British Airways Direct Entry Pilot

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

I’m not sure if it’s been written here before but does anybody commute from GLA or EDI for either SH or LH?

How do you manage commuting when you’re on reserve?

Thanks

Plenty of commuters on both. Premier inn is the traditional method, combined with trying to get pre assigned trips from uncovered work.

[R T Jones]

Anyone been offered a 320 course recently?

[glidehigh]

I’m not sure if it’s been written here before but does anybody commute from GLA or EDI for either SH or LH?

How do you manage commuting when you’re on reserve?

Thanks

Many, many commute from Scotland, especially given the frequency of flights from GLA/EDI and even NCL. Very common on both SH and LH.

SH you have the added advantage of being able to bid for GLA/EDI night stops for an extra night at home, or the occasional trip originating/terminating there (which would ordinarily have a deadhead sector to LHR).

[topgunaviator]

Can anyone advise where A320 type rating training is held and for how long? Where do you do your base training?

[Heisenb3rg]

Any further info on the rumour of updated / renewed / restructured pay-scales? Surely if BA were going to do it to increase the number of applications, they'd want to make it obvious that's what they were doing to ensure a steady supply of applications?

[GS-Alpha]

The rumours I have heard, are that the driver for the pay negotiations has very little to do with wanting to attract more applicants.

[mrguy]

Can anyone advise where A320 type rating training is held and for how long? Where do you do your base training?

Based on what was said at a recent assessment day, a lot of type ratings are being done with L3 at Gatwick with some conversion sims back at BA afterwards.

[FACoff]

The rumours I have heard, are that the driver for the pay negotiations has very little to do with wanting to attract more applicants.

Possibly although I notice they’ve just extended both LH & SH recruitment for another month. They clearly aren’t getting the numbers they need.

[Plastic787]

Many, many commute from Scotland, especially given the frequency of flights from GLA/EDI and even NCL. Very common on both SH and LH.

SH you have the added advantage of being able to bid for GLA/EDI night stops for an extra night at home, or the occasional trip originating/terminating there (which would ordinarily have a deadhead sector to LHR).

Which sounds better on paper. In reality it’s more like stolen moments at home and can actually be more frustrating in its own way than being away from home for the duration of a block.

I would treat any potential pay negotiations with a huge dollop of salt. BA still has a huge industrial relations problem with its pilots it just doesn’t see the need to fix. They don’t want to pay us, simple as that. Our laughable bonus system negotiated this time around has the company needing to make something like a 16% margin just for us to get a measley couple of grand. As long as we have people doing overtime trips just for the allowances (yes this happens) they will not feel any need to remunerate more.

[FreeMyPlane]

Hi all

How long did it take for you to get the sim results?
Did you get an email or phone call?

[GS-Alpha]

I would treat any potential pay negotiations with a huge dollop of salt.
You might be making the assumption that a pay negotiation translates into a pay rise.

[ClearenceClarence]

Hi everyone. Can anybody give me an indication on what a typical roster is like for a low seniority FO on the 777? Also in terms of annual leave, are there any months that are quite hard to get leave in? Is it possible to get a long block of leave in a row? 2-3 weeks for example. Many thanks in advance.

[White Van Driver]

Hi everyone. Can anybody give me an indication on what a typical roster is like for a low seniority FO on the 777? Also in terms of annual leave, are there any months that are quite hard to get leave in? Is it possible to get a long block of leave in a row? 2-3 weeks for example. Many thanks in advance.

Have a look at my old posts on this thread but briefly an average full time month would be around 3x 3day trips plus 2x 4day trips. With either 2 or 3 days off between. Working most weekends.
Leave yes you can put your annual leave together to make a 2 week block which becomes 21 days with wrap days. Even longer is possible with duty free week or other tricks.

[ClearenceClarence]

Have a look at my old posts on this thread but briefly an average full time month would be around 3x 3day trips plus 2x 4day trips. With either 2 or 3 days off between. Working most weekends.
Leave yes you can put your annual leave together to make a 2 week block which becomes 21 days with wrap days. Even longer is possible with duty free week or other tricks.

Hi WVD, many thanks for your reply. Are there any months where it would be nigh on impossible for a low seniority FO to get leave within?

[White Van Driver]

Hi WVD, many thanks for your reply. Are there any months where it would be nigh on impossible for a low seniority FO to get leave within?
Leave is allocated by a points system. Low points for popular times (xmas, summer holidays) through to high points for unpopular periods (eg november). Iirc the points aggregate over a rolling 8 years so in your first few years you'll not get much in peak times but after a while you've got just as much a shot as anyone else.

[ClearenceClarence]

Leave is allocated by a points system. Low points for popular times (xmas, summer holidays) through to high points for unpopular periods (eg november). Iirc the points aggregate over a rolling 8 years so in your first few years you'll not get much in peak times but after a while you've got just as much a shot as anyone else.

Thank you for the info. Also are LGW trips quite hard to bid for?

[Busdriver01]

Hi everyone. Can anybody give me an indication on what a typical roster is like for a low seniority FO on the 777? Also in terms of annual leave, are there any months that are quite hard to get leave in? Is it possible to get a long block of leave in a row? 2-3 weeks for example. Many thanks in advance.
I hope you like the east coast ...!

[Basicsteve]

I hope you like the east coast ...!


777 is probably the worst fleet to be on as a junior , even after a few years seniority it’s still pretty rubbish.

[Plastic787]

in your first few years you'll not get much in peak times.

Definitely true for long haul where the demographic is a bit different but during my time on short haul I never failed to get peak summer leave right from the very beginning. I’m guessing because it was generally younger pilots without families in the main who were motivated to avoid going on leave when it’s school holidays or were trying to build points etc. Christmas was another story though.

Can anybody give me an indication on what a typical roster is like for a low seniority FO on the 777?

Two words. Absolutely brutal. I’d try to sugarcoat it but anyone would tell you the exact same (as evidenced above). Best bet if you can afford it would be trying to get 75% straight off the bat.

[hunterboy]

There is also the ability to ask for parental leave during the year if you can’t get the leave that you wanted. As long as you get in early, or are prepared to be waitlisted until CAP set the month before, you usually get it. Normally, BA are more than happy to get a pesky pilot off the books for a few weeks , even during peak holiday months. I usually managed 2 weeks parental leave in July or Aug .

[topgunaviator]

If you work overtime (more than 85 hours) in a month, are those hours banked so you can essentially drop trips in future months? How easy is it to drop a weekend shift for example?

[ClearenceClarence]

Thanks for the information lads/lasses, eye opening information for sure.

[White Van Driver]

If you work overtime (more than 85 hours) in a month, are those hours banked so you can essentially drop trips in future months? How easy is it to drop a weekend shift for example?

Depending on the type of overtime it is either banked hours to drop trips later (this is if you are rostered above cap or swap for a higher credit trip with another pilot). Or it can be payable as cash (if you take a trip that the company needs someone for in your days off, or trade up to a longer trip then the difference is payable).

It used to be really difficult to drop a trip over a weekend though I've managed it. The system has recently improved a bit though, which should make it easier to drop trips.

[White Van Driver]

Thank you for the info. Also are LGW trips quite hard to bid for?

They are pretty popular especially with the pilots near Gatwick. I've had my share of MCO, DOH and JFK all from gatwick without even bidding for them though. Anything nicer like UVF MRU PUJ though youll not see unless you swap or get called on reserve.

