National service manifesto pledge

[Lomon]

So, James Cleverly (which has to be a oxymoron) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69059992?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6652d9c9e5702a5b8f6bcc5e%26What%20we%20do%20know %20about%20national%20service%20plan%3F%262024-05-26T10%3A33%3A55.531Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8b9a8fa8-c2c6-45a0-9c16-da815b6b0cb6&pinned_post_asset_id=6652d9c9e5702a5b8f6bcc5e&pinned_post_type=share

He wants 30k young people a years to do 25days service per year.

Surely as a reservist he knows that it takes more than 25 days just to complete the basic training, and should also be aware that the current training regime for all 3 services is already maxed out trying to get the regulars through basic training and on to Phase 2 units.

Is this grasping at straws?

[Bob Viking]

As I’ve already said on Jetblast (with the caveat that I seriously doubt it’ll ever come to pass) it had better be fully representative of every ethnicity, gender and race or there will be hell to pay.

BV

[212man]

So, James Cleverly (which has to be a oxymoron) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69059992?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=6652d9c9e5702a5b8f6bcc5e%26What%20we%20do%20know %20about%20national%20service%20plan%3F%262024-05-26T10%3A33%3A55.531Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:8b9a8fa8-c2c6-45a0-9c16-da815b6b0cb6&pinned_post_asset_id=6652d9c9e5702a5b8f6bcc5e&pinned_post_type=share (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-69059992?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bb c_live&ns_linkname=6652d9c9e5702a5b8f6bcc5e%26What%20we%20do %20know%20about%20national%20service%20plan%3F%262024-05-26T10%3A33%3A55.531Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset)

He wants 30k young people a years to do 25days service per year.

Surely as a reservist he knows that it takes more than 25 days just to complete the basic training, and should also be aware that the current training regime for all 3 services is already maxed out trying to get the regulars through basic training and on to Phase 2 units.

Is this grasping at straws?
I see the article says:
At any given time, there are roughly three quarters of a million over-18s in the UK
None of whom are proof readers......

[Asturias56]

have they asked the Army? because that s where most would end up - historically the Army has not been a fan of conscription in the UK.

It looks and sounds like a desperate attempt to get the over 60's to vote for them TBH but it just ensures the Youth vote will be energised.

[Lomon]

but it just ensures the Youth vote will be energised.

Yes, but are the “yoofs” going to vote for conscription or against it? This could be the biggest backfire in electoral history … unless Rishi has called the GE in the knowledge he’s going to lose and is doing it now so he can’t be blamed for something round the corner that he knows is about to bite the UK in some way?

[PapaDolmio]

Has anyone actually asked the Service Chiefs I wonder?

[ORAC]

The military option will be voluntary, selective, and commissioned - and not square bashing or combat armed roles.

Sounds more like secondments to Abbey Wood, MOD and Cheltenham rather than Salisbury Plain…

”Young people will be able to choose between:

“Applying for a competitive, full-time military commission over 12 months in the armed forces or UK cyber defence, where young people will learn and take part in logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations. This placement will be selective, so that our world leading armed forces recruit and train the brightest and the best”.

“Volunteering for one weekend per month (25 days per year) in a civic role, where they can choose between roles in our communities…….”

[Akrotiri bad boy]

“Volunteering for one weekend per month (25 days per year) in a civic role, where they can choose between roles in our communities…….”


That sounds like a DofE Gold award

[PapaDolmio]

'Sounds more like secondments to Abbey Wood, MOD and Cheltenham rather than Salisbury Plain'

Next generation of Civil Servants then?

[stevef]

A stupid idea, doomed to failure. Regular drug-testing would exclude many of the 'participants' anyway.

[Ninthace]

The commissioned bit is interesting. One wonders what the selection process will be?

RAF - explain Bernoulli's Theorem with your hands tied behind you back.
RN - tell me why ships float
Army - did I know your father?

[Finningley Boy]

The military option will be voluntary, selective, and commissioned - and not square bashing or combat armed roles.

