"Hottest" helicopter out there?

[Thrust Augmentation]

Conveniently forgetting real world considerations, what the hottest, highest performing & best handling helicopter out there?

I haven't even sat in a helicopter, so know nothing beyond what I read on power, weight, heads & what not. 1st thought was something light & powerful like the MD 530F, AS350B3 or Bo 105, 2nd though was something heavier with a load of power like Lynx or AH-64, but I guess they just aren't as agile.

[jimf671]

B3 on Everest. :cool:

[212man]

Conveniently forgetting real world considerations, what the hottest, highest performing & best handling helicopter out there?

I haven't even sat in a helicopter, so know nothing beyond what I read on power, weight, heads & what not. 1st thought was something light & powerful like the MD 530F, AS350B3 or Bo 105, 2nd though was something heavier with a load of power like Lynx or AH-64, but I guess they just aren't as agile.


Lynx? There’ll be a few coffee stained keyboards out there now!

CH-47 must be a contender

[ApolloHeli]

The SA 315 B Lama holds the helicopter absolute altitude record of 40'814 ft, but I can't say if it still stands for lack of trying on anyone else's part.

All things considered, I'd say that nowadays nothing has more reserve power than an AS 350 B3e Squirrel, especially since the 2021 power upgrade.

[retreating blade]

CH47 HC1 had a VNE of 160 kts, I explored this limitation en-route RAF Gutersloh in I think 1983 trying to catch a Puma .going to the same destination. I was overhauling the Puma when I saw the airfield passing below. Quick power reduction took ages to slow down and late call finalls to land. Not many helicopters are able to maintain VNE straight and level!

[Thrust Augmentation]

CH-47 - While fast & powerful, does it have the agility & chuckability of the smaller contenders (have always thought of it as a fast HGV rather than something sporty)?

[ShyTorque]

CH47 HC1 had a VNE of 160 kts, I explored this limitation en-route RAF Gutersloh in I think 1983 trying to catch a Puma .going to the same destination. I was overhauling the Puma when I saw the airfield passing below. Quick power reduction took ages to slow down and late call finalls to land. Not many helicopters are able to maintain VNE straight and level!

Some A109s can do 168kts in S&L flight, which is the type’s VNE.

[[email protected]]

Whilst the Lynx isn't much good hot and high (better with T800 engines) it is still the world speed record holder - 216Kts (249 mph) set in 1986

Yes G-LYNX was modified but not by much - the military release to service for Mk 7 (no TOW booms) and 9 had a VNE of 156 Kts which was very achievable in level flight and could easily be exceeded if you weren't paying attention.

A light slick (no TOW booms) could sustain 3000 f/min RoC

[Ascend Charlie]

The hottest would be the EC-120.

All that glass and no ventilation, apart from a piddly fan that just blows in your eyes. No good in an Oz summer. My feet, in black shoes, were in direct sunlight and felt like they were on fire. Had to fly with left hand on cyclic and right hand trying to scoop air in through the piddly sliding window. Back seat pax were really suffering.

Had an S-76B at 185 kt briefly (Vne 155 kt) but that's another story.

[MENELAUS]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x503/4800f792_cb74_410d_81a5_3a808f763d28_96e5d92bf822486f126f655 36265171736352b35.jpeg

[SASless]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x213/chinook_claim_to_fame_june_1970_0314a6af27e48ab706917680c785 7e8136267813.jpeg
This was without any doubt the "hottest" helicopter I ever flew!

[jimmymc]

B3 Squirrel must be the most versatile and best performing machine out there, it does everything well.

[Agile]

B3 Squirrel must be the most versatile and best performing machine out there, it does everything well.
Yes the AS350B3 performance and usefullness wise is a wonderfull choice any day. But if you look throught it, its a lot of old technology that as aged well just because it was ahead of its time in the late 70s.
An H160 if way hotter if you look through the design and technologies that are being used.

[megan]

MENELAUS, have to agree for the sporty handling part, best ever.

[Hughes500]

If its handling then has to be between a 369D 341/2 or 105

[[email protected]]

Did I forget the aerobatic capabilities of the Lynx? Loops, barrel rolls, back flips etc - that is handling

[Thrust Augmentation]

Lynx? There’ll be a few coffee stained keyboards out there now!

This confuses me a bit, my naive view was that with a very reasonable power to weight ratio & at least what appears to be plenty of agility that it would be a contender of sorts?

The inner child say that it's it's the fastest & can go upside down - what else would you want.

