CX QoL - Schedules, Days off etc

[Jacanax]

Hey everyone, I’ve looked through this forum and I don’t see anything relatively up to date (post covid). I’m at a US regional and wondering what QoL and scheduling is like at CX. I would love to hear from different people on different fleets to get a good idea of what it’s like. How many days off do you get? Paid block time or trip duty rig? How does bidding work? Flight deck culture (laid back or super rigid)?

Thanks and happy flying!

[H21SE]

No trip or duty rigs. 25% play for deadhead. Working conditions can be changed at companies discretion.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/138667-cathay-closes-us-bases.html

Any current Cathay guys please correct me if any of my above info is incorrect.

BTW. AirlinePilot Central.com is looking for accurate information about Cathay’s COS if anyone is willing to contribute.
### In order to submit updates to the APC Airline Profiles, please send updates directly to Rickair7777 via Private Message (pmail). I will review and forward them to Internet Brands staff for posting.

Thanks.

[Hot High Heavy]

Scheduling is a bit of a mess at the moment. The company invested in JCR but are not really using it as it should be used and that in combination with a shortage of crew means that getting bids is a point of frustration for most people. it seems that most people struggle to get the bids that they want no matter how senior.
Aside from annual leave there are some mechanisms to get a bunch of guaranteed days off although these are limited in number per year. Apart from this, there’s not much control over your lifestyle at the moment and given how tightly people are rostered there’s not much scope to swap either so it’s a case of either working what you’re given or calling in sick. In response to this, the company is also heavily scrutinising sick leave. The system will generally roster minimum days off that are required for recovery etc.
We get paid on higher of rostered or actual block, no trip rig over here. So if you are on a 50 hour layover in Beijing for example, you will get paid the 7 or so hours block plus allowances.
The Airbus widebody guys are generally making extra money in extra flying pay at the moment although the guys on the 320 and Jumbo are stuck on minimum pay. Unfortunately you don’t have any control over which fleet you get allocated to.
Flight deck culture is generally quite good in the sense that most guys are pretty relaxed to fly with although it seems the vast majority are frustrated and unhappy with the current situation with the company and the fact that conditions were slashed in Covid and we are no longer on a contract. Checking and training can be a mixed bag, some really good guys as well as some pure checkers that can make life a bit difficult. The flight deck is also very diverse in terms of culture, I think we just clicked over about 50% local pilots now. Hope that helps.

[corporal klinger]

A330/350 : 9-10 days off, Block 100 hrs ish, mixed short/medium/long haul, hard work/high pay

A320: don't know, very small fleet yet, but most probably minimum dauys off 8-9, day flights short haul to China. Home almost every night. Think LCC roster, pay not sure.

B777: as widebody Airbus, slightly more long haul, a few days off more, a few hours/dollars less. 777X on order, might change ops.

B747: 15-20 days off, 30-60 hours, 6-12 overnights, typical Cargo ops, least pay but best for commuting/ days off.

Long haul is 4 crew

Fleet choice almost nil, lucky draw. Upgrade times vary depending on fleet. Currently (!!) 11 years 747, 6-7 Airbus. Mind you we lost 1000+ during Covid, when it was absolute hell to work here. do not take current time to upgrade as reference for yourself, abnormal situation right now.

Hotels mediocre, per diem depends on destination

Basic pay plus per diem plus 50% school fees plus modest 'housing" plus productivity above XX block hours. Threshold for productivity pay varies by fleet 38-48 hours ish, mind you can be changed with an email on Friday evening. All this is just a snapshot.

2-4 pay levelsl per rank, you move up after XXXX hours, if lucky 13 months salary plus a few weeks profit share.

No unions, no labor rights, no social security, no contract. Capitalist Disneyland. Being a manager here must be an absolute dream job, it does not get easier.

"Housing" will pay rent of a small 1-3 bed near airport, delending on rank. Buying is possible now without foreigner tax, but expect about 1500 USD/ square feet entry level(not a typo),Interest rate same as US, HK pegged to $.

A number of high priority off days requests per year, not sure about the latest rules, 4-6 days. Roster on the 15th, I normally get 50% of my requests, ish.Leave 30-42 days depending on rank. Mind you that leave will most certainly put you below productive pay threshold in that month, as will sick leave. the latter is now maximum 100 paid days I believe, then it is zero and you are on your own. You need extra insurance, about 2000-3000 USD a year to have unlimited coverage of doctors/hospital costs/ proper Lol.

15% fixed income tax, no capital gain, no VAT.

Groceries expensive (Western food), schools great but you need to go private, you don't need a car, public transport cheap.

Pollution can be a problem, but feels like it is improving. Beaches are mostly clean, water is mostly not, Some really beautiful country parks, great hiking, sailing. Golf very expensive, cheaper across the border/ Thailand etc. Lots of interesting short trips in the region on offer, very good flight connections available.Skiing best in Japan, but expensive.