Sounds more like secondments to Abbey Wood, MOD and Cheltenham rather than Salisbury Plain…

”Young people will be able to choose between:

“Applying for a competitive, full-time military commission over 12 months in the armed forces or UK cyber defence, where young people will learn and take part in logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations. This placement will be selective, so that our world leading armed forces recruit and train the brightest and the best”.

“Volunteering for one weekend per month (25 days per year) in a civic role, where they can choose between roles in our communities…….”
So, even reading the bold print here, only those with a minimum level of academic qualifications would be considered for 12 months in some form of militsry service. We always hear, even now, the old line about national service being a good way to sort out stroppy young lads, "it never did me any harm" etc. All this is ignorant of the point of national service from 1948 to 1960, when young men were called up under the peacetime draft. The idea was to maintain a sizeable military posture in peacetime, largely in response to the need to maintain a military presence in the remaining empire outposts and a sizeable army to confront the Soviet Bloc. 17 December 1960, I believe is the day that the last call up teenagers were herded through the main gates of various, mostly army and RAF, recruit training camps.

The navy and marines seemed to largely avoid conscription. According to one veteran of the peace time call up, three names were decided by some criteria or other, upon arrival (not sure if this was the case at all recruit camps). They were asked to step forward and were told grab your bags, your going home, Merry Christmas! For the rest, they were due to be demobbed in December 1962, the Cuban missle crisis put paid to that, and their service was extended by six months. The last national serviceman, I understand, was an RAC Lieutenant, who cycled back from West Germany to Zeebrugge, or wherever, in June 1963, and handed his uniform in on return to Blighty!:ok:

FB

[Biggus]

In 2022 (the latest year I could find figures for in a very quick internet search) there were about 715,000 18 year olds in the UK (it might have been just England and Wales).

Even allowing for half going to university, and presumably exempt, that leaves 358,000.

There are supposedly 30,000 places on this national service scheme.

As a comparison, last year 330,000 young people (admittedly not all 18) started the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme.

[anson harris]

One would hope that any Grandparents (who this nonsense is clearly aimed at) who vote for this are ex-communicated by the rest of their family.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Has anyone actually asked the Service Chiefs I wonder?

A politician asking the Service Chiefs ? That's crazy talk :eek:

[Two's in]

Conscription is to Defence strategy what diving weights are to high jumping. It's an idea beyond stupidity and is about as desperate as a tramp fighting for the last Greggs pasty in a rusty skip.

[bugged on the right]

This is a scheme which needs a very long time to get up and running. I think it's a good idea to generate reserves which can be used with a minimum of training.

[WHBM]

In the 1959 election the Conservative Party had announced they would end National Service. They won, and they did, in 1960.

Could it be that Rishi Sunak's advisers have got things back to front for what people vote for ?

[Ninthace]

This is a scheme which needs a very long time to get up and running. I think it's a good idea to generate reserves which can be used with a minimum of training.
25 days in Abbey Wood won't do that!

[Ninthace]

Just what we need in the military right now, YTS with a pip on their shoulders.

[Barksdale Boy]

No need for everyone to get their knickers in a twist: it ain't gonna happen.

[Finningley Boy]

Conscription is to Defence strategy what diving weights are to high jumping. It's an idea beyond stupidity and is about as desperate as a tramp fighting for the last Greggs pasty in a rusty skip.
Very Droll Sir!

FB:D

[DaveReidUK]

Just what we need in the military right now, YTS with a pip on their shoulders.

I see what you did there ...

[Asturias56]

They've admitted there will be no sanctions if people refuse to turn up................

[Fortyodd2]

Well, I think it's fortunate that for the last 30 odd years, successive governments haven't sold off all those barracks and airfields otherwise there would be nowhere to accommodate all these willing volunteers :ugh:

[falcon900]

It is a pity that an idea which in a better thought through form in my view would deserve some serious consideration has been hijacked as a manifestly desperate election gimmick.
As presented, it is nonsense on every level and is further evidence of total organisational incompetence.

[anson harris]

They've admitted there will be no sanctions if people refuse to turn up................