[MENELAUS]

This confuses me a bit, my naive view was that with a very reasonable power to weight ratio & at least what appears to be plenty of agility that it would be a contender of sorts?

The inner child say that it's it's the fastest & can go upside down - what else would you want.

Upside down depended, to some extent, on the gearbox fitted. Briefly upside down might be a better description. And gutless hot and high. And in the days of the IFTU she had a propensity for tearing the tail boom and rotor off.
All that said a whole lot of fun; it was when they stopped leaking oil that you had to worry.

[212man]

This confuses me a bit, my naive view was that with a very reasonable power to weight ratio & at least what appears to be plenty of agility that it would be a contender of sorts?

The inner child say that it's it's the fastest & can go upside down - what else would you want.
I think it depends on how your criteria are interpreted. Normally, "hot and high" in aviation refers to high altitudes and above standard temperatures, but I can see that (in retrospect) you are probably using the term in a non-aviation manner and referring to 'fast and sporty'. So, in that case I accept the Lynx could be a contender! But, if you want to pick troops off a 15,000 ft mountain and it's +5 C (20 C above standard) then go for the Chinook!

One type that surprised me with its speed is the Mi35 (export version of Mi24 - Hind) - when flying EC155s in the Niger Delta, cruising at around 155 KTS TAS, the Nigerian Air Force Mi35s would overtake us with a significant advantage. Their ETAs suggested they were doing around 180 kts......

[TWT]

Did I forget the aerobatic capabilities of the Lynx? Loops, barrel rolls, back flips etc - that is handling

Saw the loops in Australia in the mid 1980's at the Adelaide F1 Grand Prix during a demonstration put on by the visiting RN

I didn't think it was possible until I saw it. Very impressive :)

[[email protected]]

MENELAUS - yes the later versions of the Lynx were mightily improved (Mk 7, 8 & 9) 3-pinion MRGB and a lot of plates riveted around the tail and it took the introduction of the T800 engines to give it any hot and high performance.

Briefly upside down is all you need, more important is positive G.

And absolutely lots of fun:ok:

[Thrust Augmentation]

I think it depends on how your criteria are interpreted. Normally, "hot and high" in aviation refers to high altitudes and above standard temperatures, but I can see that (in retrospect) you are probably using the term in a non-aviation manner and referring to 'fast and sporty'.

Hot as is powerful & quick, so yes "fast & sporty". A thrilling fun machine with power on tap that can skip the mountain extraction.


The K-MAX did come to mind as payload to weight is far higher than any of the others, but it's purpose & appearance suggests that it's not agile & might have balancing a golf ball on a broomstick type handling.

[MENELAUS]

Saw the loops in Australia in the mid 1980's at the Adelaide F1 Grand Prix during a demonstration put on by the visiting RN

I didn't think it was possible until I saw it. Very impressive :)

If it was an RN Lynx and he was looping the aircraft then I’m glad I didn’t get in the airframe afterwards. ! Verboten. May have been an Alcock ( query spelling ) roll ? Which we also used to do in the Gazelle. Could look close to a loop from the ground.

[MENELAUS]

MENELAUS - yes the later versions of the Lynx were mightily improved (Mk 7, 8 & 9) 3-pinion MRGB and a lot of plates riveted around the tail and it took the introduction of the T800 engines to give it any hot and high performance.

Briefly upside down is all you need, more important is positive G.

And absolutely lots of fun:ok:

I’d moved on to plank wing by that stage. Shame; I’d have loved to see the later iterations.

[Rotorbee]

There is only one GOAT helicopter in the aerobatics category and that is the BO105.
It also looks cool to me.
For ordinary mortals the best looking and coolest to fly is the H500 E & F. Or the H520.
I never thought the Enstroms are good looking.

[MENELAUS]

There is only one GOAT helicopter in the aerobatics category and that is the BO105.
It also looks cool to me.
For ordinary mortals the best looking and coolest to fly is the H500 E & F. Or the H520.
I never thought the Enstroms are good looking.

Can’t say I enjoyed the brief time I’ve had on the Hughes. Agreed, the Luftwaffe Bolkow display was just plain bonkers.

[Two's in]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x213/chinook_claim_to_fame_june_1970_0314a6af27e48ab706917680c785 7e8136267813.jpeg
This was without any doubt the "hottest" helicopter I ever flew!

Looks like you may have been a bit aggressive with the cabin heat, SASless?