[topgunaviator]

Depending on the type of overtime it is either banked hours to drop trips later (this is if you are rostered above cap or swap for a higher credit trip with another pilot). Or it can be payable as cash (if you take a trip that the company needs someone for in your days off, or trade up to a longer trip then the difference is payable).

It used to be really difficult to drop a trip over a weekend though I've managed it. The system has recently improved a bit though, which should make it easier to drop trips.

thanks for that, any idea how far up seniority ladder of RHS SH you would need to be to get a sniff of some weekends off?

[White Van Driver]

thanks for that, any idea how far up seniority ladder of RHS SH you would need to be to get a sniff of some weekends off?
no i dont have any idea, others on here will though

[Plastic787]

Judging by May 777 rosters the first person I’ve seen on iBid who has got more than one full weekend off (excluding Part Time weeks or leave/duty free week) sits at just over 2700 on the MSL. That’s getting on for ten years of service and even then, it seems to be a bit of an anomaly. The first sniffs of a full weekend clear of work start appearing at my sort of seniority which is about a year after that sort of date of joining (or roughly 60% on the P77L list). Manage your expectations with achieving a full weekend, if you clear early on a Saturday that basically counts as far as I’m concerned. Likewise if you report late on a Sunday.

Ever so sorry just seen you said SH. Based on my unscientific eyeball method I would say roughly the same sort of point on P32L so between 60-70% on the list. Obviously that will happen way faster on SH, if it carries on like it is at the moment that might only be 18 months or less.

[topgunaviator]

Judging by May 777 rosters the first person I’ve seen on ibid who has got more than one full weekend off (excluding Part Time weeks or leave/duty free week) sits at just over 2700 on the MSL. That’s getting on for ten years of service and even then, it seems to be a bit of an anomaly. The first sniffs of a full weekend clear of work start appearing at my sort of seniority which is about a year after that sort of date of joining. Manage your expectations with achieving a full weekend, if you clear early on a Saturday that basically counts as far as I’m concerned. Likewise if you report late on a Sunday.

Good to know, thank you. Any idea about RHS SH?

[Busdriver01]

thanks for that, any idea how far up seniority ladder of RHS SH you would need to be to get a sniff of some weekends off?

Bit of a contentious issue actually - SH recently saw the introduction of 2 weekend days clear for all pilots in a full month, reduced to 1 or 0 if you have less available days on your roster (leave, part time etc) days are not necessarily together, just two individual days, so even at the bottom of the list in a fully available month you'll get those two days. a move in a good direction, however it does seem to have resulted in everyone in the bottom c.70% of the status working 3 weekends i.e even at 30% on the list, people are only getting one weekend off each month. which is way less good for obvious reasons. used to be able to get more weekend time off way lower on the list than that.

[topgunaviator]

Bit of a contentious issue actually - SH recently saw the introduction of 2 weekend days clear for all pilots in a full month, reduced to 1 or 0 if you have less available days on your roster (leave, part time etc) days are not necessarily together, just two individual days, so even at the bottom of the list in a fully available month you'll get those two days. a move in a good direction, however it does seem to have resulted in everyone in the bottom c.70% of the status working 3 weekends i.e even at 30% on the list, people are only getting one weekend off each month. which is way less good for obvious reasons. used to be able to get more weekend time off way lower on the list than that.

ah, for some reason I thought that was a captains only thing. Good to know FOs get that too. One would hope with recruitment the way it is currently getting 30% up the list won’t take too long.

[Busdriver01]

ah, for some reason I thought that was a captains only thing. Good to know FOs get that too. One would hope with recruitment the way it is currently getting 30% up the list won’t take too long.

I think the bigger issue is that getting to 40% is fairly quick relatively speaking but the next section is far slower because those at the top of the airbus have often chosen to stay put, so there aren't as many going off to LH from that group. Not quite sure how you fix it but you'd think generally speaking those in the middle section should be able to get 2 weekends off, but it doesnt seem to be happening.

[topgunaviator]

I think the bigger issue is that getting to 40% is fairly quick relatively speaking but the next section is far slower because those at the top of the airbus have often chosen to stay put, so there aren't as many going off to LH from that group. Not quite sure how you fix it but you'd think generally speaking those in the middle section should be able to get 2 weekends off, but it doesnt seem to be happening.

Understandable for those lifestyle driven, do you know when roughly those 40% up the list joined? I’m just trying to gauge timings in the current climate.

also to clarify, I assume when we talk about at 40% seniority we mean 60% off the top?

[Busdriver01]

Understandable for those lifestyle driven, do you know when roughly those 40% up the list joined? I’m just trying to gauge timings in the current climate.

also to clarify, I assume when we talk about at 40% seniority we mean 60% off the top?

1% = top of the list, been here the longest, 100% = newest person on the fleet bottom of the list. so 40% has been here a good while - probably c.5 years on SH airbus?

[topgunaviator]

1% = top of the list, been here the longest, 100% = newest person on the fleet bottom of the list. so 40% has been here a good while - probably c.5 years on SH airbus?

oh. I understand now. So currently those at 30% (very near the top, > 5 years service) are only getting 1 weekend off a month? :ooh:

[Busdriver01]

oh. I understand now. So currently those at 30% (very near the top, > 5 years service) are only getting 1 weekend off a month? :ooh:

May not be exactly 30% and there will be exceptions (if you bid for reserve that may get you an extra weekend) but yes, those roughly 30-40% are very often getting just 1 weekend off still

[topgunaviator]

May not be exactly 30% and there will be exceptions (if you bid for reserve that may get you an extra weekend) but yes, those roughly 30-40% are very often getting just 1 weekend off still

ah okay, I’m hoping that by specifically bidding for day trips, that may help the weekend off case, I assume most people bid for longer trips

[Busdriver01]

ah okay, I’m hoping that by specifically bidding for day trips, that may help the weekend off case, I assume most people bid for longer trips
Possibly, though its very varied. Just come in with your expectations set realistically about what JSS is and how it is working in reality at the moment. It may well take 4-5 years to see more than 1 weekend off per month, and then if you decide to move to a different fleet you're back to 100% on the new list ie the very bottom (or there abouts, they may have done a small amount of LH recruitment after you joined) - 'you're only junior once' is what everyone says - what they mean is 'you only have to be junior once'.

An example, a Captain on the A320 who joined 20 years ago is probably still only 40-45% on the list. If they then move to a LH fleet, they very likely drop back to the bottom of the list, or there abouts.

[Plastic787]

The biggest drop off is the guys near the top of the P77L list taking their command and going from their pick of five day Punta Canas and Cape Towns etc to then slogging it out to the east coast five times a month, with some carry out. Friend of mine is about to do this and I continually ask him if it’s worth it, you can certainly see why some people choose to stay put.

[Black Pudding]

topgunaviator Wants to be a pilot for BA but wants every weekend off.

[topgunaviator]

topgunaviator Wants to be a pilot for BA but wants every weekend off.

knew this was coming. Just trying to gauge how bidding works, and what to expect, not once did I say I wanted every weekend off. :ok:

[halbeir]

Is there a salary difference between LHR 320 and LGW 320 (Euroflyer)? LHR 69k basic plus addons seems like it would work out around 80-85 ish for a Y1 FO

[GS-Alpha]

Topgunaviator, the problem is there are plenty of other more senior pilots who have also come up with the many clever ways you might think of to try and maximise weekends off.

[mrguy]

Could anyone explain how rostering works during line training?

