Conditions for cadets

[yep_ok_whatever]

Looking to find some information on the existing conditions for new SOs who have come from the cadet program. I understand the pilot allowance plus some of the salary is deducted for a number of years to repay training costs? Can anyone clarify the details?

I also assume the $546,000 paid to cadets is deducted for training in the time at Polyu and FTA or AG?

apologies for coming to this forum rather than wannabes, felt the knowledge might be slightly superior here.

[Xwindldg]

Whatever the deal is that they tell you will be valid for about 5 minutes. It will then get changed in a way that costs you more money or time.

The “handbook” (formally known as a contract) has been getting amended almost weekly. You find out in a footnote on the weekly newsletter.

It’s so ridiculous that it’s actually funny.

[yep_ok_whatever]

Whatever the deal is that they tell you will be valid for about 5 minutes. It will then get changed in a way that costs you more money or time.

The “handbook” (formally known as a contract) has been getting amended almost weekly. You find out in a footnote on the weekly newsletter.

It’s so ridiculous that it’s actually funny.

I also read somewhere that there is a reduction to MPF contributions or something? Not sure of the veracity or details of that either.

[veryoldchinahand]

All information and contacts needed to answer your questions are on the website - be pro active and ask those at the airline who have the information that you need.
You are much more likely to accurate information from that as most on here have an axe to grind although you may find someone who will assist.
I regret that my information is too out of date to assist.

[PPRuNeUser0163]

All information and contacts needed to answer your questions are on the website - be pro active and ask those at the airline who have the information that you need.
You are much more likely to accurate information from that as most on here have an axe to grind although you may find someone who will assist.
I regret that my information is too out of date to assist.

no axe to grind, simply an understanding that living on cos18 which is constantly changeable in HK is untenable, even for a cadet pilot. There is a reason close to 1300 crew have disappeared off the seniority list in the past 2 years. I would suggest speaking to some of these people about what the conditions are like and why they left ( which by the way extend long beyond covid measures) not the ones who have stayed who have done 5-10 closed loops, are happy to sit for hours doing covid tests or didn’t see their families for months if not years all to help a company which refused to help and remunerate them appropriately.

[Xwindldg]

All information and contacts needed to answer your questions are on the website - be pro active and ask those at the airline who have the information that you need.
You are much more likely to accurate information from that as most on here have an axe to grind although you may find someone who will assist.
I regret that my information is too out of date to assist.

Haha that’s a good one! Most of the information being given here is very much more accurate than what you’d get from someone in the company whose position requires them to drink and spread the cool aid.

The people defending CX on here must either be in management or they are former A or B scalers who are minted and don’t really need the money anymore. That’s a fact!

[Rie]

COS18 for a SO is possible only as Cup Noodle Crew. You'll be shaked up in a tiny shoebox and just waiting that long 5-6 years for your FO upgrade just so you can get 1000hrs on the seat and leave to EY/EK/QR/whatever other expat job that will be better even with deteriorating conditions.

Just remember, SO time at CX is worthless to most other airlines. If Taiwan/China decide to "integrate" the HK game is over for good.

[Oli777]

A cadet by definition surely is 0 hours... So imagine being 20 years old and have completed your training, first job (and maybe your entire career) is with CX. Yes the salary isn't great at starting (actually whom I kidding, its very good! you're a cadet!) but blow my nuts I earned less than a store worker in my first job, and it wasn't flying 777's etc. If I could wind back to when I finished my training almost 30 years ago I should have applied.

If you're a cadet and thinking of applying, do it! There are almost no airlines in the world that will hire someone with 0 hours. You will learn so much and in 5-6 years when you're a first officer then that's great, and you can now start putting those real hours in the logbook and earning good cash.

Most cadets live at home with their parents anyway, so you'll be saving everything. And $500k isn't anything to turn your nose up at.

[cadet7000]

Looking to find some information on the existing conditions for new SOs who have come from the cadet program. I understand the pilot allowance plus some of the salary is deducted for a number of years to repay training costs? Can anyone clarify the details?

I also assume the $546,000 paid to cadets is deducted for training in the time at Polyu and FTA or AG?

apologies for coming to this forum rather than wannabes, felt the knowledge might be slightly superior here.

The monthly allowance is deducted for the first 3 years to cover approx. half of the training cost. No reduction to basic salary so take home is about $32,000 p/m. Productivity pay depends on fleet but not sure any recent cadets are reaching their minimum hours anyway. Assuming a full schedule the productivity pay would add another ~$20,000 p/m onto the basic

[Sqwak7700]

Hello, I’m wondering what living conditions on the RMS Titanic are like? Are the rooms comfortable? There seems to be a lot of vacancies with so many people boarding the lifeboats, so I’m thinking of packing up all my belongings and hopping aboard now that the bow is at the same level as my dinghy. They’ve even rolled out a band to welcome me aboard 😬

Side question: What do you do with the flag carrier of a country when that country ceases to exists??

