Iranian president's helicopter involved in a hard landing (aka crash)

[Beafer]

Sky Breaking news about the Iranian presidents helicopter involved in a hard landing.

https://news.sky.com/story/helicopter-carrying-irans-president-involved-in-hard-landing-state-media-13139305

[Eutychus]

Wasn't this an episode of Homeland?

[jimjim1]

"Sixteen rescue teams trying to reach Iran's president after helicopter accident"

Beginning to look more like one of those "smoking crater" hard landings than one of those "that'll buff right out" ones

[PC767]

Sky reporting suggests several helicopters in the convoy. I take it the terrain and weather was beyond stopping and helping. Did they even know he was missing until he didn't arrive?

[SWBKCB]

From the BBC - reported that Foreign Minister also on boardWhat we know so farA helicopter carrying President Ebrahim Raisi has had to make a "hard landing" after it got in difficulties, state media reports.

The details of what happened remain unclear, but here's a look at what we know so far:

According to local media, Raisi was heading to the city of Tabriz, in the north west of Iran, after returning from the border with Azerbaijan, where he opened the Qiz Qalasi and Khodaafarin dams
The helicopter was one of three travelling in a convoy
Iran's interior minister says rescuers are still trying to reach the site, but their efforts are being hampered by poor weather conditions
A reporter with Fars news agency says visibility in the mountainous and wooded area was down to only about five metres. The area is about 50km to the north of Tabriz


Ahmad Alirezabeigi, an Iranian MP for the city of Tabriz, says that emergency rescue workers have yet to find the location of the helicopter carrying the president
He says two other two helicopters in the convoy landed safely

[[email protected]]

Not just the weather that seems rather murky. Has he upset Mr Putrid recently?

[ATNotts]

The information released can't be relied on. If I was a betting man I would put a couple of quid on Mosad having a hand in whatever has happened. It will be really interesting to find out the actual circumstances when "the fog" clears.

Even more interesting is how the Supreme Leader reacts.

[scr1]

Thats what we're being told. As I said it'll be interesting tò see what the facts are.


Have a look at the TV pictures

[visibility3miles]

I’m not sure what worth “live reporting” has given that all it shows is fog.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-69035051?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

[WHBM]

Setting aside the political comments above, it does look like a repeat of the Polish President accident flight, where the leader, plus their officials, can think that their agreed schedule trumps normal aviation safety standards, and the crew end up carrying on regardless.

[charliegolf]

just another example of peer pressure to fly in s***e weather with an unfortunate outcome for the pilots, .

Quite. I was present when a fairly junior pilot on 230 Sqn, when pressed to press on, told an Air Commodore, "With respect Sir, I am the captain of this aircraft, and I will decide when the weather is ok." Nice one.

CG

[WHBM]

Presumably it is dark now and, in the apparent absence of detailed location data, nothing can be done until first light tomorrow.

[countertorque]

Was this a Bell 412? If so how are they able to keep this type serviceable?

[dalgetty]

I've often wondered how they keep their F-14s going...

[RatherBeFlying]

Could be a replay of the Kobe Bryant crash. Would be interesting to hear from the other two helicopter pilots, provided they are allowed to tell the facts.

[Ninthace]

I've often wondered how they keep their F-14s going...
Perhaps they are cleverer than propaganda suggests?

[Video Mixdown]

Perhaps they are cleverer than propaganda suggests?
You don’t need to be particularly clever to reverse engineer spare parts. Whether they will be of equal quality to genuine parts is another question.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Apparently the demise has been confirmed, military being deployed onto the streets of Tehran to control the inevitable anger and demonstrations.

[B2N2]

They did not.

But, two of three aircraft managed the weather to return safely home. The third just happened to contain two high profile people and did not make it. There has to be a question that this 'hard landing' was not necessarily weather related, but sabotage/third party intent related.

Doubt it.
The Mossad with a fog machine was a joke obviously.
If this was IMC with mountain obscuration you need some serious equipment that they likely didn’t have. Two got lucky and one didn’t.
With three helo’s you don’t fly the exact same track at the exact same time. They were probably spaced out a couple minutes or miles.
That can make a big difference in changing weather conditions.
They’re probably looking at a CFIT incident.
Maybe even tried a precautionary landing due to weather and got there a little bit earlier then anticipated.

[henra]

They’re probably looking at a CFIT incident.

In a helicopter without the latest and greatest gizmos chances are the C was missing in CFIT.

[Lonewolf_50]

For henra: you nailed that one.
For a few others:
We can do without the conspiracy theories.
The reference to the Kobe Bryant crash, and the many-times-told-story of "higher ups pushed the aircrew to go on and the aircrew did not/could not push back", fit with Occam's Razor pretty well.
Go back a few months; a CH-53 in California pressed on (my guess is a case of get-home-itis) and two other crews did not (https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/657452-usmc-ch-53e-missing-6-feb-24-a.html?highlight=Ch-53#post11592355). Discussed on Military Aviation forum as news came out. The crew who pressed on entered foul weather in mountainous terrain and crashed.
I didn't see anyone mention foreign agents involved in that one. :p

Not every aircraft commander has the backbone, or good sense, or combination of both demonstrated by the one @charliegolf mentioned in his post.