What they've subsequently said, in that joined up way that we've become used to over 14 years, is that the parents of 18 year olds that don't show up will be fined. I'm not sure how that would work - 18 year olds are, after all, adults.

[NutLoose]

They've admitted there will be no sanctions if people refuse to turn up................

It will be like the roll call at the end of the film Zulu then..

[cynicalint]

They've admitted there will be no sanctions if people refuse to turn up................
Yet a Tory Minister, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, has now stated that Parents could be fined if their children refuse to do the service! Total idiocy as the 'child' will be over 18!

[Expatrick]

Any hint of compulsion and the human rights lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee.

[ShyTorque]

These "willing volunteers" could be used to look after those unfortunate enough to be living free of charge in military accommodation such as Linton on Ouse.

Obviously, the volunteers would have to pay to live there....

[dead_pan]

The military option will be voluntary, selective, and commissioned - and not square bashing or combat armed roles.

Sounds more like secondments to Abbey Wood, MOD and Cheltenham rather than Salisbury Plain…

”Young people will be able to choose between:

“Applying for a competitive, full-time military commission over 12 months in the armed forces or UK cyber defence, where young people will learn and take part in logistics, cyber security, procurement or civil response operations. This placement will be selective, so that our world leading armed forces recruit and train the brightest and the best”.

“Volunteering for one weekend per month (25 days per year) in a civic role, where they can choose between roles in our communities…….”

So a sort of woke conscription then, nothing too demanding, and only if you volunteer and are selected?

As for secondments to Cheltenham, really?? By the time they've done all the background and personality tests etc, the year will be up and it would have cost a fortune.

​​​​​​​Yet a Tory Minister, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, has now stated that Parents could be fined if their children refuse to do the service!

Fined for refusing to volunteer?? Peak Tory policy that.

Semi serious question - what do Reform think? That it doesn't go anywhere near far enough, that we should send these idle 18 year olds back to the beaches of France to fight the foreigners, just like the good ol' days?

[dead_pan]

It is a pity that an idea which in a better thought through form in my view would deserve some serious consideration

How so? as others have stated, are the forces in favour of such a scheme?

[SimonPaddo]

Should just promote Duke of Edinburgh scheme- that seems to achieve benefits for participants and the community as a whole. As said the military are fully occupied with the regulars without this pointless distraction. As said above though it isn’t going to happen so deep breath and relax.

[Expatrick]

I imagine hardened socialists have a problem with the "Duke of Edinburgh" scheme - now if it was called the "Karl Marx" (or even the "Watt Tyler") scheme it would have greater appeal.

[ORAC]

Regarding doing the same for combat units - that program already exists - the Army Officer Internship Programme….

https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/entry-options/officer/
Army Officer InternshipsThe Army Internship Programme is your opportunity to experience a challenging and rewarding year with the Army in the role of an Army Officer for 12 months before, during or after University.

You will receive the same world class leadership training at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (https://how-to-join/training/officer-training/) as our Army Reserve Officers and then further training afterwards, depending on your role. You will then be attached to a regular Army unit, in the UK and on routine duties around the world, shadowing the daily role of an Army Officer, learning to lead up to 30 soldiers.

You will be paid throughout and take part in sports, adventurous training and military training exercises, but you will not deploy on operations.

An Officer Internship offers unique and exceptional leadership training and experience, as well as an unrivalled insight into the life of an Army Officer. Once you have completed your internship, you can elect to remain in the Army as a Reservist or regular Army Officer, or you can choose a completely different career path.
Skills you'll gain include:

Learning how to overcome physical and mental challenges

Developing your leadership qualities and gaining key management skills


You do not have to continue serving in the Army after your internship, but we do hope that you will. You will be qualified to continue to serve as an officer in the Army Reserve (https://jobs.army.mod.uk/army-reserve/) both during and after university; or you can complete the Regular Commissioning Course if you'd like to serve as a full-time Army Officer.

[Matt2725]

So a sort of woke conscription then, nothing too demanding, and only if you volunteer and are selected?

As for secondments to Cheltenham, really?? By the time they've done all the background and personality tests etc, the year will be up and it would have cost a fortune.