Surprise, surprise, it helps a lot if you like Asian culture/food/environment/climate.Very hot and humid summer, spring/fall most pleasant. ID travel works well for mel, but no free commute as in US.

No political freedom, Hong Kong is another Chinese city now, just with lower tax and no internet censorship (yet).

Not a lot of experience in the right seat these days (no blame, just a fact). You really need to be on the ball in the left seat, days with ex-military 10000 hours F/O are gone.

Training/ checking attracts the usual characters, but in general slightly better than it used to be (which is not difficult).Expect a more formal atmosphere / slightly more pompous pr..cks compared to US. In general, the Western guys are of the type mercenary/ typical expat, the locals are locals and I personally find them pleasant to work with.

Most of expat pilots do not really like to live or to work here (personal observation), but grudgingly do it anyway for the money/lifestyle/ lack of alternatives. Except maybe the SA guys, who for obvious reasons find it an improvement to live here, plus more non-western expats incoming, I guess they will have a more positive view on things here as well. Flight deck atmosphere can be a bit taxing, a lot ( I mean really a LOT) of people complaining for hours on every flight (some for decades on pprune), but in the end they mostly stay and drag on. Many do not have the right passport in order to secure US mayors etc. Not a lot of Americans left, you would probably be the first new-joiner from US in years and make headlines.

No crew life if you don't speak Cantonese.
Night life/restaurants excellent but expensive. Less international vibe than it used to be, but still colourful.

Cantos are not known for being the warmest people on the planet, but in general I personally like them. Safe, no bs, straight, very efficient city (some will disagree, my personal opinion).

Many expats married with locals, incl pilots, lots of Eurasian kids around. The older Expat wives usually do not work, desperate housewives syndrome not uncommon. The younger generation is a bit different, they tend to have less traditional/ more employable wives. Live-in Helper for kids available, but mind you requires some extra living space.

[btrdux]

Probably the most accurate summary of CX and HKG I've read in a while.

Reading between the lines I'm also assuming OP is on a F1OPT/H1B/E3 and not a US PR...

[buggaluggs]

Well done Klinger, I think you accurately hit most of the 'highlights'. If you turn up here thinking it's going to be ANYTHING like flying in the States you're in for a significant shock, as noted the company can ( and does ! ) change any aspect of your employment at any time, with no notice! Commuting is for the most part a non starter due to roster density, very minimal to no control over your roster or days off. Broadly speaking, you have to turn up here prepared to adapt and fit in to the local ways of doing things, you have to make HK 'home' to survive long term, if you're constantly comparing to the Sates ( or elsewhere ), and can't wait to get back there, you'll be miserable for the duration!

[Zi Peng]

Economically, Having kids especially more than one makes a lot of difference. With the new contract a working wife makes definitely helps in my personal experience.
As far as crew life and speaking canto I still see people dating flight attendants so not really a barrier! A few of the local pilots tend to stay by themselves or amongst locals, the young and less travelled probably, but many guys are great and go out.
Flight deck culture is good on the 747 ….
No complaints about training either.
Company is totally anti pilot and constantly looking at ways to reduce your t&c and none of the pilot managers will lift a finger for their pilots should you need.
The previous post gives a very well balanced picture but listen to more opinions as it is all dictated by personal circumstances.
Do your due diligence, look at the expenses side and how long you plan to be here, not for everybody.

[jjmclure]

Hey everyone, I’ve looked through this forum and I don’t see anything relatively up to date (post covid). I’m at a US regional and wondering what QoL and scheduling is like at CX. I would love to hear from different people on different fleets to get a good idea of what it’s like. How many days off do you get? Paid block time or trip duty rig? How does bidding work? Flight deck culture (laid back or super rigid)?

Thanks and happy flying!
Don’t forget you’ll be paying US tax as well.
So as an FO on base, take out tax and 15k rent, you’ll be left with $5000 USD.

[corporal klinger]

F/O package at CX is below IRS reporting threshold, if at all only minimal tax.


I think pprune is broken. We all want facts, but most just try their best to BS and not to give any real info about own company, just vent or cherry pick.. waste of time

[Skippy69]

Feel free to elaborate?

[corporal klinger]

it takes 2 seconds to google the reporting threshold for taxable income outside the US.

[Climbpowder]

F/O package at CX is below IRS reporting threshold, if at all only minimal tax.


I think pprune is broken. We all want facts, but most just try their best to BS and not to give any real info about own company, just vent or cherry pick.. waste of time


Facts:

Taxable income threshold 132000 HKD
MPF tax exempted up to 18000 HKD
Rent deduction up to 100.000HKD
Marriage allowance 264000 HKD
Child Allowance 120000 HKD

https://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/tax/ind.htm
https://www.gov.hk/en/residents/taxes/salaries/allowances/deductions/index.htm
https://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/pdf/pam61e.pdf


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1249x574/image_cc947bc0e06041c8299d14d41d05cdc9ea76bccd.png
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1377x986/image_d72f4f5d0af4a0347346bab555a08039e29c8484.png

[corporal klinger]

You prove my point, distraction, lies...waste of time


For tax year 2024, the maximum exclusion is $126,500 per person. If two individuals are married, and both work abroad and meet either the bona fide residence test or the physical presence test, each one can choose the foreign earned income exclusion. Together, they can exclude as much as $253,000 for the 2024 tax year.