[NutLoose]

Was this a Bell 412? If so how are they able to keep this type serviceable?

Backward engineering, produce your own spares or smuggle them in through third party counties and people.

[thnarg]

These pre-revolution machines?

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x210/img_4607_89702fc3d1cca9fe59ed3f82ced4bb43391aed6d.jpeg

[TarsXenomorph]

A Sligo firm MacAviation were charged with trying to sell 17 helicopter engines to Iran in 2009

[Flyhighfirst]

The information released can't be relied on. If I was a betting man I would put a couple of quid on Mosad having a hand in whatever has happened. It will be really interesting to find out the actual circumstances when "the fog" clears.

Even more interesting is how the Supreme Leader reacts.

I can’t see it being Isreal. Too much risk, and precedent setting.

I would put my money on the IRGC or Quds force making a play for a semi coup. To install their own president.

then again it could also just have been an accident.

[NutLoose]

Iran are wheeling out the military across the country to try and keep a lid on it, in the meantime some obviously heartbroken and grieving citizens have been seen launching fireworks in mourning ermmmm Celebration.

https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1792249528529084675


​​​​​​​https://x.com/dom_lucre/status/1792249528529084675

[OvertHawk]

Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.

[DaveReidUK]

If I was a betting man I would put a couple of quid on Mossad having a hand in whatever has happened.

I think it's a bit premature to rule out a simple mechanical failure. The reported "hard landing" could well have been an autorotation not handled very well.

[meleagertoo]

Mechanical failure ! That's hilarious!
Brutal amoral dictatorial bigwig on board, subservient dupes flying, atrocious weather, terrain, unbreakable schedule - yet people still witter on about mechanical failure.

I ask you!

Good riddance to VERY bad rubbish. Insh'allah.

[Sea Plane Driver]

Mechanical failure ! That's hilarious!
Brutal amoral dictatorial bigwig on board, subservient dupes flying, atrocious weather, unbreakable schedule - yet people still witter on about mechanical failure.

I ask you!

Good riddance to VERY bad rubbish. Insh'allah.

Agree 110%..
I only wish the Supreme Leader has been onboard too, they could all have gone to see Allah together..:D

[NutLoose]

Agree 110%..
I only wish the Supreme Leader has been onboard too, they could all have gone to see Allah together..:D


As for heading off to Heaven, he appears to have been going in the wrong direction…. :E

[megan]

I've often wondered how they keep their F-14s goingInteresting doco investigating just that a while ago, agents in the US were buying up F-14 components that the military had put up for sale to the public. Left hand not knowing what the right was doing.

[visibility3miles]

From BBC:

Search teams have found the crash site of the helicopter carrying President Ebrahim Raisi, state TV says.The head of Iran's Red Crescent society has told state TV that the situation is not "good".

[Sea Plane Driver]

Iranian President Helicopter CrashHelicopter Carrying Iran’s President Is Found, State Media ReportsThe helicopter crashed in the country’s mountainous northwest on Sunday. Search and rescue teams scoured dense forest through rain and fog.

(From New York Times)

Another online source says “No signs of life.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/official-says-rescuers-see-helicopter-023159433.html

[Bob Viking]

Of course there is unlikely to be any proof that Mossad will have had any involvement but, my word the timing is suspicious. Accidents happen in aviation and I can well believe it was a genuine accident for whatever reason but this is going to make the cogs of conspiracy whirr.

For the record, because I know how people like to twist words on here, I don’t believe it was Mossad, I don’t want it to have been Mossad and I have precisely zero love for the regime of Iran.

BV

[reynoldsno1]

Was this a Bell 412
​​​​​​​From the photos I've seen, not enough blades - probably a Bell 214.

[Pearly White]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-69035051?src_origin=BBCS_BBC

[Old Farang]

It is being reported that a helicopter has crashed in Iran killing all on board.

Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi and foreign minister killed in helicopter crash - ABC News (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-20/iran-president-ebrahim-raisi-helicopter-crash-no-sign-of-life/103869052)

The photo is definetly not a B212 as claimed!

[happyjack]

Bell 205. A straightforward CFIT, why a conspiracy? A helicopter flying in mountainous terrain in fog/low cloud? Doh!

[jimjim1]

From the photos I've seen, not enough blades - probably a Bell 214.

I saw somewhere a purported list of the three aircraft used for the trip. They were all the same type and were 49-52 years old, is all I can recall.

I got the impression that they were basically Hueys but I am no helicopter expert.

EDIT:
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/388106
The helicopter that flew President Raisi is a "Bell 412" (6-9221)

EDIT2::
"introduction in 1979"
So not so old.

[happyjack]

Abbey Road. That is clearly a fixed wing aircraft!
This from this morning's DM...


