BA Salary - Transitioning LhFO to ShCpt

[EffectOne]

Hi all,

Currently mulling over whether to apply to BA (the usual story). Looking at the payscales on PPJN, can anyone explain how the salary transition operates in practice going from a long haul FO to short haul captain? Is anyone able to explain how the following hypothetical examples would work in practice?

Assumed 6 year fleet freeze as a SH FO on the 320. Salary at year 6 would be £74,845.

Example 1: At the end of year 6, freeze finishes and you successfully bid for a swap to a LH FO position. I assume you would transition into the year 7 LH FO salary scale (£80,711), not the year 1 LH FO salary scale (£65,909), otherwise no one would ever switch fleet from SH to LH.

Example 2: At the end of year 10 as a LH FO, you apply for and get your SH Cpt. If the way I assume example 1 works is accurate, you would at this point be on the year 10 pay scale for a LH FO, being £88,115. If you transitioned onto the year 1 payscale for a SH Cpt, you would be taking a pay cut down to £87,876, I can't imagine this is what happens in practice, so do you perhaps then start on the year 2 payscale for a SH Cpt to ensure you get a pay rise when transitioning? I guess the increase in BA's equivalent of sector pay would probably nudge your overall salary to higher than what it was as a LH FO.

If anyone could explain how these two examples would work in practice, and whether the Cpt at 10 years assumption is reasonable, I would appreciate it. I am the wrong side of 30 and, although I am fairly sure I would earn more money in the long run by staying where I am, not all factors are financial and I'm trying to ascertain just how much money I would lose over the course of my career by jumping to BA now.

Many thanks for any assistance.

[EMB-145LR]

In your example as a 10 year LH SFO you would slide across on to 10 year SH CA pay. You don't start again from the bottom of the scale.

[thetimesreader84]

Example 1: Correct.

Example 2: You transition to the Y10 Captain Salary. In BA you never go back down the pay scales, or overall seniority (but can go down on relative seniority if eg you transition to a fleet or status with many more senior pilots)

[RARA9]

Hi all,

Currently mulling over whether to apply to BA (the usual story). Looking at the payscales on PPJN, can anyone explain how the salary transition operates in practice going from a long haul FO to short haul captain? Is anyone able to explain how the following hypothetical examples would work in practice?

Assumed 6 year fleet freeze as a SH FO on the 320. Salary at year 6 would be £74,845.

Example 1: At the end of year 6, freeze finishes and you successfully bid for a swap to a LH FO position. I assume you would transition into the year 7 LH FO salary scale (£80,711), not the year 1 LH FO salary scale (£65,909), otherwise no one would ever switch fleet from SH to LH.

Example 2: At the end of year 10 as a LH FO, you apply for and get your SH Cpt. If the way I assume example 1 works is accurate, you would at this point be on the year 10 pay scale for a LH FO, being £88,115. If you transitioned onto the year 1 payscale for a SH Cpt, you would be taking a pay cut down to £87,876, I can't imagine this is what happens in practice, so do you perhaps then start on the year 2 payscale for a SH Cpt to ensure you get a pay rise when transitioning? I guess the increase in BA's equivalent of sector pay would probably nudge your overall salary to higher than what it was as a LH FO.

If anyone could explain how these two examples would work in practice, and whether the Cpt at 10 years assumption is reasonable, I would appreciate it. I am the wrong side of 30 and, although I am fairly sure I would earn more money in the long run by staying where I am, not all factors are financial and I'm trying to ascertain just how much money I would lose over the course of my career by jumping to BA now.

Many thanks for any assistance.


where are you now if you don’t mind me asking ?

[EffectOne]

where are you now if you don’t mind me asking ?

EZY

Joined in January 2020. So, while I am obviously lucky to still have a job given recent events, I have been here for 3.5 years and am still an SO. Getting frustrated with the company's sell of "yeah it's rubbish and considerably below market average until you're a captain, but once you get there it's all good", hence the mulling of a move. I am 35 though (second career) and so the decision isn't clear cut by any means.

[RARA9]

EZY

Joined in January 2020. So, while I am obviously lucky to still have a job given recent events, I have been here for 3.5 years and am still an SO. Getting frustrated with the company's sell of "yeah it's rubbish and considerably below market average until you're a captain, but once you get there it's all good", hence the mulling of a move. I am 35 though (second career) and so the decision isn't clear cut by any means.

that’s fair enough mate , I know it is funny at easy . I’m ex BA it’s decent for variety etc….

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

EZY

Joined in January 2020. So, while I am obviously lucky to still have a job given recent events, I have been here for 3.5 years and am still an SO. Getting frustrated with the company's sell of "yeah it's rubbish and considerably below market average until you're a captain, but once you get there it's all good", hence the mulling of a move. I am 35 though (second career) and so the decision isn't clear cut by any means.