[Two's in]

MENELAUS - yes the later versions of the Lynx were mightily improved (Mk 7, 8 & 9) 3-pinion MRGB and a lot of plates riveted around the tail and it took the introduction of the T800 engines to give it any hot and high performance.

Briefly upside down is all you need, more important is positive G.

And absolutely lots of fun:ok:

Quite agree, the later versions were pretty good from a handling point of view, but I also remember when you couldn't even get a Mk 1 Lynx over the 12 foot security fence on a hot summer's day in Germany without temp limiting. And before the T800s, the Lynx was always winning the "most engine oil deposited on a NATO partner's brand new dispersal" award.

[JohnDixson]

SAS, perhaps a number of folks looking at the picture of your Chinook think the front left is just in shadow, rather than toasted to a bit beyond well done.

[RVDT]

And the "sleeper" would be the H145 - BK117-D3?

[nomorehelosforme]

SAS, perhaps a number of folks looking at the picture of your Chinook think the front left is just in shadow, rather than toasted to a bit beyond well done.

SAS, I know I’m getting off thread but do you mind telling us what happened for your Chinook to end up looking like that.

[megan]

Recipient of a 50 cal round and cockpit fire.

[Sir Korsky]

Had an S-76B at 185 kt briefly (Vne 155 kt) but that's another story.

Come on, we know you're itching to tell us ! What happened Chas ?

[skadi]

Agreed, the Luftwaffe Bolkow display was just plain bonkers.

Army, not Luftwaffe ( Airforce ) 😉

skadi

[jimf671]

Whilst the Lynx isn't much good hot and high ... ... ...


Like every British helicopter it suffered navyitis, being regarded simply as a naval weapon system and never being imagined doing anything but wave-skimming. :rolleyes:

[Bell_ringer]

Isn’t the hottest helicopter the one with the worst air conditioning? :E

[SASless]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x218/chinook_footwell_view_outside__0f7517540b6e60031d42d8a68cbb6 6af7c62c1ff.jpeg


During the Cambodia Incursion late one afternoon having completed my appointed chores....I was approached by a 1st AirCav Pathfinder who begged me to fly three sling load sorties for him as his assigned Chinooks had all gone home due to the weather

I visually confirmed his loads were Ammo, Ammo/Water, and Ammo/water/food in that order and agreed to fly them as he was all but in tears over not being able to get his guys re-supplied and in real need.

Short version is there was a GCA at each end of the flight....one at the SF FOB and one at the location in Cambodia....with the plan being getting vectors and a GCA Approach at each end.

Half way there, while in/out of cloud with occasion sucker holes, in mountainous terrain.....the Bad Guys got involved and we got shot at by a .51 Cal and took a single hit....removing one fhe pedals from under my foot.

That severed some hydraulic lines and ignited a hydraulic fed fire turning the contents of the Utility Hydraulic system into a rather hot fire....being fanned with slipstream.

The flames passed back over the port side of the aircraft and burnt through the aluminum skin (and some of my own) and ignited some of the interior fabric lining of the cabin.

In time the fire died out as the contents of the system emptied....we jettisoned the sling load....did an IMC recovery to our takeoff point and I was taken. into the SF Camp to be rendered medical aid pending arrival of a Medieval Aircraft.

The close up photo of the pedal area shows some of the damage caused by the .51 Round......amazing how much power there is in such a thing even while 3-4,000 feet from the machine gun firing at you.

Another inch and I would not have any need to buy a full pair of sox.

The impact made a tremendous "Bang" and a lot of things happened all at once.

My left leg was jammed back under the seat, the aircraft really lurched about, and almost immediately flame enveloped the cockpit, making a hot greasy fire kind of noise....and my nomes flight suit and gloves began to burn away.

I recall seeing the backs of my hands bubble up and burst....which t has a way of focusing your thinking and you fall back upon your training and start earning. your flight pay.

Odd thing....we dealt with all of that without ever pulling out a checklist.

The entire crew.....five of us worked together and handled the problems.

Now....time for a big glass of Whisky and enjoy another beautiful Sun Set.

[MENELAUS]

Army, not Luftwaffe ( Airforce ) 😉

skadi

I stand corrected. Thank you

[nomorehelosforme]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x218/chinook_footwell_view_outside__0f7517540b6e60031d42d8a68cbb6 6af7c62c1ff.jpeg


During the Cambodia Incursion late one afternoon having completed my appointed chores....I was approached by a 1st AirCav Pathfinder who begged me to fly three sling load sorties for him as his assigned Chinooks had all gone home due to the weather

I visually confirmed his loads were Ammo, Ammo/Water, and Ammo/water/food in that order and agreed to fly them as he was all but in tears over not being able to get his guys re-supplied and in real need.