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/964x542/71f5dfb5_b437_4629_87d1_67555f9e7ba0_7ca575cb68436ec6ef98560 f8741036155b8925e.jpeg

[DaveReidUK]

Mechanical failure ! That's hilarious!
Brutal amoral dictatorial bigwig on board, subservient dupes flying, atrocious weather, unbreakable schedule - yet people still witter on about mechanical failure.

I'm impressed at your ability to rule out any possible cause scenario while we wait for evidence.

Probably best not to give up the day job yet, though.

[ORAC]

Poor quality video of crash site and local area showing terrain.

https://x.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1792416254340321674?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x1158/image_c0dc0861afb1b8152f1602ad3e5cf3baebade866.png

[Nick Strange]

Looks like 412 blade in the wreckage

[Simplythebeast]

Well they got one thing right, it was certainly a hard landing.

[PC767]

Bell 205. A straightforward CFIT, why a conspiracy? A helicopter flying in mountainous terrain in fog/low cloud? Doh!

As the story first broke with very little information it was reasonsble to question every possibiliy. With more information it is obvious that different possibilies can be quickly be discounted. Yes CFIT is most likely but an open mind will not discount mechanical failure or an emergency landing gone wrong just yet.

[Blackhawk9]

Iranian VIP Sqn has 2 x 412's and possibly 4 x 212's in the Blue VIP scheme, file footage on TV is of a 212 but the crashed machine may be one of the 2 x 412's they operate.

[yarrayarra]

Quite. I was present when a fairly junior pilot on 230 Sqn, when pressed to press on, told an Air Commodore, "With respect Sir, I am the captain of this aircraft, and I will decide when the weather is ok." Nice one.

CG
I was a controller at a non radar airport in the late 70s when we had operational control and had closed the airport due vis 200 in fog. VIP BAC111 with then Australian PM on board said he had a “green ticket” and required the ILS. I suggested that if a “higher authority” gave him the OK and indemnified me from breaking my authority as the controller, then I would approve the approach with conditions below minima (300ft 1200 RVR). A couple of minutes later pilot advised diverting to Canberra. PIC poor judgement can occur in many various situations

[Pearly White]

I was a controller at a non radar airport in the late 70s
Wouldn't have been YWBL by any chance?

[Video Mixdown]

As the story first broke with very little information it was reasonsble to question every possibiliy. With more information it is obvious that different possibilies can be quickly be discounted. Yes CFIT is most likely but an open mind will not discount mechanical failure or an emergency landing gone wrong just yet.
There is rarely a single cause of an aircraft accident. Hitting the ground certainly destroyed the aircraft, but there can be any number of reasons why it did so.

[PPRuNeUser0221]

Unless it's on the Associated Press with a title reading "Associated Press reports..." then I don't believe ANY piece of news. Not Reuters, not NYT, not ANYONE.

The last bastion of great journalism with triple checks for verification. And btw, they reported it first yesterday circa 10 PM UK time that he was dead.

[Torquetalk]

Curious as to why they fly US product with the challenges sanctions must pose. Surely you can CFIT just as well in a Mil?

[clareprop]

Well they got one thing right, it was certainly a hard landing.

Well, anyone you walk away from...ah...oh...hang on a sec...

[hotzenplotz]

Alleged route of the turkish UAV finding the crash site:


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1229x552/moritbea8i1d1_3fe67a75251ed440b744b5f1498296f0e848a75c.png

[ORAC]

Partially true....

After finding the wreckage of the crashed helicopter of Iranian President Raisi, Turkish Bayraktar AKINCI UAV returned home & drew theTurkish flag 🇹🇷) on the map....

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x635/image_15c8d6a16a14d690bb4528db5bd20b01f35b0a1c.png

[keewee]

Yes, cheese & holes come to mind as with most/all incidents/accidents. Investigations by adequate bodies almost/always reach a conclusive determination of cause/effect (& notice the use of / !). Geo-politics will sadly play a part in this I'm sure.

[The Sultan]

Curious as to why they fly US product with the challenges sanctions must pose.

They are Agusta-Bell's from Italy.

[212man]

They are Agusta-Bell's from Italy.
That was my assumption, but doesn't address the PT-6 issue

[MissChief]

The information released can't be relied on. If I was a betting man I would put a couple of quid on Mosad having a hand in whatever has happened. It will be really interesting to find out the actual circumstances when "the fog" clears.

Even more interesting is how the Supreme Leader reacts.

Standard anti-Israel conspiracy theory. Thoughts on 9/11, perhaps? Please share.

[artee]

Standard anti-Israel conspiracy theory. Thoughts on 9/11, perhaps? Please share.
That was Mossad also. Do keep up! :)

[The Sultan]

As the PT6 is of Canadian origin and manufacturing that may not be an issue like a U.S. sourced engine.

[meleagertoo]

I'm impressed at your ability to rule out any possible cause scenario while we wait for evidence.