Fined for refusing to volunteer?? Peak Tory policy that.

Semi serious question - what do Reform think? That it doesn't go anywhere near far enough, that we should send these idle 18 year olds back to the beaches of France to fight the foreigners, just like the good ol' days?

As I understand it. Even Reform think it's a stupid idea so go figure.

[DogTailRed2]

Why wait until you are about to become unemployed to make such a pledge? Ahh yes, cynicism. Won't happen as the Tory party won't happen.

[langleybaston]

As Orville said to Wilbur "this will never fly!"

The idiot incompetents in government cannot even get 11 year-olds to pitch up at school, so how might 18 y o be coerced? Sanctions?
Every day is like 1st April with knobs on.

Words [almost] fail me.

[langleybaston]

It will be like the roll call at the end of the film Zulu then..

Say Sir! Officer on parade!

[chevvron]

The idiot incompetents in government cannot even get 11 year-olds to pitch up at school, so how might 18 y o be coerced? Sanctions?
Every day is like 1st April with knobs on.

Words [almost] fail me.
There are a lot of Army, Sea and Air cadets who would sail through the training easily when they leave school.

[staircase]

just talked to a 'Tory Lady' of a certain age;

'no mother with a son under 18 is going to vote for us now, we might as well go home'!

[Ninthace]

Going well so far!
Young Tory defects over national service - and warns more could followBy Megan Harwood-Baynes (https://news.sky.com/author/megan-harwood-baynes-807), news reporter

The president of the Birmingham Young Conservatives has defected to the Lib Dems in the wake of the Tories' national service announcement.

The scheme would give 18-year-olds the choice of a year-long full-time military placement, or volunteering for one weekend a month in a public service like the NHS.

But the move has been met with disquiet from the youngest corners of the party.

Harvey Whitby, 20, called the plans "particularly concerning" and said he feared they would not just lose the party the election, "but lock us out of government for a generation or more".

He said, by contrast, the Liberal Democrats offered Britain a "true centre party", posting a statement on X with the simple caption: "I'm done."

https://x.com/WhitbyHarvey/status/1794841045588689186?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembe d%7Ctwterm%5E1794841045588689186%7Ctwgr%5Ee2c78335f1aa470dc1 dd5db83645ab3354fc3abe%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fpolitics-latest-sunak-starmer-davey-tories-labour-lib-dems-general-election-12593360

'Pure desperation'

Speaking to Sky News, Mr Whitby said this particular policy pushed him over the edge because "my vested interest is the rights and political say of young people and a policy like this directly impacts young people".

The mood, he said, was downhearted among his peers.

"Many felt like CCHQ was throwing policies at the wall, hoping to see if something sticks. It's pure desperation to go after policies like this to try and woo back voters who have switched to Reform," he said.

And his final warning to the party he has supported since he was 17?

"The majority of my peers are set in a 'let's ride out the storm', mentality, but a few more policy mistakes like the national service one, and more could follow [me out the party]."

[Martin the Martian]

And according to BBC News, Sunak says that those undertaking military service will receive "a stipend to help with living costs".

So, not even a proper wage then. For a whole year.

Keep going Rishi; that hole is getting deeper.

[langleybaston]

Five graduate grandchildren, early twenties, to lunch yesterday. I rolled out the policy as a little talking point.
Their politest reaction was "risible".
Their grandparents agreed.

[Krystal n chips]

Continuing the theme of this hypothetical Baldric style cunning plan, this on the basis it actually requires a Tory Gov't to be elected in the first place, has there been any mention of, ahem, "exemption clauses" for those who may feel less than inclined to participate ?

That, and when it comes to cyber, and geeks, from experience geeks, by their very nature tend to be, let's call this, un conformist in actions and appearances, hence a nice regimented day, plus associated BS, isn't going to have what you might call a strong allure to participate.

[Ninthace]

According to the DT this morning
Zer vill be no exceptions
Full time carer? Nein
Going to University? Nein
In full time employment? Nein
Already in the armed forces? Ve vill zink about it.