[yanny]

Training rostering is separate and you will be given a mix of day trips and nightstops, usually a 2 day 6 sector trip.

You don’t bid for it but generally training admin are pretty onside if you desperately need a day off, you can ask. Capacity for swapping things around might be limited due to the amount of line training going on at the moment.

[GS-Alpha]

You are unable to bid until after your final route check and consolidation are complete, therefore your line training roster is constructed for you. You may be able to contact training with the odd request, which they may try and accommodate if not too difficult.

[R T Jones]

When you say can’t bid, are you referring to just the flying lines? As in am I able to bid for fleet/seat changes from day 1 or only once line training is finished?
Also at which point do you get access to the leave system?

[mrguy]

Makes sense, thanks both.

[GS-Alpha]

When you say can’t bid, are you referring to just the flying lines? As in am I able to bid for fleet/seat changes from day 1 or only once line training is finished?
Also at which point do you get access to the leave system?
I meant just JSS for flying rosters.
Fleet/seat changes are done on an annual basis, so there will be no need for you to be worrying about that on day one, but if the bid window is open, you will have access.
Leave bidding is done during certain bid windows. Again, if the window is open, you will have access. The season you first join, the leave bidding process will have taken place long before, so you’ll be outside of the normal bidding process for it. I am not entirely sure how it works, but my guess is it is just allocated. You might be able to express some preference a bit like the training line preferences mentioned above. However no leave is allowed during a course or within its consolidation period (14 days short haul, 21 days long haul).

[R T Jones]

That’s really helpful GS-Alpha, thanks for the info.

[thetimesreader84]

The season you first join, the leave bidding process will have taken place long before, so you’ll be outside of the normal bidding process for it. I am not entirely sure how it works, but my guess is it is just allocated. You might be able to express some preference a bit like the training line preferences mentioned above.​​​​​​

This Is correct, but if you have specific requirements for leave, tell BA and they will try and accommodate you ("i need that week off to be best man at my brothers wedding" will usually get a better response than "i just fancied it as the flights were cheap"). When I joined I asked and crewing were kind enough to give me 10 days that overlapped a big family holiday over 1/2 term, which I probably wasn't entitled to but was very grateful for!

On a more general note, that's the best & worst thing about BA, if you find the right person in the right department, you can usually sort out anything, 99% of people just want to help & it's a big enough conpany that they can do it. But getting to that right person can be nigh on impossible at times, which makes it incredibly frustrating.

[Bah76f]

Fleet/seat changes are done on an annual basis, so there will be no need for you to be worrying about that on day one, but if the bid window is open, you will have access.
Any idea what the time frame is for the next bid window ?

[GS-Alpha]

If you don’t know the time frame, you don’t need to know it, so there’s very little point in me providing it, but as an example, the Winter 24/25 bid window closed half way through March, so you’re bidding a long way in advance of the season.

Anyone joining the company will be given full access to all of this information long before they actually need it, so I really wouldn’t worry about asking all of these admin questions.

[Bah76f]

Actually, it is very valuable to know this, and the ‘admin’ questions are valid.
Because it highlights the difference between promises made by recruitment, and reality….

[Bemgy]

Hi,
Anybody got any feedback for the interview stage? What sort of spanner in the works is thrown in?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Mucho Grassyass

[Busdriver01]

Actually, it is very valuable to know this, and the ‘admin’ questions are valid.
Because it highlights the difference between promises made by recruitment, and reality….

Rule number 1 is that recruitment can make essentially zero promises to you that can't be taken back or changed.

That said:

- Annual fleet/seat bid window is currently open for the 2025 training year, and usually closes towards the end of summer, with results out near xmas.

- If you join before it closes, you can bid (but don't hold your breath for achieving anything with that bid because you'll be frozen on the fleet you join on for at least 4-5 years (unless BA actually need you elsewhere, but that usually only happens the year before your freeze was due to expire anyway.)

- The exception to that is A320 command, which appears to have gone VERY junior in the last few bid outputs - if you meet the requirements for command and place a command bid, they may well unfreeze you for that. But again don't hold your breath for that.

- Join anticipating that you will serve your full freeze before moving fleet or seat, to avoid the stress/anger/upset/disappointment/whatever, would be my advice.

- Leave will be allocated to you seemingly at random when you first join, but there's a mechanism in place to swap your leave around after you join with weeks that have spaces available so you may well end up with what you want.

- Training rosters are written by training admin as others have said - again to manage expectations you should arrive on day 1 accepting that the next 6 weeks or so is not up to you as is the case in almost every other airline i can think of. Preferences can be made, but can't always be honoured.

- The monthly roster/line bid varies on the dates it opens and closes depending on the length of the month etc (and is for the following month - ie, the June roster bid gets going in a few days and closes in a couple of weeks, with results out a few days after that) but you'll be in induction and training long enough that you'll be able work out when you need to start bidding.

Hope that helps,

ATB and enjoy

[R T Jones]

Joining onto the 320, is there a freeze to get command if you have the hours already?

[GlassCollector]

For the sim assessment, is it right seat for your sector, or are you given a choice?

Regards

GC

[bylgw]

Joining onto the 320, is there a freeze to get command if you have the hours already?
how many hours do you have on type and in what capacity?

[The Foss]

Joining onto the 320, is there a freeze to get command if you have the hours already?
it should just be the minimum 12 months in the company requirement. Believe you can bid for it beforehand, you would just need the 12 months when you start the course

[GS-Alpha]

Joining onto the 320, is there a freeze to get command if you have the hours already?
With respect, you have asked this precise same question multiple times on this thread now, and you have consistently been given the answer of 12 months minimum experience in the company is required.

If you do not want to believe these answers, why don’t you just ask BA?

[ToCatLady]

This is quickly becoming the most repetitive thread on this whole forum. Can you PLEASE read the whole thread, use the search function and take a few minutes to do some research before you ask a question that’s been answered numerous times before!

You’ll have no hope of jumping through the recruitment hoops if you cannot be bothered to spend 5-10 minutes on here using a search function.

[takeoff320]

Hi all,
hope you are well.
have my sim coming coming up. Been through the thread and have a vague understanding of it. If anyone wouldn’t mind direct messaging me with further info that would truly be hugely appreciated !
best of luck :)

[ClearenceClarence]

Leave will be allocated to you seemingly at random when you first join, but there's a mechanism in place to swap your leave around after you join with weeks that have spaces available so you may well end up with what you want.

For roughly how long after joining would you have little control over the leave you want? I’m joining this summer on LH and there are some weeks in Q1-Q2 of 2025 I need. Is it unlikely for me to get the leave I want that soon? Thanks in advance.

[GS-Alpha]

Unlikely but not impossible.

[Busdriver01]

For roughly how long after joining would you have little control over the leave you want? I’m joining this summer on LH and there are some weeks in Q1-Q2 of 2025 I need. Is it unlikely for me to get the leave I want that soon? Thanks in advance.

As GS said, it's not impossible, but you'll need to be vigilant keeping an eye on the lists to see if a gap appears that you can then request. You should be in in time for S25 bid but dont hold me to that as I havent checked the dates for that bid yet and I dont know precisely when you join!

[hunterboy]

As I mentioned…if you have dependents, then dependents leave should be available, pretty much whenever you want it.

[ClearenceClarence]

As GS said, it's not impossible, but you'll need to be vigilant keeping an eye on the lists to see if a gap appears that you can then request. You should be in in time for S25 bid but dont hold me to that as I havent checked the dates for that bid yet and I dont know precisely when you join!