Probably best not to give up the day job yet, though.
I'm distinctly unimpressed by your unwillingness/inability to recognise that what looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck is vanishingly unlikely to be a bison, an alligator or a purple flying people eater.
Yes, we all understand that an utter pedant in utter 100% pedantry mode cannot 100% rule anything out until a cause is 'proved', not even mossad, aliens, meteorites or the salvation army.
However most of us are capable of recognising a duck when we see one without feeling the need to question our intelligence in such a way, nor do we make unnecessary snarky remarks about those who are capable of recognising the obvious for what it almost certainly is. No one is tryng to write the official accident report, merely commenting on the obvious that most of us can see.
Do I take it that once the Iranian "government" issues the official report you will swallow its findings and "evidence" 100%? Seriously??
This weird desire to divine/insert double-jeopardy in scenarios were once an utter nightmare once in the training world though our industry has pretty much eradicated such unrealistic (mal)practice a decade or two ago. Sadly, apparently, such fanciful notions live on in some places.
I do hope you're not an instructor...

[El Grifo]

Under starter's orders !
And the are OFF !!

[Ninthace]

Are we so sure of the quality of Iranian maintenance of an ageing airframe that component failure cannot be discounted as a contributory cause? The story broke as a hard landing, not as a lost contact (missing ac) announcement.

[Torquetalk]

Notwithstanding your observations Sultan, I would be quite surprised if Augusta and its parters did not feel the long arm of US trade restrictions.

[ORAC]

https://x.com/ericnewton2020/status/1792444532619104700?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
TSK just pulled a spectacular aerial surveillance coup over very sensitive Iranian military sites.

​​​​​​​ The AKINCI drone could have gone straight to the suspected crash zone, but flew over Amand rocket site, Khoi airport, Tabriz airport, also over the army's rapid response base…

[B2N2]

The story broke as a hard landing, not as a lost contact (missing ac) announcement.

Those who control the information control the narrative.
This gave the powers that be more time before the news of his expiration.

[Encyclo]

Just the facts:

In the early 1990s, following an International Court verdict, Bell was obligated to compensate Iran for unfinished business in Iran. Bell agreed to 'give' 4 X Bell 212 (new production, unsold ships in Mirabel) and also one Bell 206L4. They had a team come over to Mirabel for the inspection of these 5 helicopters. The team had more questions about AH-1J parts than they did about the ships they were in town to collect. Funny thing is there was a lot of RCMP presence in Mirabel at the time (disguised as surveyors) with optics to keep an eye on the team. After a number of missteps by the team, they were all gathered in a room and formally warned to stick to the delivery business and stop trying to get stuff they had no right to.

So when they packed up the An124 with these 5 ships, they also rolled in a motorhome filled with VCRs and microwave ovens, luxuries they could not get back home.

All in all, very cordial aviation folks.

I have tried to connect these Bell 212s, S/N 35XXX with the accident helicopter, but have not found a solid trace. There are also at least 2 Bell 412EP that made it into Iran after a detour through Mexico, so not only Agusta/Bell flying in Iran.

Iranian Registry (https://www.rotorspot.nl/current/ep.php)

Fly Safe, Always :ok:

[Ninthace]

It also may suggest the pilot managed to make a call before the ground intervened,
Nothing was known of the fate of the occupants until the wreck was found.

[Hokulea]

Do I take it that once the Iranian "government" issues the official report you will swallow its findings and "evidence" 100%? Seriously??
This weird desire to divine/insert double-jeopardy in scenarios were once an utter nightmare once in the training world though our industry has pretty much eradicated such unrealistic (mal)practice a decade or two ago. Sadly, apparently, such fanciful notions live on in some places.

Would anyone care to translate?

[Blackhawk9]

When I was in Iran 20 years ago they had huge overhaul facilities in Teheran, overhauling 214A/C's , UH-1's, AH-1J's, 206, 212's, CH-47, RH-53 and T-53, T-55 and PT-6 Twin pac's , I saw a few Bell build 212/412's though most were AB's. The Iranian's were smart when they ordered their machines in the 70's 214 and CH-47 ran T-55, AH-1J and AB212's ran Twin Pac's , also a few single engine Cobra's were "aquired" around the place these and UH-1's had T-53's.
The Iranian Helicopter facility is the biggest Helo O/H centre I have seen , bigger than Bell in Mirabel , probably on par in size to Airbus in France.

[DaveReidUK]

It also may suggest the pilot managed to make a call before the ground intervened,
Nothing was known of the fate of the occupants until the wreck was found.

Apparently it was hit by a duck. :O

[fitliker]

Never play with grenades in turbulence !

[bill fly]

So that was all about the machine. How about the cause?
Usual guff about bad weather and old parts being bandied about in the media.
Looks like a classic low flying accident to me. If it is true that two other choppers were in formation, it will be interesting to see how high they were operating - and under what flight rules.
Probably won't be too long before somebody accuses another country in the near East of sabotage etc. however...