[MENELAUS]

De facto flag carrier at that.

[Acepilothk99]

The monthly allowance is deducted for the first 3 years to cover approx. half of the training cost. No reduction to basic salary so take home is about $32,000 p/m. Productivity pay depends on fleet but not sure any recent cadets are reaching their minimum hours anyway. Assuming a full schedule the productivity pay would add another ~$20,000 p/m onto the basic
Exactly this^

[gowiththeflow]

The monthly allowance is deducted for the first 3 years to cover approx. half of the training cost. No reduction to basic salary so take home is about $32,000 p/m. Productivity pay depends on fleet but not sure any recent cadets are reaching their minimum hours anyway. Assuming a full schedule the productivity pay would add another ~$20,000 p/m onto the basic

Thank you for the info! Could I also ask you, if a cadet failed ground school or flight training, will CX require the individual to pay back half of the training cost?

[Acepilothk99]

Thank you for the info! Could I also ask you, if a cadet failed ground school or flight training, will CX require the individual to pay back half of the training cost?
That will be up to the company to decide but most cadets who failed training werent required to do so

[gowiththeflow]

That will be up to the company to decide but most cadets who failed training werent required to do so

Thank you! It is so funny, the Talent Acquisition Team is supposed to respond enquires from prospective applicants, instead, we have to come here and ask for help, it almost feels like they do not want to be bothered with any questions from anyone. It is such as turn off.

[Flying Clog]

THAT's the turnoff?

Wow. I could think of about a thousand other reasons to look elsewhere.

[raven11]

Talent Acquisition Team. Only someone ensconced in an Orwellian bubble could come up with this.

[Kitsune]

That should be the Talent and Wannabe Acquisition Team…

[PPRuNeUser0163]

THAT's the turnoff?

Wow. I could think of about a thousand other reasons to look elsewhere.

1300 and rapidly expanding at 1-2 pilots a day!

It’s a worry when you can’t even re activate 10-20% of your pilots who haven’t flown in 3 years.

[gowiththeflow]

Talent Acquisition Team. Only someone ensconced in an Orwellian bubble could come up with this.

Forgive me for asking but what’s the issue here? Many companies now have it’s own Talent Acquisition Department such as PwC, KPMG, Bloomberg etc..So I don’t really have a problem with it. Rather, I have problems with them being unresponsive.

[Bokpiel]

Haha that’s a good one! Most of the information being given here is very much more accurate than what you’d get from someone in the company whose position requires them to drink and spread the cool aid.

The people defending CX on here must either be in management or they are former A or B scalers who are minted and don’t really need the money anymore. That’s a fact!

You seriously think the guys who have been here the longest and who have seen their benefits being eroded away over decades are the ones actually defending CX??

[OZ4EVER]

The thread is titled Conditions for cadets, what about the conditions for FO's, Captains, Base training Captains, fleet office managers? The conditions for the entire airline is now so bad + you get the added bonus of endless punitive and disiplanary policies which are literally amended and added every other day.

[OneBarWonder]

You’ll be making about $32,000 HKD per month for the first three years and be bonded for six.
How you’re supposed to live on that in HKG unless you live at home with your parents or have a second income is beyond me.

For full disclosure, I myself was a cadet over 10 years ago but got paid nearly double that amount when I started and that was hard enough. Take into account inflation since then and do the maths.

You’ll be the lowest paid aircrew in the world.

[5.56NATO]

Hi everyone,

I would be more than grateful if you could shed some lights on the realistic career prospect for newly joined cadets.
I understand that there is a long queue ahead as many SOs did not get their flights before the borders reopened...and that the company currently lacks trainers to get the new guys operational as so many experienced and skilled pilots have left...
Following the 'normalcy' and resumption of air travels will the upgrade time for newly recruited SOs be shortened? Or...I should ask how long will it take for someone that is hired this year to finish all necessary training to be an operational SO, and to be considered FO upgrade?

Many thanks and best wishes to everyone here :)

[dingodyle]

Hi everyone,

I would be more than grateful if you could shed some lights on the realistic career prospect for newly joined cadets.
I understand that there is a long queue ahead as many SOs did not get their flights before the borders reopened...and that the company currently lacks trainers to get the new guys operational as so many experienced and skilled pilots have left...
Following the 'normalcy' and resumption of air travels will the upgrade time for newly recruited SOs be shortened? Or...I should ask how long will it take for someone that is hired this year to finish all necessary training to be an operational SO, and to be considered FO upgrade?