[gravedigger666]

Back when I joined up, National Service woud have suited me very well! Even now, 30 years later I would stil jump at the chance, unfortunatey its a misguided plot to win votes, I'm not sure whos votes, but thats all it is...I think Americans have a frase for it? "Blowing smoke up ones ass"!

[beardy]

Five graduate grandchildren, early twenties, to lunch yesterday. I rolled out the policy as a little talking point.
Their politest reaction was "risible".
Their grandparents agreed.
My two children, in their 30s, one a secondary school teacher and the other working in the film industry, surprised my wife and I by declaring that there was merit in the idea. The concept of giving to society instead of taking from it without thought was one of the points raised. Perhaps 'National' Service could be replaced with 'Civic' Service.

[dead_pan]

Regarding doing the same for combat units - that program already exists - the Army Officer Internship Programme….

https://jobs.army.mod.uk/regular-army/entry-options/officer/Army Officer InternshipsThe Army Internship Programme is your opportunity to experience a challenging and rewarding year with the Army in the role of an Army Officer for 12 months before, during or after University.

You will receive the same world class leadership training at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst (https://how-to-join/training/officer-training/) as our Army Reserve Officers and then further training afterwards, depending on your role. You will then be attached to a regular Army unit, in the UK and on routine duties around the world, shadowing the daily role of an Army Officer, learning to lead up to 30 soldiers.

You will be paid throughout and take part in sports, adventurous training and military training exercises, but you will not deploy on operations.

An Officer Internship offers unique and exceptional leadership training and experience, as well as an unrivalled insight into the life of an Army Officer. Once you have completed your internship, you can elect to remain in the Army as a Reservist or regular Army Officer, or you can choose a completely different career path.Skills you'll gain include:

Learning how to overcome physical and mental challenges

Developing your leadership qualities and gaining key management skills


You do not have to continue serving in the Army after your internship, but we do hope that you will. You will be qualified to continue to serve as an officer in the Army Reserve (https://jobs.army.mod.uk/army-reserve/) both during and after university; or you can complete the Regular Commissioning Course if you'd like to serve as a full-time Army Officer.

This scheme is only open to a handful of people (like the vast majority of internships).

Still desperately trying to polish that t*rd I see...

[dead_pan]

My two children, in their 30s, one a secondary school teacher and the other working in the film industry, surprised my wife and I by declaring that there was merit in the idea. The concept of giving to society instead of taking from it without thought was one of the points raised. Perhaps 'National' Service could be replaced with 'Civic' Service.

Didn't Cameron try something along these lines but the program too was put out of our misery after a few dismal months when nobody signed up for it?

[Ninthace]

My two children, in their 30s, one a secondary school teacher and the other working in the film industry, surprised my wife and I by declaring that there was merit in the idea. The concept of giving to society instead of taking from it without thought was one of the points raised. Perhaps 'National' Service could be replaced with 'Civic' Service.
Cameron proposed that before the 2010 election, A certain R Sunak finally unfunded it.

[Stuck On The Ground]

According to the DT this morning
Zer vill be no exceptions
Full time carer? Nein
Going to University? Nein
In full time employment? Nein
Already in the armed forces? Ve vill zink about it.

“Tory donor? This way please.”

[Saintsman]

I understand the derision and scepticism, but we are not the only country considering conscription.

I don’t know what the odds are for some sort of military conflict within Europe are, but it is not unreasonable to think that war is possible. If it were to occur and continue after our regulars have been consumed , then conscription would surely be necessary. Would the idea be poo pooed then?

Although some might think it an election gimmick, it’s not without its merits.

Of course, putting it into practice is another matter…

[ORAC]

With the situation in Europe, even assuming a Labour landslide, it’s not a matter of if, but when.

[dead_pan]

With the situation in Europe, even assuming a Labour landslide, it’s not a matter of if, but when.

It really isn't.

[langleybaston]

It really isn't.

I am reassured. What great relief. As Mrs T said "Rejoice!"

[dead_pan]

I don’t know what the odds are for some sort of military conflict within Europe are, but it is not unreasonable to think that war is possible

If you mean war with Russia, I think you can rest easy given their recent and ongoing efforts.