Would you happen to know when a new joiner gets access to these lists? As soon as you start or when you start line training?

[SkyRocket10]

As I mentioned…if you have dependents, then dependents leave should be available, pretty much whenever you want it.

Winter leave window up until Early April 2025 has closed. Summer leave window April onwards should open In July, close in August.

Parental leave on LH is almost impossible to get atm, especially in busier periods. Slots are limited and people submit applications 364 days in advance.

[hunterboy]

It does seem to be fleet dependent , and the last weeks I’ve achieved have been eventually awarded at CAP set, but they usually try to award it.

[LONFlyer]

Has anyone been offered a start date from the hold pool recently? Was you waiting long?

[SierraHotel83]

Has anyone been offered a start date from the hold pool recently? Was you waiting long?

I don’t think there is a hold pool!

[737driver320]

Been invited for the capacity, interview and HR exercise. Does anyone have any more information on how this day goes and any ways to prepare?

Also NTR for A320, should I expect an A380 sim? Any feedback on the sim assesment.

DM please!

Thanks!

[CAVOKpilot]

Hi All, I’m not asking about the capacity test I’m sure many of you will be pleased to hear…

I’m joining in September as non-type rated FO on the A320. Spoke to a couple of others joining and they’re under impression accommodation during the type rating phase isn’t provided. I’ve been told that it will be as technically away from base and on company time.

Anyone able to cast any light on this?

[GS-Alpha]

I would be very surprised if BA do not tell you the answer to this question in your course joining instructions. It will depend where your course is going to be.

[pilotHS24]

Where are type rating courses usually held? Are there multiple locations?

[mrguy]

Hi All, I’m not asking about the capacity test I’m sure many of you will be pleased to hear…

I’m joining in September as non-type rated FO on the A320. Spoke to a couple of others joining and they’re under impression accommodation during the type rating phase isn’t provided. I’ve been told that it will be as technically away from base and on company time.

Anyone able to cast any light on this?

Im in a similar situation myself. Based in what recent starter's have told me; if the type rating is done at L3 Gatwick then a hotel will be provided, if it's done at Heathrow then there won't be. It's just a question of where the course is going to happen, which I'm sure you will find out in due course.

[CAVOKpilot]

I would be very surprised if BA do not tell you the answer to this question in your course joining instructions. It will depend where your course is going to be.

Very true, will patiently wait! I suppose biggest variable here is where the type rating will be delivered. Many thanks.

[Seosan]

Hi All, I’m not asking about the capacity test I’m sure many of you will be pleased to hear…

I’m joining in September as non-type rated FO on the A320. Spoke to a couple of others joining and they’re under impression accommodation during the type rating phase isn’t provided. I’ve been told that it will be as technically away from base and on company time.

Anyone able to cast any light on this?

The training is delivered by BA sims at LHR so it’s not ‘away from base’. You don’t get hotels for the type rating.

[kendrick47247]

The training is delivered by BA sims at LHR so it’s not ‘away from base’. You don’t get hotels for the type rating.

Type ratings and training are not exclusively done at LHR.

[Max Angle]

At the moment most A320 ratings are being done by L3 at Gatwick, if you are LHR based you will get a hotel room and daily allowances.

[ClearenceClarence]

Is the 777 TR exclusively done at the GLA or are there other locations they use?

[Flyfun24]

Hi All, I’m not asking about the capacity test I’m sure many of you will be pleased to hear…

I’m joining in September as non-type rated FO on the A320. Spoke to a couple of others joining and they’re under impression accommodation during the type rating phase isn’t provided. I’ve been told that it will be as technically away from base and on company time.

Anyone able to cast any light on this?
Hi, sorry I can't help with your question but are you able to shed some light on how long you were in the hold pool waiting for a phone call with a start date?

[The Foss]

Is the 777 TR exclusively done at the GLA or are there other locations they use?
I believe it’s just 320 ratings that have been getting outsourced to L3

[pilotHS24]

Are you paid during type rating training?

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Are you paid during type rating training?

Of course you are! If out of base you get allowances too. This should be the default and what you should expect…


My word what a state the industry is in :uhoh:

[CAVOKpilot]

Hi, sorry I can't help with your question but are you able to shed some light on how long you were in the hold pool waiting for a phone call with a start date?

I’ve dropped you a message.

[Flyfun24]

I’ve dropped you a message.
Thanks, I'll have a look once I get 3 posts hahaha

[Awaywiththefairies]

Of course you are! If out of base you get allowances too. This should be the default and what you should expect…


My word what a state the industry is in :uhoh:

I definitely wasn’t at a previously airline. Out of pocket for the type rating, technically unemployed, and living in an awful hotel!

[tecnamflyer]

How are non 320 type rated people joining mainline on the 320? My interpretation of the current recruitment ads are that if A320 rated with >500hrs you can join mainline, if not rated your only options are Euroflier, or if you've got 1500hrs ZFTT qualifying, you can join direct long haul.

I'm about 200 hrs short of the 1500, non 320 rated and not interested in Euroflier.

[clarkeysntfc]

They are taking cadets on to the mainline 320 fleet via the NQPP or whatever it’s called now.

[tecnamflyer]

Ah, well that would explain it. I thought the cadets were all being funnelled to EF.

[Oxazole]

Hi all,

Would anyone be able to clarify the £4.48 subsistence allowance/tafb payment. Is this based on time spent down route only or based on the whole duty time departing/arriving at Heathrow.

regards,

Oxazole

[GS-Alpha]

It’s from starting at Heathrow until you arrive back at Heathrow.

[Oxazole]

It’s from starting at Heathrow until you arrive back at Heathrow.

Thanks GS! Just trying to do some mental gymnastics to make the sums works between leaving orange, especially after the recent pay offer, but for the first ~15years it seems quite a hit. That being said, it’s a certainly a nice problem to be wrestling with I guess 😂

Oxazole

[Twitterati]

Is the 320 fleet getting close to needing DEC again?

[Plastic787]

Are you joining direct LH? If so you should eclipse what you’re earning as FO/SFO at easyJet without too much bother from day one (Capt is a different story) even after the substantially better pay rise you’ve received there. (Another story altogether but well done to the easyJet CC compared to our lot).

The U2 figures I’ve seen I spat out my coffee at originally, however missed the fact that they included pension and sector pay etc.

By way of illustration my allowances in May are just a smidge under £4K. However it’s a pretty busy month and includes a couple of hours of NCP too. Going forward on average you’re looking at just under £3K in monthly allowances on top of basic so add £30-35K to the basic as a Long Haul FO at BA for your sums.

[FACoff]

Is the 320 fleet getting close to needing DEC again?

Flew with someone in recruitment recently who expected DEC at Euroflyer again in the not-too-distant future. BA have been releasing some senior bidders from their LH freezes to fill the void in the LHS 320 at Heathrow for the time being.

I was equally shocked by the Easy pay deal (or rather, how poor the BA one was/is). Hypothetically any DEC recruitment at Heathrow would mean joining on a starting salary about £42k below your year 1 DEC Easy skipper - a gap which actually grows as the Easy loyalty bonus kicks in. Not to mention the appalling lifestyle at the bottom of the BA list.

[Oxazole]

Are you joining direct LH? If so you should eclipse what you’re earning as FO/SFO at easyJet without too much bother from day one (Capt is a different story) even after the substantially better pay rise you’ve received there. (Another story altogether but well done to the easyJet CC compared to our lot).