“Once you get there…”

I’d be the first to admit the roster on the single aisle airbus can be a lot of work, particularly further down the seniority list, and weekends off are a pipe dream if you have kids which needs to be addressed…however BA offers, in my opinion anyway, far more than your current employer in the long term. If you join now in 5-6 years you’ll be looking at your command (maybe less but I wouldn’t hold my breath) or a jump across to Long Haul, which can offer a totally different lifestyle (which isn’t for everyone!) and an entirely new challenge to you, versus 30 years of more of the same. Yes time to command is exceedingly long on the big iron, but arguably as an FO/SFO you are treated very much as a grown up and many choose to stay there for lifestyle reasons. The beauty of BA is that you could try long haul, not like it, and jump back to your old fleet and not lose anything as other posters have mentioned. I’m not sure how leave/bidding works at EZY of course.

If you’re within an hour or so of LHR it is, in my opinion anyway, a good decision to join ASAP (seniority is everything) and you’d be welcomed with open arms.

Just my opinion (and arguably the blue chip has been in for a while) and worth exactly what you paid for it!

[Airbrake]

I was in your position many years ago in my mid 30s, and having been offered a 777 job at BA ultimately decided not to take it.
As has been highlighted seniority is everything at BA. Because of your age you will never get anywhere near the top of a long haul seniority list. If for example you took a long haul command when it came up you would probably be retiring no where near the top of the fleet seniority. Short haul may offer better progression but if that’s what you want the left hand seat at EasyJet and part time options later in life are not bad.
I’m sure the BA guys can give some better estimates for time to long haul command and the relevance of seniority on bidding and its impact on life style etc.

[3Greens]

I was in your position many years ago in my mid 30s, and having been offered a 777 job at BA ultimately decided not to take it.
As has been highlighted seniority is everything at BA. Because of your age you will never get anywhere near the top of a long haul seniority list. If for example you took a long haul command when it came up you would probably be retiring no where near the top of the fleet seniority. Short haul may offer better progression but if that’s what you want the left hand seat at EasyJet and part time options later in life are not bad.
I’m sure the BA guys can give some better estimates for time to long haul command and the relevance of seniority on bidding and its impact on life style etc.
time to LH command sits at approx 20years

[RPat01]

Regarding Salary scales, as far as I understand from the other thread, you keep your pay point and don’t slide back down to PP1 on the Captain scale. The Captain scale is approx 1.33x the your current FO PayPoint?


Again, I stand to be corrected on this.

[Lordflasheart]

Effect1 - I'm intrigued by your situation -

Age 35 - Still a Second Officer after 3 ½ years in EZY ?

May I please ask - How many stripes do you wear ? What sort of licence and Ops Certificate do you hold ?

Do you get to do take-offs and landings as part of a two-pilot regular line crew ?

Have I missed something ?

LFH

[RARA9]

Effect1 - I'm intrigued by your situation -

Age 35 - Still a Second Officer after 3 ½ years in EZY ?

May I please ask - How many stripes do you wear ? What sort of licence and Ops Certificate do you hold ?

Do you get to do take-offs and landings as part of a two-pilot regular line crew ?

Have I missed something ?

LFH


at easy it’s to do with how many hours you have , he also states it’s his second career.
2 stripes / probably not allowed near a A321

[Busdriver01]

Rank at easyjet is much about the company saving money as it is reflective of your actual job role. SO simply means you're under a certain number of hours (1250 when I was there). You were paid a basic salary but no sector pay. Upon reaching certain time in company and hours, you upgrade to FO where you are paid a higher basic salary and sector pay on top. 321 requirements I cant remember but it seemed arbitrary - basically if they had space to roster you a training flight on it, you were allowed to fly it. SOs fly the RHS with a regular captain and no FO present, and do c.50% of all the sectors as PF (obviously on a bad weather day the captain probably does more PF sectors but the general aim was half)

[Busdriver01]

To summarise, a 'second' officer at easyjet is a de-facto 'first' officer aboard the jet as there are only ever two pilots

[EffectOne]

Thank you everyone for the replies, which are valued and appreciated.

Effect1 - I'm intrigued by your situation -

Age 35 - Still a Second Officer after 3 ½ years in EZY ?

May I please ask - How many stripes do you wear ? What sort of licence and Ops Certificate do you hold ?

Do you get to do take-offs and landings as part of a two-pilot regular line crew ?

Have I missed something ?

LFH

As others have pointed out, the SO rank at EZY is a salary rank designed to save money and pay new cadets lower than average for two years. The uprank requirements to FO are 1,250 hours and 2 years, whichever comes last. I have 1,150 hours and have been here 3.5 years due to the pandemic taking two years worth of flying out of the time I have been with the company.

Functionally, SO, FO and SFO are the same rank at easyJet. The only difference between the roles is how much you get paid. 321 is available to SOs also. I think the soft limit internally is around 500 hours before you're eligible for the internal training (EZY likes you to do an internal bit of differences training before rostering you for 321 duties, given the lower pitch limits, etc).

[AIMINGHIGH123]

Thank you everyone for the replies, which are valued and appreciated.



As others have pointed out, the SO rank at EZY is a salary rank designed to save money and pay new cadets lower than average for two years. The uprank requirements to FO are 1,250 hours and 2 years, whichever comes last. I have 1,150 hours and have been here 3.5 years due to the pandemic taking two years worth of flying out of the time I have been with the company.

