were not airborne already or did not require fuel.

Therefore any plane already airborne is not required to divert, unless the company makes the decision to do so for (insert reason here). Most likely diverting to Geraldton (Or another airport) in an attempt to uplift enough fuel to fly to Perth, then on to their destination? Seems like a legitimate business case to me when you don't know long it is going to be until fuel is available at Perth, and it is only an extra 1ish hours of fuel they are taking on (assuming there aren't any landing limitations already limiting the fuel uplift possible).

[BuzzBox]

Airport closures rarely occur in Australia, but it certainly happens overseas. If a major airport (eg Hong Kong) gets taken out by severe weather and all the inbound aircraft start diverting, the nearby alternates fill up very quickly. When it gets to the point where they can't fit any more aircraft on the airfield, they stop accepting any more arrivals. Aircraft at the back of the queue looking for somewhere to divert get told "cannot".

[john_tullamarine]

(A bit tongue in cheek)

One should look on the bright side of things.

As all the grey beard locals will (fondly) recall, in days of yore we regularly (or so it seemed) had fuel strikes (whatever) which stranded us in various exotic ports around the countryside for various periods of time.

One of the best I recall was in Darwin (?). After 5-6 days, we thought it appropriate to contact crewing to see if they had a gameplan (wishful thinking). The response was along the lines that they didn't even know we were in Darwin. Damn, if we hadn't rung we probably would have had a fortnight or more holiday. Another, in Perth, saw only the Goose flying. One layover, the party was in a particular captain's (now long gone) room. We got back the usual 3-4 days later to find the same dramatis personae in the same room, evidently in the throes of the same party. When we offered to extra crew a few of them back to Melbourne, we were met with the most impolite responses.

I could go on but it would inevitably lead to disclosures better not to be made .....

Ah, the memories.

[Hollywood1]

All gates occupied, taxiways blocked by aircraft waiting for said gates. .

Sounds like LAX on a normal day.

[Stationair8]

What’s GT thoughts on this issue?

Didn’t Qantas pioneer inflight refuelling capability under Joyce’s leadership?

[Waghi Warrior]

Welcome to the real world aussies, in recent months particularly in the last 4 weeks PNG has experienced 100s of flight cancellations due to fuel shortages related to foreign exchange problems.

Not much media hype about it in PNG, and most passengers just accept it and go back to the airport the next day, the next day and eventually get to their destinations.

The impacts when this occurs are a lot more significant for PNG in comparison to most countries, as the 2 major RPT operators in PNG are the backbone of the transport sector, due to the lack of alternative modes of transport as a result of the high terrain in the country - limited highways networks.

[Icarus2001]

You do see you are comparing two developing countries. Oh the humanity.

[chimbu warrior]

Perhaps Perth Airport, Transperth and a whole lot of other organisations need to spend more time focussing on their business than worrying about their pronoun preferences and other woke rubbish.

[compressor stall]

And fixing the leaking roof in T4!

Corflute signs everywhere. All smart and ready. Clearly not a once off!

[WingNut60]

And fixing the leaking roof in T4!
Must be new. There has been no leak since last November until this week.

[greybeard]

Hey, as there has been little or no Rain since November, thus no leaks???

In the hills behind Perth, nil rain end Oct to end May, any loads of "Town Water" corrupt the low Rainwater reserves.

[Stationair8]

How will they get the Movietone news reels in from the east coast of Australia?

[Heywoodjablome]

Must be new. There has been no leak since last November until this week.
used to leak in the days of AN

[zegnaangelo]

I was flying around Jandakot, tuned to PER Centre on Sat and heard some lighty request a landing (could be an ILS approach) into Perth.
PER centred asked straight out what was the purpose of the flight was, and was told it was a training flight. Clearance straight out denied saying the tarmac was a little bit of a mess with all the aircraft piled up.

[Hollywood1]

I was flying around Jandakot, tuned to PER Centre on Sat and heard some lighty request a landing (could be an ILS approach) into Perth.
PER centred asked straight out what was the purpose of the flight was, and was told it was a training flight. Clearance straight out denied saying the tarmac was a little bit of a mess with all the aircraft piled up.

If it’s a training flight conducting a practice ILS, then they’ll conduct a missed approach at/before the minima so they don’t need to land there.

I had a quick look at FR24 on Saturday to see whether there were any departures happening and did see a PA44 conduct two practice ILS’s on 03 followed by missed approach. Reminded me of Covid times when lighties were flying in to major capital city airports for the fun of it because of reduced RPT traffic.