The U2 figures I’ve seen I spat out my coffee at originally, however missed the fact that they included pension and sector pay etc.

By way of illustration my allowances in May are just a smidge under £4K. However it’s a pretty busy month and includes a couple of hours of NCP too. Going forward on average you’re looking at just under £3K in monthly allowances on top of basic so add £30-35K to the basic as a Long Haul FO at BA for your sums.

We've been very fortunate as a membership, the CC have been fantastic all round.

Appreciate the clarity on allowances! The move would be to LHR SH, a personal decision on my part to help balance family commitments/wanting to gain relative seniority a little faster. The draws are the current time to command on SH, me not getting any younger (early 30s), and the career variety on offer. From having read through the thread, its a different lifestyle on offer over at BA as much as anythings else. Just have to weigh that up against the skipper salary (that being said once pension contributions/tax is considered it does become less stark than headlines might make out). I don't think I've added anything new to the discussion, other than restating time old considerations most have in resolving the EZY-BA quandary so apologies on that front. If I discover the answer i'll report back.

Oxazole

[ClearedToNowhere]

Flew with someone in recruitment recently who expected DEC at Euroflyer again in the not-too-distant future. BA have been releasing some senior bidders from their LH freezes to fill the void in the LHS 320 at Heathrow for the time being.

I was equally shocked by the Easy pay deal (or rather, how poor the BA one was/is). Hypothetically any DEC recruitment at Heathrow would mean joining on a starting salary about £42k below your year 1 DEC Easy skipper - a gap which actually grows as the Easy loyalty bonus kicks in. Not to mention the appalling lifestyle at the bottom of the BA list.

DECs open at EF now on the BA careers site, opened a day or two ago I believe.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

The whole LH earning more than SH at the bottom of the payscales comparing with mates not much in it with just the basics.
If you start factoring in spending down route etc unless you are sitting in your hotel room of course. 10 years in yes the gap widens a fair amount. Loads of variables in all the calculations. Living close to LHR means about £5 (£10ish before tax) a day in fuel round trip for me. I don’t mind the crew food and have gone days with only having 1 meal a day at home. Have also done 3 day trips away with lounge access, chilling by the pool, beers, food all included and come back having not spent a single penny. I have flown with skippers who bring their own food or go and grab an itsu before the flight. £5-£10 (as before is £10-£20 from your pre tax) a day soon adds up.
Commuters will have higher costs be it fuel, flying, hotels etc as well.

Year 2 SH and I average £2k per month on mostly day trips. NCP wise can usually get 10 hours quite easily just by swapping for higher credit stuff. Yes I have gone nuts on a few months and pushed out nearly 50hrs NCP, hard to do on SH. LH can get some high credit trips that easily eclipse that in a month.

I boiled it down to career options and being SH the night curfew at LHR is a bit of a god send. Latest I have been walking through my door is 1am. Rare occasion. Even on a run of lates I’m in bed by 11pm 90% of the time.

[pilotHS24]

Aiminghigh, what is NCP?

[Plastic787]

The whole LH earning more than SH at the bottom of the payscales comparing with mates not much in it with just the basics…..Commuters will have higher costs be it fuel, flying, hotels etc as well.

Tax deductible in many domiciles ;-)

[Plastic787]

Aiminghigh, what is NCP?

Overtime to keep it simple.

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Overtime to keep it simple.

“New Car, Please” :E

[Airbus Airhead]

Hi, sorry I can't help with your question but are you able to shed some light on how long you were in the hold pool waiting for a phone call with a start date?

From getting the successful email to a phone call with a start date was about 2 hours for me. My friend got the call before his success email even came through. So zero swimming time at the moment

[ATPLApproach]

I have an interview at LHR next week to join the SH fleet as a type-rated FO. The roster is an important part of the work/lifestyle and I managed to find about 4 examples of a monthly roster and was quite alarmed at the number of stops away from base, between 10-15 per month. Can any SH speedbirds here confirm what is normal? I'd like to sleep at home as many nights as possible. What's the lowest average nights away from base that can realistically be achieved? Thanks for any help

[yanny]

Near the bottom of the list I can see someone doing only 4 nights away in May. A little higher up someone only has 1 night away. Swaps will be your friend but mostly day trips should be achievable as people seem to favour tours near the bottom of the list.

As always, you can’t see what they are actually budding for but you definitely won’t be away 15 nights unless you ask to be.

[ClearenceClarence]

What are the most undesirable trips on the 777?

[MrNoName1997]

Is anyone able to provide any light on this really open ended question - applying for SH but I'm really comfortable with the SH airline I'm currently with and so I'm holding out for LH. I've heard there's still spaces for the LH fleet but they said they want 1500 hours on type by the time of the sim. Now I'm about 50 hours away from 1500 hours on type and so my question is this, the sim assessors, are they quite chilled normal guys/girls? Would they say no to LH if you were about to hit your 1500 hours very soon but not by the time of the sim?

I know the simple answer is to just wait until 1500 hours then do the sim but I'm worried there won't be any spots in LH by then, especially on the 350. Additionally, has anyone told BA when offered SH that they only want LH and then been able to negotiate it?
Thank you in advance, John

[Basicsteve]

Is anyone able to provide any light on this really open ended question - applying for SH but I'm really comfortable with the SH airline I'm currently with and so I'm holding out for LH. I've heard there's still spaces for the LH fleet but they said they want 1500 hours on type by the time of the sim. Now I'm about 50 hours away from 1500 hours on type and so my question is this, the sim assessors, are they quite chilled normal guys/girls? Would they say no to LH if you were about to hit your 1500 hours very soon but not by the time of the sim?

I know the simple answer is to just wait until 1500 hours then do the sim but I'm worried there won't be any spots in LH by then, especially on the 350. Additionally, has anyone told BA when offered SH that they only want LH and then been able to negotiate it?
Thank you in advance, John


if you are really comfortable in your current airline , A350 bottom of the list will be an eye opening experience for you .

[Busdriver01]

Is anyone able to provide any light on this really open ended question - applying for SH but I'm really comfortable with the SH airline I'm currently with and so I'm holding out for LH. I've heard there's still spaces for the LH fleet but they said they want 1500 hours on type by the time of the sim. Now I'm about 50 hours away from 1500 hours on type and so my question is this, the sim assessors, are they quite chilled normal guys/girls? Would they say no to LH if you were about to hit your 1500 hours very soon but not by the time of the sim?

If you're only 50 hours away then i'd just wait - surely going into summer schedule you'll get those 50hrs in less than a month, so by the time a sim slot is actually available you'll be good to go?

Additionally, has anyone told BA when offered SH that they only want LH and then been able to negotiate it?
Thank you in advance, John

Depends if you were marked as 'suitable for long haul' in the sim or not. Seems ridiculous, but because training resource is so scarce (especially on LH) if they're even remotely worried you may need more sectors to complete line training, they'll send you to SH first where training is easier to complete due to the number of sectors you fly. If you're 'suitable for long haul' but they offer you short haul (and you'll need to discuss if thats the case or not as they wont tell you up front usually) you can always say you'd rather wait for a LH slot, but at the demise of your seniority number and as you already allude to, what if no LH slots come up for a while?

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

If you're only 50 hours away then i'd just wait - surely going into summer schedule you'll get those 50hrs in less than a month, so by the time a sim slot is actually available you'll be good to go?



