Aircraft Batteries

[ericferret]

A number of years back we switched from Gill to Concorde because the Gills didn't seem to last.
We are now having to replace a Concorde at 18 months old over £400.
Aircraft system has been checked out for shorts to earth and is fine.
Seems that the quality is just not there.
Anyone else had problems!

[Jan Olieslagers]

I used a 17Ah Hunter to full satisfaction, for several years. Started at first try even after standing for several weeks in an unheated wintery hangar. I did however manually rotate the prop for a couple of turns first, to break the oil film and to pump up a bit of fuel.

[ edit: hint, indicating type of plane and engine might be helpful ]

[pulse1]

In 2007, I installed a sealed, lead acid battery recommended by a fellow aviator who sold caravans (permit aircraft). As far as I know it is still in the aircraft having spent 16 winters in cold, damp hangars with long breaks. One morning I discovered that someone had left something switched on and the battery was dead flat. Hand swinging started the engine and the battery does not seem to have suffered. The key is to turn the prop several times after switching on the fuel pump, as Jan recommends above. It always made me laugh when, on a frosty morning with several other mad aviators struggling to get their motors going, ours always started instantly. I could never understand why everybody didn't do it.

[ericferret]

In 2007, I installed a sealed, lead acid battery recommended by a fellow aviator who sold caravans (permit aircraft). As far as I know it is still in the aircraft having spent 16 winters in cold, damp hangars with long breaks. One morning I discovered that someone had left something switched on and the battery was dead flat. Hand swinging started the engine and the battery does not seem to have suffered. The key is to turn the prop several times after switching on the fuel pump, as Jan recommends above. It always made me laugh when, on a frosty morning with several other mad aviators struggling to get their motors going, ours always started instantly. I could never understand why everybody didn't do it.


This seems to be an issue, certified aircraft batteries don't last whatever extravagant claims for them are made.
Non certified batteries seem to perform better.
I know of certified aircraft flying with car batteries so I am not alone with the problem.
High cost and poor longevity do not sit well together.
Lithium batteries may be the answer although cost is higher again.
However a certified Lithium battery should be available for our aircraft this year.
If the new battery pegs out that will probably be the way forward.

[wrench1]

Anyone else had problems!
There is no reason you can't get 7+ years out of your Concorde provided your electrical system is up to spec and you follow the OEMs recommendations. The average service life of the Concordes among my previous customers varied from 6 to 11 years. While there are internal faults at times, regardless of OEM in my experience the vast majority of battery premature failures are electrical system or user induced.

Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.

Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?

[stevef]

Concur with wrench1.
Is the aircraft a Piper, by the way. There was a Service Bulletin many years ago about replacing the original aluminium battery leads with copper because of high resistances due to corrosion. I've changed one or two in the distant past because of that.

[ericferret]

There is no reason you can't get 7+ years out of your Concorde provided your electrical system is up to spec and you follow the OEMs recommendations. The average service life of the Concordes among my previous customers varied from 6 to 11 years. While there are internal faults at times, regardless of OEM in my experience the vast majority of battery premature failures are electrical system or user induced.

Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.

Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?

Parasitic drains investigated. New battery relay fitted as a precaution.
Has had a new voltage regulator and a new alternator recently.
Cap check failed!!!!.
We are operating no differently now from how we have been over the last 30 years.
New Concorde fitted today so I will give an update in a couple of years!!!!!!!!

[Piper.Classique]

If it's on a permit, get a lithium battery. Or get a reasonable quality automotive battery. If it's not on a permit spend money and leave on a maintainer charger between flights.

[wrench1]

New battery relay fitted as a precaution.
Has had a new voltage regulator and a new alternator recently.

FYI: Unfortunately throwing new parts at it without a legit reason seldom works. Either your electrical system is physically up to spec and you follow the OEM recommendations or not... regardless how you’ve been operating the aircraft. Even installing a new battery not in accordance with the OEM recommendations can start you off on the wrong footing. And considering you only got 18 months out of your last battery, I’d say you have one or more issues with your electrical system and/or how you maintain that battery. This is the same thing I’ve told many owners on my side with similar results. But its your money. Best of luck.

[POBJOY]

As alluded if you you fit and forget then they will 'drop off' regardless of price.
Problem is they can sit around for weeks and then the capacity may have dropped down so when you do turn up for a quick whiz about (and have done a walk around that checks every mortal system) 'that requires power on' by the time you go for a start it will struggle and possibly lead to a carb fire.
Depending on your 'parking/hangar' situation a simple solar charger may be an option but the truth is lack of use is not good and that goes for the engine.
Also it is not unusual for pilots not to know about the the need for 'pre heat' when the temp falls below a certain level. The engine/airframe manufacturer usually have a section about that in the handbook and it not surprising when you consider how much effort it requires to 'churn' the oil around in a stone cold donk.
When I had to operate a C180/182 in the winter (parked in the open) I found that 15-20 mins with a fan heater directed from below via the cowling gill (and possibly with temp muffs in the air intakes) made for an instant start and of course in the real cold weather flying world 'oil dilution' may be an option.
Batteries are like your health ' YOU have to look after it' !!!