[Lonewolf_50]

You have got to be kidding me. Still with the conspiracy theories?
As some of you keep tossing your inane conspiracy theories into this event, it surely belongs here in Jet Blast.
Now get a bit more inventive: The Balochis were behind this! :uhoh: Work that angle.
In Iran, separatist fighting has reportedly not gained as much ground as the conflict in Pakistan,but has grown and become more sectarian since 2012,with the majority-Sunni Baloch showing a greater degree of Salafist and anti-Shia ideology in their fight against the Shia-Islamist Iranian government. Separatist militants fighting in Iran demand more rights for ethnic Baloch living in Iran's Sistan and Baluchestan Province At least there are pictures of the helicopter scrap metal now, and it appears that the lack of survivors has been confirmed.

Cumulo granitus cloud formations sure are deadly.

[helichris]

Notwithstanding your observations Sultan, I would be quite surprised if Augusta and its parters did not feel the long arm of US trade restrictions.
So be surprised.

[Lonewolf_50]

Probably won't be too long before somebody accuses another country in the near East of sabotage etc. however... There are a number of half-wits doing just that in the Jet Blast thread on this topic.
Fly into the clouds near mountains, and accept the risk. Good point on the other two aircraft? How did they not end up in the same state?

[Video Mixdown]

Cumulo granitus cloud formations sure are deadly.
They certainly are, but the helicopter didn't encounter them all by itself. A chain of events took it to the crash site.

[langleybaston]

From a meteorologist's POV, reading of "heavy fog" [what?] and heavy rain, and looking at the early shots of vis., this looks like 8/8 Ns saturated from the terrain to perhaps 20,000 ft.
If that was the forecast [are there competent Met. services in the area?] then no captain I ever briefed would voluntariy take off. Looks like severe cockpit gradient and pressonitis to this SLF. I have no pity for the pax, but the crew may well have been between a rock and a hard place even before take-off.

[Lonewolf_50]

LB, I wonder what the other two aircrews are talking about this morning ...
At least one person had something nice to say about one of the dead, so he's got that going for him.

Russia's president met with Iranian ambassador Kazem Jalali late on Sunday, state media reported, after reports emerged a helicopter transporting President Ebrahim Raisi, 63, had crashed in heavy fog over mountains in Iran's East Azerbaijan province. All aboard, including Iran Foreign Minister Hossein Amir-Abdollahian, 60, are feared dead.

"Mr. Putin first addressed me and told that we were very saddened by the Iran president's helicopter accident and we will do whatever is necessary to help," Jalali told Islamic Republic News Agency, the official news agency of the Islamic Republic of Iran, in a report published early hours Monday.
{snip}

The aircraft was also carrying Tabriz Friday prayers leader Ayatollah Mohammed Ali Ale-Hashem, East Azerbaijan Governor-General Malek Rahmati and an unspecified number of guards and crew members.
The Russian leader said the Kremlin was "very worried and upset," {snip}
Russia has said it prepared two aircraft, 50 personnel and equipment to help.

The Kremlin on Monday published a statement from Putin expressing his "deepest condolences" to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Raisi made "an invaluable personal contribution to the development of good neighborly relations between our countries and made great efforts to bring them to the level of strategic partnership," he said.

"I had the opportunity to meet Seyed Ebrahim Raisi several times, and I will forever retain the fondest memory of this wonderful man," Putin added.

[Hokulea]

"The Kremlin on Monday published a statement from Putin expressing his "deepest condolences" to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Raisi made "an invaluable personal contribution to the development of good neighborly relations between our countries and made great efforts to bring them to the level of strategic partnership," he said.

"I had the opportunity to meet Seyed Ebrahim Raisi several times, and I will forever retain the fondest memory of this wonderful man," Putin added."

That's nice to see. One dangerous bullsh*t artist praising another.

[annakm]

"The Kremlin on Monday published a statement from Putin expressing his "deepest condolences" to Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.
Raisi made "an invaluable personal contribution to the development of good neighborly relations between our countries and made great efforts to bring them to the level of strategic partnership," he said.

"I had the opportunity to meet Seyed Ebrahim Raisi several times, and I will forever retain the fondest memory of this wonderful man," Putin added."

That's nice to see. One dangerous bullsh*t artist praising another.

And this tweet from Charles Michel, President of the European Council.

“The EU expresses its sincere condolences for the death of President Raisi and Foreign Minister Abdollahian, as well as other members of their delegation and crew in a helicopter accident. Our thoughts go to the families.“

The Butcher of Tehran was responsible for tens of thousands of executions of political prisoners and women. Not sure the condolences were necessary here.

[Lonewolf_50]

Heads of State are in their own little club.

[ORAC]

Ohh… wait - it is the Great Satan’s fault after all.

Because no one else in the world builds helicopters…..

https://x.com/yasminalombaert/status/1792502450974326798?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
Here we go.

The death of President Raisi "will be added to the list of US crimes against Iran," former Iranian FM Mohammad Javad Zarif said.

“One of the main culprits of yesterday’s tragedy is the United States, which ... embargoed the sale of aircraft and aviation parts to Iran and does not allow the people of Iran to enjoy good aviation facilities,” Zarif said. “These will be recorded in the list of US crimes against the Iranian people.”