Short version is there was a GCA at each end of the flight....one at the SF FOB and one at the location in Cambodia....with the plan being getting vectors and a GCA Approach at each end.

Half way there, while in/out of cloud with occasion sucker holes, in mountainous terrain.....the Bad Guys got involved and we got shot at by a .51 Cal and took a single hit....removing one fhe pedals from under my foot.

That severed some hydraulic lines and ignited a hydraulic fed fire turning the contents of the Utility Hydraulic system into a rather hot fire....being fanned with slipstream.

The flames passed back over the port side of the aircraft and burnt through the aluminum skin (and some of my own) and ignited some of the interior fabric lining of the cabin.

In time the fire died out as the contents of the system emptied....we jettisoned the sling load....did an IMC recovery to our takeoff point and I was taken. into the SF Camp to be rendered medical aid pending arrival of a Medieval Aircraft.

The close up photo of the pedal area shows some of the damage caused by the .51 Round......amazing how much power there is in such a thing even while 3-4,000 feet from the machine gun firing at you.

Another inch and I would not have any need to buy a full pair of sox.

The impact made a tremendous "Bang" and a lot of things happened all at once.

My left leg was jammed back under the seat, the aircraft really lurched about, and almost immediately flame enveloped the cockpit, making a hot greasy fire kind of noise....and my nomes flight suit and gloves began to burn away.

I recall seeing the backs of my hands bubble up and burst....which t has a way of focusing your thinking and you fall back upon your training and start earning. your flight pay.

Odd thing....we dealt with all of that without ever pulling out a checklist.

The entire crew.....five of us worked together and handled the problems.

Now....time for a big glass of Whisky and enjoy another beautiful Sun Set.


Get another large Whisky, I’m sorry I asked what happened, that is horrific….

[megan]

I think SAS thus far wins the hottest helicopter out there prize

[USHEMSPILOT]

B3 Squirrel must be the most versatile and best performing machine out there, it does everything well.
Our company is moving to H125's from 407's out in the west, due to better performance when "hot and heavy"

[Thrust Augmentation]

Thanks for the input folks.

After much debate I've decided that when I do come into a vast sum of money it will be the MD500. Looks good, sounds good, goes good & crashes good - Low Level Hell & KiwiNedNZ's Kiwi 500 Fly In video sealed the deal.

[SASless]

A D or E model make for a fast ride.

I flew an E on a corporate gig and our passengers liked it

When I mentioned to the owner about how cramped the back seats were….he just laughed and he could care less as he did not intend to ride in the rear ever.

But he did…we had a Regional manager that was a really big guy….had to get a seat belt extender to fit him.

He could not fit into rear at all…..thus the Boss Fellah would ride in the rear on the flights the big guy did.

We positioned gravity feed elevated fuel tanks at each of our sawmills and used good filters and Number1 Clear Diesel to eliminate the need for n Aux Tank in the Aircraft. That gave us the ability to adjust the fuel load when working out of the mountain locations in the Summer months.

The one thing that sold me on the D over the C model was the Vne limit.

In cruise you could maintain cruise power and lower the nose and peg the Vne speed by adjusting the pitch angle of the aircraft…..but in the C it would require a collective change.

The only complete engine failure I experienced on a single engine helicopter was on a D model in Alaska.

I was quite lucky and landed without damage.

[SplineDrive]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x218/chinook_footwell_view_outside__0f7517540b6e60031d42d8a68cbb6 6af7c62c1ff.jpeg


During the Cambodia ...
...
The impact made a tremendous "Bang" and a lot of things happened all at once.

My left leg was jammed back under the seat, the aircraft really lurched about, and almost immediately flame enveloped the cockpit, making a hot greasy fire kind of noise....and my nomes flight suit and gloves began to burn away.

I recall seeing the backs of my hands bubble up and burst....which t has a way of focusing your thinking and you fall back upon your training and start earning. your flight pay.

Odd thing....we dealt with all of that without ever pulling out a checklist.

The entire crew.....five of us worked together and handled the problems.

Now....time for a big glass of Whisky and enjoy another beautiful Sun Set.

Definitely not the first description of an enemy induced helicopter hydraulic system fire I've heard from that conflict. Glad you weren't forced down in less friendly territory... hope you're enjoying another whiskey this afternoon.