[pulse1]

POBJOY said:
Also it is not unusual for pilots not to know about the the need for 'pre heat' when the temp falls below a certain level.

You are absolutely correct in my experience. I forgot to mention in my previous post that, in Winter, it was a vital part of the morning starting procedure. Trying to get fuel from a carburettor, up through a vertical, cold induction tube on an 0-200 was extremely difficult, setting up a case for over priming and risk of fire which did actually happen before we established our current procedure. As far as I could see, nobody else did this even after watching our regular, instant engine start while they struggled to get theirs going.

[421dog]

Went through a battery every year or so on a variety of twin Cessnas at $1000/pop. Spent a couple hundred bucks on a good battery minder, and my last one crapped out after 10 years. Buy it, install it and plug it in when it’s not in use.

[Maoraigh1]

We have power in our hangar, but rules now forbid using it unless present to monitor it.

[421dog]

We have power in our hangar, but rules now forbid using it unless present to monitor it.
buy a moving blanket and accidentally hide the cord underneath it . Those things pull less than 1 ampere at baseline…

[wrench1]

We have power in our hangar, but rules now forbid using it unless present to monitor it.
In hangars with no power or in situations as yours, and depending on the length of non-use, I would recommend to an owner to disconnect the battery at a minimum or remove the battery to an alternate location to maintain a proper state of charge. But even disconnected a battery will still discharge so for extended periods of non-use its better to remove it. As I recall that is still permited for an owner to perform on your side?

[caroberts]

We've certainly found the sealed Concorde batteries are much longer-lasting than the Gill batteries. The last Concorde failure after 5 years was almost certainly precipitated by an early-mortality voltage regulator after a few months of service. Also note that sometimes intelligent charging of a battery that has failed the capacity test can restore it to suitable performance.

[VictorGolf]

Apologies for resurrecting this thread but the Gill G-25 on my airaft has died after two years, due in the main part from not having been used due to weather and maintenance issues. It would appear I am not alone as several dealers are out of stock so I've taken the plunge and bought a Concorde RG25X. The thing is the dealer said It could go straight on to the aircraft from the box. The bumpf with the battery suggests several checks to be completed before use. Advice please.

[stevef]

They're pretty much an unpack, check for obvious case damage and install. You could check the voltage with a meter beforehand (should be 12.75 to 14.0 volts if I remember correctly) but they do come pre-charged and don't require maintenance. The important thing to remember (as with any battery) is the negative cable should be taken off first and put on last.
(stevef, retired aircraft engineer)

[VictorGolf]

Thanks Steve. That pretty much tallies with what the dealer said. I'll have to dig around and and find my voltmeter.

[wrench1]

The bumpf with the battery suggests several checks to be completed before use. Advice please.
To add, the Concorde Owners manual will give the battery voltage recommendations for prior to installation. Most Concorde vendors in the US will top-charge the battery when sold so that it will meet those recommended voltages. But it never hurts to double check. However, you may also want to verify your aircraft electrical system has no parasitic drains and that the charging system is adjusted to spec since the previous battery only lasted for 2 years. And if you find the aircraft doesn't fly often perhaps invest in a proper Concorde trickle charger to maintain the battery charge and health.

[VictorGolf]

Thanks Wrench. I'll bear your comments in mind.

[horizon flyer]

The AGM ( Advanced Glass Matt ) batteries in both aircraft and ground vehicles has been a bit of a disappointment and do not live up to the promise of long life with no maintenance and seem prone to sudden failure with no warning after about 3 years on average. The old wet cell chemistry lasted longer, if maintained.
I believe the problem in aircraft is the wrong type of lead acid battery is fitted i.e. one optimised for starting with high peak current theses type do not like sitting around a better type would be the cross between starter and leisure would give better autonomy if alternator failur. On Lithium batteries never fit a Lithium ion ( LiNMC) these can catch fire only fit LFP ( Lithium Iron Phosphate) these do not catch fire but they are still not direct drop ins as no manufacturer has redesigned any alternator regulators to match the voltage and charge profile of LFPs. If one is fitted the alternator must have over voltage shut down as the battery management system in the battery can under certain conditions disconnect it, this would cause alternator voltage to go wild destroying the electronics and the battery charge current max must be less than the alternator max amp output or it can fry it. A good source of info on lithiums is narrow boat, RV, and Solar PV companies and magazines as these are far ahead of aircraft in the usage of them.

[wrench1]

The AGM ( Advanced Glass Matt ) batteries in both aircraft and ground vehicles has been a bit of a disappointment and do not live up to the promise of long life with no maintenance and seem prone to sudden failure with no warning after about 3 years on average.
Interesting view. However that is no where near my experience as any battery that gives you only 3 years has either a factory defect, has in-service abuse, or the aircraft electrical system is not to spec regardless of battery chemistry.

And while each battery chemistry has their pros/cons, for your average private aircraft owner, an AGM battery provides the best bang for buck in general IMO with my recip customers averaging 7+ years life and turbine customers 5+ years.

But keep in mind, even a lithium battery will not last with abuse or a poor performing electrical system.