Yes, put your leaders in a rattling old box in extremely bad weather and blame the US afterwards.

The bastards can enrich uranium for nuclear bombs, and produce kamikaze drones, but can’t produce their own parts for their planes.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x872/image_2e5dd38c7cbfae7f3a4b6129caae1f1fe7df9d14.png
​​​​​​​

[El Grifo]

“One of the main culprits of yesterday’s tragedy is the United States, which ... embargoed the sale of aircraft and aviation parts to Iran and does not allow the people of Iran to enjoy good aviation facilities,” Zarif said. “These will be recorded in the list of US crimes against the Iranian people.”

But hang on !!
If, as they believe, "everything is god's will" then surely it was sanctioned by the same ?

[Lonewolf_50]

Wait, aren't those helicopters Agusta Bell ones?
From a conversation on the Rotor Heads forum (summarized): Torquetalk : Curious as to why they fly US product with the challenges sanctions must pose.
The Sultan: They are Agusta-Bell's from Italy.
Torquetalk : That was my assumption, but doesn't address the PT-6 issue
The Sultan: As the PT6 is of Canadian origin and manufacturing that may not be an issue like a U.S. sourced engine.
As to more unhelpful rhetoric, the Telegraph article offers this (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-west-must-strike-now-and-collapse-the-iranian-regime/ar-BB1mIOBT?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=1187d5852386466fa7e8a611e21dc47e&ei=15):The West must strike now, and collapse the Iranian regimeStory by Mark Wallace, Kasra Aarabi | • 1h • 4 min read
{snip, get down to the unhelpful bit}
This is an opening that should be exploited. We must support the Iranian people’s democratic ambitions to bring an end to a regime that kills its own people, seeks to eradicate the world’s only Jewish state, and exports terror around the world.

Instead of offering condolences to the regime – as EU officials have shamelessly done – the West should be focusing on the Iranian people in its public diplomacy. It should be amplifying the calls of the Iranian people for an end to the Islamic Republic. Simultaneously, the U.S. government and its allies should consider covert operations – both cyber and kinetic – to exacerbate the divisions within the regime’s elite and embolden the Iranian people against the regime.

Make no mistake: the collapse of the Islamic Republic will be the single most liberating event (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/20/gold-surges-to-record-after-iran-president-killed-in-crash/) for the Iranian people, the Middle East and global security.
=============================

Ambassador Mark D. Wallace is the CEO of United Against Nuclear Iran and a former US Ambassador to the United Nations
Kasra Aarabi is Director of IRGC Research at United Against Nuclear Iran
Four words for you, Mr Former Ambassador: STFU.

[Krystal n chips]

I'm sure the BOI, or whatever the equivalent is, will be as open and transparent as the one about that "unfortunate accident " in Russia..."aircraft took off, then crashed, case closed ".

[sarabande]

"hard" landing ?

Earlier today, the press was saying one of the pax had survived for an hour. If he had a phone and was trying to raise the alarm, he would use the Farsi for "crash" which might translate out to "hard landing" in English ?

[Lonewolf_50]

Works for me. Cell reception up in the mountains can be dicey, so it may also have been a hard-to-understand transmission...

[meleagertoo]

"Crash' or 'hard landing' whatever. Sounds to me like no more than pointless obfuscation and unwillingness to be specific for fear of admitting the obvious.
As in 'the situation has developed not necessarily to our advantage' instead of 'we've been trashed'. (Hirohito, 1945)
There are even some of that mindset on this forum...

[John3775]

I wonder when the Supreme Leader will take his next chopper flight.

[Expatrick]

I wonder when the Supreme Leader will take his next chopper flight.

Doesn't need to, as Supreme Leader he goes by magic carpet.

[Xray4277]

Mechanical failure ! That's hilarious!
Brutal amoral dictatorial bigwig on board, subservient dupes flying, atrocious weather, terrain, unbreakable schedule - yet people still witter on about mechanical failure.

I ask you!

Good riddance to VERY bad rubbish. Insh'allah.

Hear hear. Current Iranian regime is a stain on the world. And as for blaming the USA because they would not supply spares - beyond ironic/hilarious! Perhaps the Iranians should have bought some helicopters from their big chum Putin.

[John3775]

Yeah it is bit baffling why Iran wouldn't have Russian made choppers. But then again, they may be more unreliable than 1970 Bells. The Iranian government can only blame themselves for this.

[nigelh]

I hear it could have been a midair with fixed wing that was following . May be wrong …

[nigelh]

As it was the president and a minister plus 3 crew , 2 assistants and 2 bodyguards they had a fixed wing follow it . But being Iran we will probably never get the truth .

[NutLoose]

"hard" landing ?

Earlier today, the press was saying one of the pax had survived for an hour. If he had a phone and was trying to raise the alarm, he would use the Farsi for "crash" which might translate out to "hard landing" in English ?

just let's hope it was Farsi, one would hate to think he went out quickly, far better for the tortured population of Iran to know that he died from a slow and painful death up on that mountain.
I never wish harm on anyone, but the odd individuals deserve what they get.