Many thanks and best wishes to everyone here :)

It's 7 years currently. That's 7 years from completed training and checked to line.

How it will change is anyone's guess, but it's trending to increase; training capacity is reducing with people leaving (especially trainers) with years to return to "normal" planned, but much more importantly the company has much higher incentive to keep people in Second Officer rank. The company is restructuring to fly 2x SO on long haul from 1x SO, so logically they need double the SOs and half the FOs. The evidence is that the 5 year maximum SO requiment is now gone. Plus SOs get paid less, and it's always cheaper and faster to train a direct hire a FO who skips the que.

[Boulanger]

It's 7 years currently. That's 7 years from completed training and checked to line.

How it will change is anyone's guess, but it's trending to increase; training capacity is reducing with people leaving (especially trainers) with years to return to "normal" planned, but much more importantly the company has much higher incentive to keep people in Second Officer rank. The company is restructuring to fly 2x SO on long haul from 1x SO, so logically they need double the SOs and half the FOs. The evidence is that the 5 year maximum SO requiment is now gone. Plus SOs get paid less, and it's always cheaper and faster to train a direct hire a FO who skips the que.

There is no longer a 5 year maximum limit.

The realistic career prospect for a new cadet is, unfortunately, not to expect any upgrade once online as an SO.

[dingodyle]

Yep it's the old flow through dilemma. For each SO upgraded is another that needs to be replaced. Direct hire FO completely solves this problem. If half the cockpit on a long haul are going to be SO now, they need more people in this rank and those people need to serve a very long time; the upgrade carrot will be their only motivation to wait it out.

Cadets with 0 hours have nowhere to go, as nobody (even Cathay) accepts the hours. 2x SO will make 7+ the norm, probably much longer even.

When SO was a transitional position of 2yrs and there was no Direct FO hiring, it made lots of sense. Now it's more of a career position in itself.
I guess if your goal is to be a career Cx pilot then it doesn't matter how long your an SO (minus the pay)

[7448]

100+ 7years SOs not upgrading anytime soon.
Cadets graduated 2 years ago’ haven’t started yet, won’t start anytime soon.
This is not my take, it is the company saying which menas it is probably worse.
Why would you join as a DEFO with no career prospect ? Unless you are desperate or need a new TR or really young and very single whishing to see Asia for a few years is beyond me.

[BBN RADAR]

Why would there be no career prospect for DEFOs?
Upgrades can now take place out of seniority, so you can definitely jump ahead of all those pesky SOs ahead of you on the "seniority list"

[controlledrest]

There are now Direct Entry Captains.

A 777 Capt who decided not to sign up for RA65 (a one time offer, never to be repeated), retired. He became a sim instructor. Now he is to rejoin as a 777 Capt, to be fast tracked back into training. He knows the GMA from their time at Ansett together....

So, he takes a command, thus shafting a SFO out of a Cmmnd, shafting a SO out of promotion to FO and shafting a GA pilot out of the dubious honour of joining CX, shafting a licence holder out of their first flying job....

[RAT Management]

There are now Direct Entry Captains.

A 777 Capt who decided not to sign up for RA65 (a one time offer, never to be repeated), retired. He became a sim instructor. Now he is to rejoin as a 777 Capt, to be fast tracked back into training. He knows the GMA from their time at Ansett together....

So, he takes a command, thus shafting a SFO out of a Cmmnd, shafting a SO out of promotion to FO and shafting a GA pilot out of the dubious honour of joining CX, shafting a licence holder out of their first flying job....
Shhhhhh! Don't tell anyone. It will affect the next people engagement survey!

[pill]

The GMA is from Ansett? That I would never have guessed. Always thought she was a product of a nastier school than that.

[Hellenic aviator]

There are now Direct Entry Captains.

A 777 Capt who decided not to sign up for RA65 (a one time offer, never to be repeated), retired. He became a sim instructor. Now he is to rejoin as a 777 Capt, to be fast tracked back into training. He knows the GMA from their time at Ansett together....

So, he takes a command, thus shafting a SFO out of a Cmmnd, shafting a SO out of promotion to FO and shafting a GA pilot out of the dubious honour of joining CX, shafting a licence holder out of their first flying job....


The antipodean phrase, “I’m alright Jack” 👍 springs to mind.

[Cunning_Stunt]

Antipodean? Really? Try the 1959 film starring Peter Sellers, Terry Thomas and Ian Carmichael. A British Lion production. Whence it started.