[KABOY]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1179x1108/img_0984_f7c1081519ce435c13fc30cc1ab09980a951481e.jpeg
For a guy who’s first post on prune was this, I’m really impressed at Klingers integrity. Want to start offering advice on how to get in now that you seem to have changed heart.

[corporal klinger]

KAboy, as usual you are missing the point. What does my 10 year old post prove or where is the relation? I did not say only post positive statements. If you are unhappy, post it. But don't lie. Was I always happy? Far from it. I am talking about posting lies, deception and deliberate false numbers and statements. The above claim "5000 net" is complete and utter BS. And I don't want people to join ( or not to join), I have no agenda, why on earth would it be relevant to me if someone joins or not? I have a few years left, completely irrelevant to me. I am giving neutral information best to my knowledge, the same I would like to receive from other companies, thats it.

Ask yourself: when did you last learn something on pprune? I say its broken Bye Bye

[jjmclure]

KAboy, as usual you are missing the point. What does my 10 year old post prove or where is the relation? I did not say only post positive statements. If you are unhappy, post it. But don't lie. Was I always happy? Far from it. I am talking about posting lies, deception and deliberate false numbers and statements. The above claim "5000 net" is complete and utter BS. And I don't want people to join ( or not to join), I have no agenda, why on earth would it be relevant to me if someone joins or not? I have a few years left, completely irrelevant to me. I am giving neutral information best to my knowledge, the same I would like to receive from other companies, thats it.

Ask yourself: when did you last learn something on pprune? I say its broken Bye Bye
Says it all, Klingon,
If you’re not paying tax, you’re not making money !
Anyway, Cx will be inundated with Pilots at the Dubai and US roadshows. When’s the Singapore roadshow, should be a hoot?
Face it, Cx is a donkey in a horse race !

Bye Lyle

[bored]

Stay in the US buddy.

[Jacanax]

Thank you to everyone who replied with constructive and useful information. It sounds like the worst part at CX for new applicants is the lack of choice in fleet which in turn can drastically affect your potential QoL. It’s kind of crazy to me that they can get away with 8-9 days off a month, must be very taxing on social life and especially if you have a family. At least training sounds better than HKExpress from what I’ve heard.

For context I have a green card but I’m originally from Hong Kong so I’ve been flirting with the idea of going back to CX simply to be closer to family instead of moving to a major. But I fully understand I’d be giving up alot contract wise/QoL/pay/union protection even compared to my Wholly Owned regional. I really hope things do get better slowly over at CX for those of you there. Hopefully those cadets come through fast enough to staff and QoL can get better. Although as of recently it seems like CX is having cadet issues at AeroGuard in the US….

[controlledrest]

Our Flight Time rules stipulate 1 day off in 7. The pilots think this 1 day off would be at home base, some time with family and friends. The company often roster this off down route during your layover.

If I had a green card I would NOT come to HKG and CX. Visit your family on days off and have them visit you in the States.

[swh]

Thank you to everyone who replied with constructive and useful information. It sounds like the worst part at CX for new applicants is the lack of choice in fleet which in turn can drastically affect your potential QoL. It’s kind of crazy to me that they can get away with 8-9 days off a month, must be very taxing on social life and especially if you have a family. At least training sounds better than HKExpress from what I’ve heard.

For context I have a green card but I’m originally from Hong Kong so I’ve been flirting with the idea of going back to CX simply to be closer to family instead of moving to a major. But I fully understand I’d be giving up alot contract wise/QoL/pay/union protection even compared to my Wholly Owned regional. I really hope things do get better slowly over at CX for those of you there. Hopefully those cadets come through fast enough to staff and QoL can get better. Although as of recently it seems like CX is having cadet issues at AeroGuard in the US….

Just keep in mind your day off will often start with a 11:30 pm finish the day before (probably not home until after 1 am), and then a 6 am start the day after. Same with leave, often will schedule right up to the limit, or use your leave as the recovery period from a long haul. More often than not will schedule a regulatory sim ride 6 am on the first day back after leave. This means you go into your leave heavily tired, and cannot forget about work as you have to study for the sim ride when you get back.

BTW you wont get paid to do your sim ride or ground training.

[Parceiro]

I am considering applying for DEFO training and would like to ask if anyone has the following information:


Salary during the training period
Monthly salary after check-out (assuming approximately 75 hours of BLK TIME)
Per diem


Thanks.