WRT to conscription, if it was ever needed in the unlikely event of a conflict which stretched our existing forces, i'm sure we could enact it at short notice - and with broad piblic support.

[dead_pan]

I am reassured. What great relief. As Mrs T said "Rejoice!"

Glad I could put your collective minds at rest.

Interested to know where this notion that we are the brink of war is coming from. Is this a social media thing? Or a yarn GB News are spinning in order to prop up their viewer numbers?

[Fortissimo]

What if you have bone spurs?

[oldmansquipper]

So….

to make sure his government doesn't get re-elected and then have to sort out the unsortable, Rishi throws the teen vote under a bus!

Sirkir can sort it..

[langleybaston]

Glad I could put your collective minds at rest.

Interested to know where this notion that we are the brink of war is coming from. Is this a social media thing? Or a yarn GB News are spinning in order to prop up their viewer numbers?

Brilliant irony.

[Ninthace]

What if you have bone spurs?
No exceptions!

[ORAC]

Interested to know where this notion that we are the brink of war is coming from. Is this a social media thing? Or a yarn GB News are spinning in order to prop up their viewer numbers?
Perhaps you should listen to the leaders and military analysts of the Baltic states, Poland and most other Eastern European nations?

e.g. ​​​​​​​https://x.com/_jakubjanda/status/1795125221650755717?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
​​​​​​​

[cynicalint]

I hope those expectant National Service applicants will have more luck than the applicants for full time service!

[Barksdale Boy]

Surely the solution is to pay our armed services what they're worth.

[Woodsy2417]

Incredible, 14 years of running down all three armed services and then they come up with this 40 days before an election. It beggars belief.

[dead_pan]

Perhaps you should listen to the leaders and military analysts of the Baltic states, Poland and most other Eastern European nations?

e.g.

Social media then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[dead_pan]

Incredible, 14 years of running down all three armed services and then they come up with this 40 days before an election. It beggars belief.

Wot, theres me thinking it was a carefully considered policy following months of analysis and consultation with service chiefs, not an offcut of red meat for their die-hard supporters.

[Asturias56]

Only 8% of voters aged 18 were going to vote Conservative BEFORE they announced this "policy" - as Deadpan says it's a simple sop to their core (ie over 65) voters

Expect a Royal Commission on the Restitution of hanging and flogging mid June

[langleybaston]

Wot, theres me thinking it was a carefully considered policy following months of analysis and consultation with service chiefs, not an offcut of red meat for their die-hard supporters.

One beef animal should provide enough meat for the remaining die-hards ...... and each would get a decent meal.

[dead_pan]

The question is, if we are indeed facing an existential threat as some of you believe, why have the Tories come up with a policy which is in effect D of E with optional bayonets?

[trinity20]

I imagine hardened socialists have a problem with the "Duke of Edinburgh" scheme - now if it was called the "Karl Marx" (or even the "Watt Tyler") scheme it would have greater appeal.
Are these imaginary socialists in the room with you right now?

[anson harris]

The question is, if we are indeed facing an existential threat as some of you believe, why have the Tories come up with a policy which is in effect D of E with optional bayonets?

Umm, have you been out of the country for 14 years?

[ZFT]

Since when do manifestos mean anything? Always conveniently ignored/forgotten once in power.

[beamer]

Well, I'm over 65 and a core Conservative voter. Voted Blue all my life but cannot bring myself to do so this time around. The division and corruption in this once great Party is beyond belief.

I have some sympathy with community service for the simple reason that it would get young people out into the world and maybe do some good - there are so many who are simply locked away playing computer games in their bedrooms. I'm sure the Military would not want a sudden influx of thousands of people but as far as I understand it the option to wear uniform would be purely voluntary.

My local MP - actually a good one - has decided to step down at five minutes notice despite having a safe seat if that is still possible.

Rishi says my State Pension will never be taxed - well, it already is as I had been prudent and boosted it !