[Lonewolf_50]

Heads of State are in their own little club. As a way to underscore that observation:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOCn9epXMAAOrGp?format=jpg&name=medium

Source:
On the Death of Iranian President Raisi and Others in a Helicopter Crash - United States Department of State (https://www.state.gov/on-the-death-of-iranian-president-raisi-and-others-in-a-helicopter-crash/)

[Ninthace]

"hard" landing ?

Earlier today, the press was saying one of the pax had survived for an hour. If he had a phone and was trying to raise the alarm, he would use the Farsi for "crash" which might translate out to "hard landing" in English ?
How is your Farsi?
I only have access to on line translation software but the two phrases look different but I am not in a position to comment beyond that.

[DaveReidUK]

Yeah it is bit baffling why Iran wouldn't have Russian made choppers. But then again, they may be more unreliable than 1970 Bells. The Iranian government can only blame themselves for this.

Built in 1994.

[helispotter]

In this thread, various references have been made to the crashed helicopter (perhaps) being a Bell 205, 212, 214 or 412. More recent posts are consistently referring to it as a Bell 212, but some as an Agusta-Bell 212. ASN are currently indicating it to have been a (Canadian manufactured) Bell 212 with IIAF serial 6-9207 and construction number 35071: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/388106 (though seems from Post #41 that ASN at one point believed it to be a Bell 412).

Helis.com indicates it was originally registered C-GFNL built by Bell Helicopter Canada in 1994 before going to Iran and becoming 6-9207: https://www.helis.com/database/cn/43490/

Airliners.net has an earlier photo of it in camouflage scheme taken by A.Mahgoli in Iran in 2011: https://www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air-Force/Bell-212-Twin-Two-Twelve/1909097

If the photograph at https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/what-we-know-about-crashed-helicopter-carrying-irans-president-2024-05-20/ is indeed of it taking off on its accident flight, you can see what may be another Bell 212 (only main rotors visible) and some type of Mil(?) helicopter still on the ground. Perhaps they were the accompanying pair of helicopters?

[Captain Dart]

One satirical web site reported that the occupants were 'stoned to death by a mountain'.

[bill fly]

For those of you who are not professional pilots or otherwise in the industry, the term Hard Landing is used to describe an intentional landing which was too hard. ie. A landing at destination or alternate site.
As nobody intends to land on a steep rocky face in the middle of nowhere, it should be clear that the announcement was a time winning lie.

[uncle_maxwell]

Would like to hear heli pilots' opinion on two more potential factors - notwithstanding maintenance and CFIT:

Load: news reported that 9 people were on board. Doesn't that sound a bit much for this type? Could it limit performance, especially in mountainous terrain? (e.g. no option to climb out of fog etc.)
Icing: with fog in low temperatures, how quickly could icing become an issue? Any anti-ice/de-icing tech on this type?

[EEngr]

This was the president of a country involved (to some degree) in local hostilities. So did they employ local GPS jamming? Or fly without RAD-ALT or some other form of ground proximity warning system turned on?

[B2N2]

Now we’re getting ^^^^ to the interesting questions.

[212man]

This was the president of a country involved (to some degree) in local hostilities. So did they employ local GPS jamming? Or fly without RAD-ALT or some other form of ground proximity warning system turned on?
Not sure what the relevance of rad-alt being off would be? Regardless, it doesn’t help much with rising terrain (apart from indicating your imminent demise)

[nigelh]

2 hrs ago YouTube have. Raisi’s crash not accident … shocking new details .
if you find that you will see the fixed wing tail in the picture . Is this coincidence? It is the tail of the Police plane .

[malabo]

Somebody asked if the load was a factor or icing in fog.

No to both, 9 on board isn't a factor (I've had 17 plus myself, and two aux tanks, everyone got home). Conditions were not conducive to icing, plus the 212 can carry a pretty good jag of ice and gives lots of warning.

GPS and RadAlt? Apart from the FAA 5G conspiracy on RadAlt, I've never seen them bothered by it. And besides, as others pointed out it wouldn't be a reference instrument getting through a mountain pass. No GPS required, map reading and compass heading is sufficient.

I, and many others on this forum have flown in Iran with Iranian pilots. Some proudly told me they trained at Fort Rucker. They are no different than American or other national pilots that regularly stove serviceable aircraft into a mountain, regardless of how many gizmos on board. All helicopter pilots are brothers, my condolences to them whenever there's a loss. In any country.

[CGameProgrammerr]

My understanding is the photos of a fixed wing are completely unrelated to this accident and there's basically a hoax going around that those photos are of this accident. This was almost certainly a single-vehicle crash.

[lucille]

. No GPS required, map reading and compass heading is sufficient.

.

Does anyone map read these days? Since the advent of EFBs on a tablet, I doubt many would know how to,

[albatross]

Ohh… wait - it is the Great Satan’s fault after all.

Because no one else in the world builds helicopters…..

Here we go.

