MOD Sued by Helo Crews

[ORAC]

https://archive.ph/2024.05.29-051953/https://www.thetimes.com/article/british-military-pilots-cancer-toxic-fumes-helicopters-jfltlr3dm

MoD faces cancer legal action over helicopter crew ‘dying from fumes’

Dozens of former pilots and aircrew are suing after being exposed to toxic emissions from British military choppers

Serving and former pilots and aircrew are allegedly dying of cancer after being unwittingly exposed to toxic exhaust fumes pumped out by British military helicopters.

The Ministry of Defence knew about the potential risks to its personnel for more than a decade and did nothing about it, according to testimony from sick personnel and their family members.

Troops who flew in Sea King, Wessex and more recently Puma and Chinook helicopters have been diagnosed with cancers such as non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, multiple myeloma, lung cancer, throat cancer and testicular cancer.

The Times can reveal that nearly 40 of those affected are in the process of suing the MoD (https://archive.ph/o/Lw78r/https://www.thetimes.com/article/soldier-wayne-boss-left-disabled-after-mod-overlooked-risks-of-helmand-fevers-jnd8dwpkf), with the number expected to double in the coming weeks as more people come forward.

Lawyers described the cases so far as the tip of the iceberg. Those affected include personnel from all three services and of all ranks, from those in the highest positions in the armed forces to leading aircrew and sergeants….

Five former service personnel have received out-of-court settlements, including a former flight sergeant and helicopter winchman, Zach Stubbings (https://archive.ph/o/Lw78r/https://www.thetimes.com/article/raf-crewman-who-trained-prince-william-gets-payout-for-cancer-blamed-on-jet-fumes-6wr0htcr2), who trained Prince William, who also served on Sea King helicopters.….

[BonnieLass]

Surely this legal action would also impact other countries who still use the Puma and Chinook in military service but then you have the civilian companies/organisations too, especially those who still use Puma in the oil/gas industry. This could snowball very rapidly if the link is proven.

There will be quite a number of military and civilian operators who will be watching the progress of this very closely and possibly employing their own studies and lawyers in readiness for further claims/cases.

[Jazzyg]

As I recall in the early 90's we at TSW were visited to ascertain the noise, fumes etc alongside the PPE we wore during hot refuels. We did a few AC including the Wessex where the tech actually declined to let us know the readings as he wanted to pass the findings on for further analysis.......I do recall the Wessex (front refuel point) and the Seaking were particularly bad for fumes alongside the Puma (in certain conditions) and suffered from streaming eyes etc. Will be interesting if groundcrew/ TSW etc ever have this looked at alongside the Aircrew.

[ETOPS]

I’ve seen studies where aircrew are shown to be 13% more likely than the population to develop non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. Some studies have linked this with exposure to cosmic radiation but this latest report about fumes is interesting. Who hasn’t been exposed to burnt Jet fuel in and around aircraft?

[slfool]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/29/mod-sued-over-allegedly-carcinogenic-fumes-from-military-helicopters

[tucumseh]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/29/mod-sued-over-allegedly-carcinogenic-fumes-from-military-helicopters

"The MoD knew about the potential risk from the fumes in Sea King helicopters in 1999,"

I don't know where they got 1999 from. In 1988 every company supplying MoD were paid to go through their design records and required by law to declare hazardous substances, under the Montreal Protocol. Any positive declarations were then investigated.

That same year major technical problems and hazards caused by Sea King efflux was investigated. That was then passed to 'affected parties', as per regs, which includes aero med.

Then, from 1990, the funding was pulled as part of the savings at the expense of safety policy.

In 1990, heavy landings and crews in sick bay due to fume inhalation in Lynx (not efflux) was met with 'The RN can take a running jump, ground their aircraft, and come a-begging next year'.

[Grimweasel]

Does the same issue occur in the C130 fleet, as the internal heating was from air piped over the engines as I recall??

[212man]

Does the same issue occur in the C130 fleet, as the internal heating was from air piped over the engines as I recall??
I very much doubt it was. Normally heating comes from bleed air mixed with ambient

[albatross]

In flight school our flight surgeon described extended hovering in zero wind conditions as “Wallowing in your own excreta!”

[Ascend Charlie]

The smell from the exhaust of the Bell 407 was distinctly different from our B206 fleet. Stings the eyes, catch the breath in your throat.

[Shackman]

I sort of wish I hadn’t seen this. I have just begun to have a throat problem investigated, although it has taken some effort (and time) to get my GP interested. (7000hrs approx Whirlwind/Wessex/Chinook plus Gazelle + Squirrel)

[skua]

Re the Times article, Kai Macnaughton was a feisty chap, and Clare M an equally feisty woman. She will not let this drop, and rightly so.