Starmer and Reeves say no rise in taxes - mmmmm, how do they square that circle. Ah, I know, lets take a leaf out of Gordon Brown's book and have a go at Pensions.

So, no to Labour for me but who the hell do I vote for ? The LibDems are in La-La land as usual with their Tele Tubby friends. The Greens have my sympathy to an extent but are prepared to further wreck the economy to solve a problem which is more in the making of Russia, China, Brazil, India and the good old USA.

I guess they could always bring back Boris as he would attract more votes than Sunak.................but then again !

[Canary Boy]

I, also, am well over 65 and do not take favourably the notion pushed on here by some buffoons that we are susceptible to a half-baked manifesto item as a vote-grabber. We may be senior, but we still have active brain cells. Mostly. There most definitely is merit in promoting some sort of community service amongst the young, but this is hardly a new concept. As for the military aspect, poorly phrased, poorly explained and probably poorly thought-through. Shame, as a properly researched programme of military familiarisation, properly presented, would probably have been a goer, especially in the areas suggested for recruitment and if it increased the likelihood of a successful entry into one of the services then more attractive still.

[Expatrick]

Would it be easier (preferable) to require all State secondary schools to have a CCF?

[dead_pan]

An even easier and cheaper option would be to promote - and if necessary expand - the various cadet forces. And they do D of E...

[V_2]

I was surprised and saddened to see Sir Kier dismiss the national service plan as a “teenage dads army”. Surprised there appears to be little fall out. Whether you are for or against the scheme, in order just to get a cheap laugh, he has attacked in such a way that pays a huge disrespect to the many teenagers that sign up to our forces every year, let alone all the teenagers that have died in past conflicts. Close to 3/10 army recruits were under 18 in 2019, and it’s been as high as 44%. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/21/stretched-british-army-leaning-on-under-18s-to-fill-its-ranks#:~:text=The%20most%20recent%20official%20recruitment,o f%20recruitment%20into%20the%20ranks.

Does Starmer think this age group is just a cheap joke? Strange when he wants them to be able to vote (for him).

[ORAC]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x1158/image_10f3eac324af957528c27ed1fd9b61b8aefd6117.png

[SWBKCB]

Just listening to the Alastair Campbell/Rory Stewart podcast - apparently No 10 have apologised for nicking the idea from Rory's leadership campaign. Rory's policy was based on a system that works well in Norway and Sweden.

Both agree that it is basically a sound idea which has been sprung on everybody without any planning or detailed thought.

[Ninthace]

Any scheme requires detailed discussion refinement and costing, The first thing to agree would be the purpose of the scheme, which I suggest should be to increase the capability of our armed forces, not the personal development of 18 year olds.

[ORAC]

Any scheme requires detailed discussion refinement and costing
So far it’s not even a white paper - just a discussion paper proposing a Royal Commission to consider the idea and flesh it out.

​​​​​​​

[SWBKCB]

So far it’s not even a white paper - just a discussion paper proposing a Royal Commission to consider the idea and flesh it out.

or an election gimmick pushed out to distract attention when it could have been raised any time in the previous 14 years (shiny beads, shiny beads, look at the shiny beads).

[Ninthace]

So far it’s not even a white paper - just a discussion paper proposing a Royal Commission to consider the idea and flesh it out.

​​​​​​​
Zero substance in pursuit of a headline, eh?

[skua]

That it is floated at the same time as reducing the Army to c 79k shows how risible it is. There will be infantry NCOs cursing not so quietly about how they might be further stretched into training 18 year old numpties who would prefer to be ogling their mobiles.

[Ninthace]

30k commissioned 18 year olds in an Army of 74k? Even a Royal Commission will struggle with that.

[anson harris]

Any scheme requires detailed discussion refinement and costing, The first thing to agree would be the purpose of the scheme, which I suggest should be to increase the capability of our armed forces, not the personal development of 18 year olds.

I can think of many better ways of doing it than this.

[Barksdale Boy]

30k commissioned 18 year olds in an Army of 74k? Even a Royal Commission will struggle with that.
I suspect that Rishi doesn't know the meaning of the word commission in its service context.