Depends if you were marked as 'suitable for long haul' in the sim or not. Seems ridiculous, but because training resource is so scarce (especially on LH) if they're even remotely worried you may need more sectors to complete line training, they'll send you to SH first where training is easier to complete due to the number of sectors you fly. If you're 'suitable for long haul' but they offer you short haul (and you'll need to discuss if thats the case or not as they wont tell you up front usually) you can always say you'd rather wait for a LH slot, but at the demise of your seniority number and as you already allude to, what if no LH slots come up for a while?

I’ll add to this that at the moment short haul seniority is rocketing up and you could find yourself dozens and dozens of places below where you’d be if you accepted an earlier join date and some years on SH. You’d then be bidding across to LH and slotting in maybe at 80-90% seniority, above those who waited for DEP LH slots.

It all takes some thinking, all I’ll say is that I think it’s a great place to work, and somewhere where you can make the job what you want - part time SH, full time LH, bid for essentially a fixed roster…. but the KEY to making those choices is seniority.

[Bah76f]

On the whole LH vs SH issue and waiting for hours etc. I’m only a few weeks into the company but the only ones that i have met who joined on LH were all type rated on 330, 350 or 777/787

Have not seen anybody doing an initial type rating on the LH fleet new in the company. This could change in the future of course.

Personally, i would not worry about LH vs SH and would just get onto that seniority list asap…

[Plastic787]

Personally, i would not worry about LH vs SH and would just get onto that seniority list asap…

Nailed it, it’s moving quick at the moment but if the music stops those 100-150 or whatever places you’ve lost yourself by waiting could cost you your command by multiple years. Add in the effect on compounding your pension contributions and it’s potentially going to cost you way more than you think you’re gaining.

[ploughman67]

What are the most undesirable trips on the 777?

Historically the low credit trips ABV, RUH, LOS, the latter not on the fleet at the moment.

Now JFK, with 8/9 per day if you’re junior you’ll visit twice a month or more. Any East coast trip will tend towards the bottom of the seniority.

Horses for courses, personally I’ve never had an issue with 3-day Africa/Middle East trips. Short flights and no/minimal time change. It’s just the (lack of) credit that means they are unpopular. With regard to JFK, all slips are in Manhattan so there’s always something to do.

[Northern Monkey]

Just to expand a bit on the above - and apologies if I’m repeating things already covered - low credit trips are unpopular because everyone has to make CAP each month - the credit target set by BA and determined by how much work there is to cover that month. Broadly speaking you might need to do either 3 x HKG/HND for example, 4 x SEA/IAH/MAA or else you could end up doing 5 or even in extremis 6 x JFK/BOS/EWR etc to reach that credit target. Compounding that of course is that the former will be 4 crew with 6 hours in the bunk, the middle 3 crew with 3 hours in the bunk and the latter 2 crew with zero hours in the bunk. It’s easy to see therefore why being very junior - particularly on the 777 - doesn’t make (always) for a particularly enjoyable life.

Personally I quite like certain places on the east coast. IAD/BOS are great cities to visit…. But the credit makes them unpalatable. And it’s just more commuting into Heathrow, more hassle into and out of Heathrow. And of course if you’re a commuter they are a bit of a disaster on a cost level as well.

[The Blu Riband]

are they quite chilled normal guys/girls?

you should understand that - in general - BA is a rules based corporate organisation. The pilots involved in your sim tests and interviews will be top people, but won't have any such discretion.
The airline is pretty much a faceless and characterless entity with very little flexibility; just a lot of processes.

[Plastic787]

Personally I quite like certain places on the east coast. IAD/BOS are great cities to visit….

BOS yes but Reston??? :E

[ClearenceClarence]

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

[glidehigh]

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

I was in exactly your position when i joined. Same age, single, and wanted to get closer to home. First few years were far more enjoyable, varied and exciting than i had expected. You would get that period of being low seniority out the way at a point in life with minimal commitments, knowing that once the commitments come along, you will be higher up the seniority ladder.

For those with commitments, things like part time are open to all, regardless of seniority. Everyone gets 6 leave/duty free weeks per year of around 10 days at a time. Bottom of the list on the 777 will give plenty of shorter 3 day trips, but will also give some longer trips as others have outlined. It's certainly the long game with a seniority based airline.

[Northern Monkey]

After having read numerous posts about how awful it is being a low seniority FO on the 777, I’m starting to have second thoughts 🫣 been offered a 777 course, currently fly for a loco smashing out 4 sector days every other day. It seems like that’s an easier life than junior 777 from what has been said.

Is 28 too old to be joining this fleet in terms of reaping the rewards of seniority gains? Currently single, no kids and joining BA would allow me to get back closer to home. Though on the flip side doing the command upgrade at my current outfit would see me earning a lot more money sooner however I’m conscious on the proverbial golden handcuffs too.

In your situation & at your age I wouldn't worry about being junior. Not a disaster given your current lifestyle and by the time other things come around you'll be more senior. Don't forget the pay off does come along eventually. Once you are senior life is brilliant.

The money perspective is another matter altogether and I can understand why that might prompt some careful soul searching.

[tecnamflyer]

Not in a too dissimilar situation from the above posters

Just under 1300 relevant time at a LOCO, so still 200 short for the mainline long haul application. No A320 time, so can't apply for DEP A320.

Is it worth applying yet to get the ball rolling, or will it be rejected?

I'm concerned that by the time I get 200 more hrs, they'll have closed the hiring window, I know its been open for a while. I will be a commuter to London, for that reason I've not applied for Euroflier (to the demise of a potential seniority number I understand :/ )

[sillyworm]

Hi everyone!
here is my scenario…… I’m 33 have a young family , working at a holiday airline which could potentially see me with a command within a year or 2 .
I want a better quality of life later on in my career as I basically have 30 years ahead of me .

Am I being silly applying for LH BA ( I have done LH before for a few years prior) ?
My fleet of choice would be 380 , how likely is that to happen ?

I am really really on the fence with this !!!!!

It would take me along time to get the same figures of command pay , but is that the case ? As I have heard on the grape vine that LH FO can earn some good cash ?

I appreciate that people have different views but some scenarios would be greatly appreciated!

[Lew747]

I echo the exact same as the above post (without the family). 33, command on the horizon. I’m totally on the fence whilst awaiting DEP position (currently swimming in the pool). Wanting long haul.

Very unsure of what to do!

[R T Jones]

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

[GS-Alpha]

I believe some 380 DEPs are expected this year, but how many, or whether they’ve all been given their offers already, I do not know.

It is very difficult for anyone to advise whether jumping from one airline to another is the right thing for the individual to do. I personally do not think BA has been the ‘be all and end all’ for a very long time, but people still keep joining, and I have never worked for another airline so what do I know? That being said, if you are ever going to join BA, sooner is almost always better than later. If you have left it until later, it is practically guaranteed you will regret it for a period of time, as the bottom of the seniority list on any fleet is not that much fun. Some fleets have better junior lifestyles than others, and you’ll stay junior for differing periods of time on the different fleets too. That’s before you even consider the financial side of things.

[sillyworm]

Some interesting replies , as a year 1 LH FO what would the take home pay look like ?
Do you get good allowances etc…

[RexBanner]

Hi everyone!
here is my scenario…… I’m 33 have a young family , working at a holiday airline which could potentially see me with a command within a year or 2 .
I want a better quality of life later on in my career as I basically have 30 years ahead of me .