Functionally, SO, FO and SFO are the same rank at easyJet. The only difference between the roles is how much you get paid. 321 is available to SOs also. I think the soft limit internally is around 500 hours before you're eligible for the internal training (EZY likes you to do an internal bit of differences training before rostering you for 321 duties, given the lower pitch limits, etc).

Wait hold on that means according to PPJN SO Easyjet you only get £48918 all in?

To add more weight to the BA salary my lowest gross in the last 4 months at BA as year 1 has been just over £6k. Highest close to £7k with 0 overtime.
Yes Easy Captain salary is a big ££££ rise but as I said to others as FO at BA you are pulling on more. If PPJN is correct a lot more.

[EffectOne]

Wait hold on that means according to PPJN SO Easyjet you only get £48918 all in?

To add more weight to the BA salary my lowest gross in the last 4 months at BA as year 1 has been just over £6k. Highest close to £7k with 0 overtime.
Yes Easy Captain salary is a big ££££ rise but as I said to others as FO at BA you are pulling on more. If PPJN is correct a lot more.

That is correct.

[MachBrum]

Wait hold on that means according to PPJN SO Easyjet you only get £48918 all in?

To add more weight to the BA salary my lowest gross in the last 4 months at BA as year 1 has been just over £6k. Highest close to £7k with 0 overtime.
Yes Easy Captain salary is a big ££££ rise but as I said to others as FO at BA you are pulling on more. If PPJN is correct a lot more.

What is a junior Long Haul FO at BA typically pulling in, Net a month? I appreciate it will vary on trips but, what range are we talking?

[White Van Driver]

What is a junior Long Haul FO at BA typically pulling in, Net a month? I appreciate it will vary on trips but, what range are we talking?
£3800 net for a month with no flights
£5100 net for a full, busy month including allowances
£4500 net average month

[crazypilot]

Junior FO BA 777 - net approx £5500 / month at the moment with the potential for a lot more given the amount of overtime available to pick up.

Pension contribution from the company also 15% (plus 6% from you) so quite a lot more than I remember it being when I was at EZY.

[3Greens]

Junior FO BA 777 - net approx £5500 / month at the moment with the potential for a lot more given the amount of overtime available to pick up.

Pension contribution from the company also 15% (plus 6% from you) so quite a lot more than I remember it being when I was at EZY.
but you can’t pick that overtime up if you’re full time flying 5.5’trips a month. Not now c&p has been outlawed

[ToCatLady]

Any idea on the potential pay rise? Rumours of 15% (staggered) being rejected?

[3Greens]

Any idea on the potential pay rise? Rumours of 15% (staggered) being rejected?
no pay deal has been put to the pilots to even vote on yet

[MSN001]

How many years junior are you crazypilot? £5500 Net after a 6% salary sacrifice Pension contribution is a significant gross salary?
I assumed if I applied to BA DEP Longhaul I’d start on c.£66k gross / ~£3900 Net PCM?

[AIMINGHIGH123]

How many years junior are you crazypilot? £5500 Net after a 6% salary sacrifice Pension contribution is a significant gross salary?
I assumed if I applied to BA DEP Longhaul I’d start on c.£66k gross / ~£3900 Net PCM?

It’s £71k gross basic now. Add £20k easily on to that LH. Thats around £5k after tax even for year 1.
For reference my P60 year 1 SH was £87k without much overtime. This year will be 6 figures if the overtime continues.

[iFunFlyer]

It’s £71k gross basic now. Add £20k easily on to that LH. Thats around £5k after tax even for year 1.
For reference my P60 year 1 SH was £87k without much overtime. This year will be 6 figures if the overtime continues.

Got a few questions regarding this.

Is that 20k figure the flight pay or time away from base allowance?

From one of the recruitment pilots’ presentation on LinkedIn it states 81k salary for year 1 LH FO, which includes 12k flight pay.

Also regarding overtime. How much more is it per hour? if someone junior is doing 5-6 trips a month, they won’t be able to pick up any overtime I take it?

Thanks 👍🏼

[RexBanner]

Got a few questions regarding this.

Is that 20k figure the flight pay or time away from base allowance?

From one of the recruitment pilots’ presentation on LinkedIn it states 81k salary for year 1 LH FO, which includes 12k flight pay.

Also regarding overtime. How much more is it per hour? if someone junior is doing 5-6 trips a month, they won’t be able to pick up any overtime I take it?

Thanks 👍🏼

Overtime you will get 1.5 times the credited value of the trip, plus allowances (TAFB and Flying Pay) at the normal rate.

The 20K figure is Time away from Base and Flight pay combined but is actually on the lower end of the spectrum if not an underestimate (aiminghigh has himself alluded to this). Long Haul you are looking much much closer to £30k.

As of 1st June PP1 LH FO is £71,312 basic before you add on allowances, flight pay etc.

You can elect to work in your Duty Free Weeks and pick up Overtime trips in those which gets around the problem of not being able to pick up in the busy months. Whether your body or family will thank you for doing this is another matter…