[212man]

Re the Times article, Kai Macnaughton was a feisty chap, and Clare M an equally feisty woman. She will not let this drop, and rightly so.
What do you base the “rightly so” remark on?

[SimonK]

I sort of wish I hadn’t seen this. I have just begun to have a throat problem investigated, although it has taken some effort (and time) to get my GP interested. (7000hrs approx Whirlwind/Wessex/Chinook plus Gazelle + Squirrel)

I wish you the best of luck shackman. I’m one of at least 3 of us (I know of) from the article who had the same tonsil/lymph node cancer. Mine was found due to a persistent lump in my neck that took a while to get diagnosed. I sincerely hope yours is nothing but please move heaven and earth to get it looked at - pay for a private consultation if you need to. So many cancers are treatable if found in time you cannot put a price on your health.

[ancientaviator62]

IIRC from my 13000 hrs C130K time the cargo compartment always smelt of a mixture of exhaust fumes and electric and hydraulic fumes. The tanker smelt even worse with the tanks in the cargo compartment. I also wonder what effect my groundcrew time on the Javelin, Hunter and Lightning had especially from the starting systems.

[PlasticCabDriver]

When the weather is particularly chilly up here on the N Sea (so from August to May, I know..) it’s not uncommon to see the helideck crews standing in the engine exhaust in an attempt to keep warm. I have started telling them not to, “you really really don’t want to be breathing that in!”. They don’t seem to do it again.

[Saintsman]

Whilst I have great sympathy for those who are suffering, where are the stats that show the number of people who do not or did not have any ill effects when they worked or flew in these aircraft?

Life isn’t always fair.

[ORAC]

Whilst I have great sympathy for those who are suffering, where are the stats that show the number of people who do not or did not have any ill effects when they worked or flew in these aircraft?

Presumably the evidence will come out in court.

​​​​​​​ I note Tucumseh’s comments about papers and declarations in 1988 which were passed to Aero Med and are presumably available in the archives - and that five of the original claimants received out-of-court settlements, which is not something the MOD and Treasury are known to be generous with, unless it’s to prevent evidence coming to light which would result in a far greater future liability.

[212man]

When the weather is particularly chilly up here on the N Sea (so from August to May, I know..) it’s not uncommon to see the helideck crews standing in the engine exhaust in an attempt to keep warm. I have started telling them not to, “you really really don’t want to be breathing that in!”. They don’t seem to do it again.
I certainly used to do that too!

I’m curious why this is being highlighted as a military problem and why the US do not have a head start in evidence and litigation.

[diginagain]

I certainly used to do that too!

I’m curious why this is being highlighted as a military problem and why the US do not have a head start in evidence and litigation.
https://www.health.mil/Reference-Center/Reports/2023/02/09/Study-on-the-Incidence-of-Cancer-Diagnosis-and-Mortality-among-Military-Aviators-and-Aviation-Support-Personnel

[ORAC]

https://archive.ph/2024.06.12-191841/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/raf-aircrew-raised-fears-of-toxic-helicopter-fumes-20-years-ago-8rlk6668d

RAF aircrew ‘raised fears of toxic helicopter fumes 20 years ago’

Flight lieutenant alerted senior personnel in 2000, but no action was taken, lawyers and families claim

[tucumseh]

https://archive.ph/2024.06.12-191841/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/defence/article/raf-aircrew-raised-fears-of-toxic-helicopter-fumes-20-years-ago-8rlk6668d

RAF aircrew ‘raised fears of toxic helicopter fumes 20 years ago’

Flight lieutenant alerted senior personnel in 2000, but no action was taken, lawyers and families claim

The usual out-of-date crap from the Times. They must no longer read pprune!

[BonnieLass]

Incredible courage by a former RN helicopter pilot will be part of a series on Ch4 about Royal Marsden Hospital

Rich Sutton was diagnosed with a rare cancer, epithelioid fibrosarcoma, and has endured several operations to save his life, the latest being featured on the programme (series starts 9pm on the 18th June). He strongly suspects the disease is connected to flying Sea Kings as per the many lawsuits ongoing.

His story can be found here on this link.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13534479/Hero-Navy-pilot-tumou-saved-operation.html

A truly amazing and courageous man. Good luck to him and his family....and the rest of the crews who have been affected.

[Martin the Martian]

Considering how many people have flown and worked on helicopters worldwide over the last sixty or seventy years, wouldn't there be thousands of cases by now?

[Training Risky]

Kai Macnaughton died? Kin ell?! :(

He had his troubles about 20 years ago in the press...! But that happened quick!

Per Ardua.