Am I being silly applying for LH BA ( I have done LH before for a few years prior) ?
My fleet of choice would be 380 , how likely is that to happen ?

I am really really on the fence with this !!!!!

It would take me along time to get the same figures of command pay , but is that the case ? As I have heard on the grape vine that LH FO can earn some good cash ?

I appreciate that people have different views but some scenarios would be greatly appreciated!


check your PMs

[ClearenceClarence]

Is anyone able to comment on training capacity at the moment for the B777? Are there likely to be delays for sim and line training?

[Flyby444]

check your PMs

Hi, I’m in a very similar position. Is there some info you can provide me with also? Thanks

[RexBanner]

Just to open it up to more people the A380 is a great fleet but the problem with it is its extremely US centric post COVID. Yes we’ve got SIN back and there’s JNB but as junior pilots you won’t be seeing many of those. That leaves DXB (winter seasonal) but otherwise welcome to taking out a small mortgage to eat when down route. You won’t see much change out of $35 for breakfast anywhere and that’s just one meal of the day. We get free breakfast in MIA but even there you’re expected to tip, oh and there’s a lounge at the hotel in IAD but otherwise Reston is a soul crushingly dull place as alluded to above. I wouldn’t exactly say it’s a deal breaker but it does certainly add up over the course of the month, particularly as the allowances aren’t exceptionally generous and haven’t kept pace with just how expensive the US is nowadays.

[GS-Alpha]

In my opinion, the 380 is hands down the best fleet to be junior on in BA by a country mile.

[RexBanner]

100% agree. But you are going to be spending more down route than on other fleets which becomes relevant if finances are a major consideration to you. That is also beyond dispute in my humble opinion.

[byrondaf]

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

RT, myself and a good mate of mine (both same age as you) had this exact discussion about leaving easy for BA. We even had a chat about you going and weighed up all the pro's and cons. I think for us, going 75% in a couple of years is the only way we'll make it to the end of our careers as we're not prepared to take the risk. For me starting a family in the next couple of years was also a dealbreaker. I hope it works out for you and at least gain more control of your life as your seniority increases, we've resigned ourselves to the lottery of preferential bidding and working less to cope. I'll watch this space to find out if you feel like you made the right choice in a few years! You were a decent skipper to fly with, wish you all the best.

[Potatos_69]

I’ve just turned 36, done 14 years at easy with 8 of them in the left seat. Two young kids and a wife not working. I’m joining in a few months onto the 320 with a hope of getting a quick command. I know I’ll be bottom of that list for a while and what that entails, but for me, it’s come down to can I do another 30 years at easyjet. Part time is an option, I’d earn more 75% than I will in the first few years at BA… I’m joining for the long term benefits, the staff travel, long haul, pension! (7 vs 15%). I know I’ll never get to the top of the pay points and probably not see the very top of the seniority tree either. I also live 40 mins from Heathrow so commuting is not a factor, I want to stay in the south east long term as well.
I am nervous if I’m making the right decision, I’m only going to know in 5-10 years I suspect.

the top pay point you’ll get to is 29, on shorthaul including standard pension that’s 240k with the new pay deal (obviously we hope it improves with inflation in the future!) 270k for LH captain.

your first year as a captain PP2 should give you 144k including pension.

both of those are for full time. And while you are SH P1you will spend a good chunk of your career at the bottom of the seniority list which is not ideal for work life balance (75% PT seems to be the cure to work life balance a bit however, and having kids puts you in fairly good stead to get it in time)

40 mins to Heathrow makes doing all the reserves you’ll end up getting more liveable however!

[Busdriver01]

including standard pension that’s 240k


Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respond, when asked 'how much do you earn', with a number that included their pension.

[JM926]

Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respon when asked 'how much do you earn' with a number that included their pension.


completely agree. Guys I know were up in arms when they read the EZY deal which was published a short while ago-saying how we needed a much better pay rise. Sure, everyone wants more money, who doesn’t, but they didn’t seem to grasp that the only reason they were so up in arms was that the FY24 salary in ezy included the company pension contribution. To compare apples with apples you’d need to add on our company pension contribution to our salary. Why you’d ever do that is beyond me!

[FACoff]

completely agree. Guys I know were up in arms when they read the EZY deal which was published a short while ago-saying how we needed a much better pay rise. Sure, everyone wants more money, who doesn’t, but they didn’t seem to grasp that the only reason they were so up in arms was that the FY24 salary in ezy included the company pension contribution. To compare apples with apples you’d need to add on our company pension contribution to our salary. Why you’d ever do that is beyond me!

Personally I understand why they do it because while BA basic pay is generally lower, a big chunk of the overall package is in the pension contributions which would otherwise go ignored if simply comparing basic salary and allowances.

By the same logic an EZY skipper could put 20% of his/her salary into their pension and then claim their salary was 20% less than it is. When the disparity in contributions is so high between EZY and BA (7% vs 15%), you do need to factor it in somehow when comparing the two.

The BA pension is obviously good, but would I rather have it in the basic salary so I could do with it what I please? Yes.
Do we think EZY would be offering the numbers they are if they too had a 15% pension? No.

[VariablePitchP]

Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respond, when asked 'how much do you earn', with a number that included their pension.

You have to include the pension when discussing the overall package.

People are getting very excited about being on £200K as a Y12 WUK captain. WUK will put £1300 into the pension for that captain. BA will put in about £22,000.

That extra £20K is enormous.

Take it to the extreme example. Airline X starts giving their pilots £50K a year salary and £8m a year into the pension. I think I’d include that when comparing.

[GS-Alpha]

Similarly, a lot of people in BA, particularly higher up the pay scales, take a large portion of their ‘pension payments’ as salary.

[Busdriver01]

But the standard way of describing all terms and conditions in every other job on the planet (and until recently, aviation) was to state salary + allowances + % pension contribution. You know if its a good pension contribution from the % alone. To try and say that easyJet captains are paid 200k after this new pay deal, for example, is to deliberately try and bamboozle people with a huge number, depsite the fact the number is significantly less. Once you've seen the big number, you can't get it out of your mind even when told 'actually take 30k off that number for what they're actually seeing as a gross salary'

[VariablePitchP]

But the standard way of describing all terms and conditions in every other job on the planet (and until recently, aviation) was to state salary + allowances + % pension contribution. You know if its a good pension contribution from the % alone. To try and say that easyJet captains are paid 200k after this new pay deal, for example, is to deliberately try and bamboozle people with a huge number, depsite the fact the number is significantly less. Once you've seen the big number, you can't get it out of your mind even when told 'actually take 30k off that number for what they're actually seeing as a gross salary'

That I would mostly agree with from a pilot receiving pay deal view. If you’re there on £140k salary and you see ‘£198K’ then absolutely it’d be hard not to be rabbit in headlights and fixate a bit on that. I think you’re right with the sense that this has been presented in as positive a light as the union can spin it.

But when comparing against other jobs, which given this is a BA DEP thread, is presumably the purpose of this little side topic, you have to look at the whole package. If the Jet2 brigade chime in and preach the gospel they’ll mention the profit share. Not consolidated salary, but still important as it is a factor in comparing carriers.

[GS-Alpha]

I prefer it that way around to be honest, because it might help drive real terms salaries upwards for once.

[Plastic787]

WUK will put £1300 into the pension for that captain. BA will put in about £22,000.

A year??? Seriously??? How does that even meet the minimum contribution mandated by UK employment law? That’s so immoral it’s beyond disgusting, but then nothing surprises me from Wizz Air. I stick that into my pension with my own contributions before you even get to company contributions per month!!! Apologies for thread drift.