The death of President Raisi "will be added to the list of US crimes against Iran," former Iranian FM Mohammad Javad Zarif said.

“One of the main culprits of yesterday’s tragedy is the United States, which ... embargoed the sale of aircraft and aviation parts to Iran and does not allow the people of Iran to enjoy good aviation facilities,” Zarif said. “These will be recorded in the list of US crimes against the Iranian people.”

Yes, put your leaders in a rattling old box in extremely bad weather and blame the US afterwards.

The bastards can enrich uranium for nuclear bombs, and produce kamikaze drones, but can’t produce their own parts for their planes.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1158x872/image_2e5dd38c7cbfae7f3a4b6129caae1f1fe7df9d14.png

All the spares in the world aren’t going to help if you CFIT into a mountain.

I assume the crew were under a lot of pressure to complete the flight.

The Iranians will blame everybody but themselves for this accident.

[EEngr]

Not sure what the relevance of rad-alt being off would be? Regardless, it doesn’t help much with rising terrain (apart from indicating your imminent demise)

Let me rephrase that. Any terrain aviodance systems that might have been switched off for operations security purposes? Or spoofed/jammed to cause a crash?

[homonculus]

Yes, pilots' self determination system.

What would have happened if they had told this dreadful butcher that they weren't lifting because of fog?

Condolences to the front seat occupants.

[Lonewolf_50]

I think they have figured it out: the helicopter was hit by a space laser! :}
Fact check: Was Raisi's helicopter hit by a space laser? (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fact-check-was-raisi-s-helicopter-hit-by-a-space-laser/ar-BB1mQsUt?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=89c4f70ce4944568b51903e34072040a&ei=5)
The internet never fails to disappoint. :p
Claim: "The president of Iran obviously had his helicopter shot out of the sky by a space laser!" wrote one user on the platform X, formerly Twitter. {snip} The X post has more than 29 million views at the time of this article's publication (at the time of archiving, the post had roughly 24.5 million views).

DW fact check: False.





(This post is intended to be light hearted, and not intended to trivialize the loss of the aircraft or crew).

[tdracer]

This one made me laugh...
Jews Announce They Have Developed Terraforming Machine That Can, Say, Quickly Build A Mountain In Front Of A Flying Helicopter

ISRAEL — In a statement completely unrelated to anything currently in the news, the Jews announced that they have developed a terraforming machine that can, say, quickly build a mountain in front of a flying helicopter.

Jews Announce They Have Developed Terraforming Machine That Can, Say, Quickly Build A Mountain In Front Of A Flying Helicopter | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/jews-announce-they-have-developed-terraforming-machine-that-can-say-quickly-build-a-mountain-in-front-of-a-flying-helicopter?utm_source=The%20Babylon%20Bee%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email)

Meanwhile:
Iranian President Asks Manager Of Paradise Where All The Virgins Are And If It'd Be Possible To Turn The Heat Down A Tad (https://babylonbee.com/news/iranian-president-asks-manager-of-paradise-where-all-the-virgins-are-and-if-itd-be-possible-to-turn-the-heat-down-a-tad)
"I was expecting more virgins…72 of them to be exact," Raisi commented. "And why is Jannah so hot? And who is that scary-looking man with the pointy ears and pitchfork laughing at me? This is supposed to be a garden of pleasure. Who should I talk to about all this?"​​​​​​​

​​​​​​​(This post is intended to be light hearted, and not intended to trivialize the loss of the aircraft or crew).
ditto...

[Xray4277]

This one made me laugh...




Jews Announce They Have Developed Terraforming Machine That Can, Say, Quickly Build A Mountain In Front Of A Flying Helicopter | Babylon Bee (https://babylonbee.com/news/jews-announce-they-have-developed-terraforming-machine-that-can-say-quickly-build-a-mountain-in-front-of-a-flying-helicopter?utm_source=The%20Babylon%20Bee%20Newsletter&utm_medium=email)

Meanwhile:
Iranian President Asks Manager Of Paradise Where All The Virgins Are And If It'd Be Possible To Turn The Heat Down A Tad (https://babylonbee.com/news/iranian-president-asks-manager-of-paradise-where-all-the-virgins-are-and-if-itd-be-possible-to-turn-the-heat-down-a-tad)



ditto...

Light-hearted may be the intention, but I do get tired of people who conflate "Jews" with "Israel" To poke fun at, condemn or criticise Israel is not anti-Semitic, but the use of the word 'Jews' in the above post seems to me to perpetuate the age-old myth of some sort of Jewish 'world order' conspiracy. And for clarification (a) I do realise that the person who posted the above was only quoting from elsewhere, and (b) I am neither Jewish or Israeli.

[jolihokistix]

Footage in the news of Ismail Haniyeh, the leader of Hamas, in the front row of visitors at the funeral of Raisi. All smiles, kisses and hugs.

[meleagertoo]

Never forget, there is no mention in the book regarding the sex/gender/orientation of the 72 virgins...
The truth may come as an unpleasant surprise - who knows?