[VariablePitchP]

A year??? Seriously??? How does that even meet the minimum contribution mandated by UK employment law? That’s so immoral it’s beyond disgusting, but then nothing surprises me from Wizz Air. I stick that into my pension with my own contributions before you even get to company contributions per month!!! Apologies for thread drift.

Google ‘Auto-Enrolment Pensions’

It’s eye opening, millions of people in the uk with ‘normal’ jobs, that’s all they get.

Employer legally has to pay 3% on your qualifying earnings, currently between £6,240 and £50,270. You pay 4%, HMRC grosses up the 4% to either 5%, giving the fabled 8% people talk about. Granted slightly more grossing up if you pay higher tax but that’s the general idea.

That’s it. Any more and your employer is going beyond the legal minimum. Works out to £110 a month maximum contribution, whether you make £50,000 or £150,000.

The average pension pot at retirement is about £50k for those without historic final salary jobs. That’s the reality, and there’s plenty on here who throw that in each year! :eek:

[Potatos_69]

Can we please, please, please, stop wrapping pension figures into the headline number when talking about salary? It has never ever been done like that, but suddenly balpa at at least two airlines I know of have decided it's a good idea to do so, I presume in an attempt to make the 'salary' look bigger than it actually is to sell the deal. Pension is incredibly important, of course, but I know of absolutely no-one else (non flying, city job friends etc) that would respond, when asked 'how much do you earn', with a number that included their pension.

-33k for the pension contribution at pp29, - 16k for pay point to for your salary. Would have done it but was busy flying and needed time to look at the balpa calculator again.

[JliderPilot]

To include the employer pension contributions into the salary figure is sensible I think. Think of it as total remuneration.

only then will you be able to compare job for job.

there are many other factors obviously, including roster, basing, working conditions, opportunities for promotion, etc. mind you, pensions on offer these days are a shadow of what they were. No more final salary guaranteed amounts.

bottom line is to make you’re own arrangements if the company plan is not working out for you / not competitive.

[Time Traveller]

Including pension is helpful for consideration of the total gross package (but let's not muddy the waters with gross-ups - the gross total is what we're considering).
But let's remember the old final salaries equated to about 20-25% of salary. My old company were bragging that £8000 (about 6%) for captains was a good pension... for office workers maybe, but for pilots; it really isn't. Less than 10% is below the market rate, and way way below historical norms.

[Potatos_69]

You have to include the pension when discussing the overall package.

People are getting very excited about being on £200K as a Y12 WUK captain. WUK will put £1300 into the pension for that captain. BA will put in about £22,000.

That extra £20K is enormous.

Take it to the extreme example. Airline X starts giving their pilots £50K a year salary and £8m a year into the pension. I think I’d include that when comparing.

There is no excitement about WUK. It’s a toxic company with fairly poor work life balance that is only good for a first job, or your company went bust and you want to fly a couple more years before retiring.

The previous point was just that SH captains at mainline are poorly paid for half their career compared to the other English airlines that operate. I was using Wizz as an example because I can see the pay details for BA, BAEF, and WUK.

PP12 Wizz captain INCLUDING PENSION earns 20 grand a year more than a BA SH captain currently with the new pay deal complete (202k vs 182k). With conditions as they are currently without the pay deal in place for BA at this current date the BA captain is almost 40k worse off even with the pension payments. It takes PP18 with the new pay deal or PP25/26 as things are currently for those total packages including pensions to match. That’s more than half your career until you catch up to the total package of a poor ULC bus company.

A BAEF captain can never even earn as much as any other entity in the uk as they max out at about 165k after 12 years including pension.

This is said as someone who is enjoying life at BA as it’s a far better place to be I think, but there are some things that can be improved to make it more competitive for more mature joiners who’ll never reach the top of the pay scales and sit there for 10 years like most others have had the ability to.

[JliderPilot]

Small details, but worth to consider.

Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.

[Potatos_69]

Small details, but worth to consider.

Does the company pension make deductions from your salary before tax? Do they also return to you the benefit they make by virtue of your increased pension contributions. If you choose to put more than the minimum into the pension scheme, the company pays less NI to the government. They should really give that back to you in the form of an increased pension contribution.

100% accurate, I believe everyone but WUK and maybe RYR do this. I know for certain WUK keeps that saving for itself. Which isn’t surprising.

[AIMINGHIGH123]

I just look at the actual salary.

Adding the pension as some say is ridiculous.
Do you start adding the tax benefit of doing this as well?
Then look at the tax when you retire etc?
That gets very complicated and so many variables in those scenarios.
Do we start adding overtime in?
Do we add the tax benefits when down route at certain destinations?
With overtime and good trips you can add a fair amount to your pay. I mean even in my first year at BA I had some months with 5 figures before tax and never cracked more than 80 hrs in a month.

Back to BA.

I had the chance to go LHS at the yellow and blue LCC. Decided BA is better. Way more career options. Better PT options and the added 18 weeks unpaid leave per child is handy. I know loads of captains who throw an unpaid leave week in July or August. Ok it’s not guaranteed but overtime and you hardly lose on pay.

And as I have said before. On SH the night curfew is awesome. Anyone living within 1 hr of LHR BA is the best option IMO.

[Lew747]

Can anybody PM me with some insight into A350 lifestyle. A typical roster(s), time off between trips etc please. Much appreciated! Thank you

[Bemgy]

Hello,

Anyone know if the IR needs to be valid before starting the Type Rating?
I know the Type Rating exam itself classes as a revalidation/renewal, but not sure how BA like to do things?
Will save me a few quid, Cheers.

[takeoff320]

Hi everyone, just wanted to ask whether anyone can provide any information about how long people can expect to remain in the hold pool and which LH fleets are primarily being recruited on?

[mrguy]

Hello,

Anyone know if the IR needs to be valid before starting the Type Rating?
I know the Type Rating exam itself classes as a revalidation/renewal, but not sure how BA like to do things?
Will save me a few quid, Cheers.
​​​​​​
You can email the pilot recruitment team for confirmation, but they told me it doesn't. You only need to " have or have held" one for your first type rating, the regulations were subtly ammended in 2019.

[clvf88]

Hi all, does anyone have any information on what the BA drugs & alcohol test entails? Breathalyser? Urine sample?

I'd save this question for your interview. They'll be more than happy to discuss further.

[sillyworm]

Some good information thanks

[Busdriver01]

Hi all, does anyone have any information on what the BA drugs & alcohol test entails? Breathalyser? Urine sample?
Asking for a friend, yeah? !!

[R T Jones]

RT, myself and a good mate of mine (both same age as you) had this exact discussion about leaving easy for BA. We even had a chat about you going and weighed up all the pro's and cons. I think for us, going 75% in a couple of years is the only way we'll make it to the end of our careers as we're not prepared to take the risk. For me starting a family in the next couple of years was also a dealbreaker. I hope it works out for you and at least gain more control of your life as your seniority increases, we've resigned ourselves to the lottery of preferential bidding and working less to cope. I'll watch this space to find out if you feel like you made the right choice in a few years! You were a decent skipper to fly with, wish you all the best.

Thank you! I think everyone’s situation and wants will be different so I can very much see the argument for staying and going 75%. If we do fly again before I leave, unless you’re now a captain, Do make yourself known. Clearly there is no mystery in my username…

[CAVOKpilot]

​​​​​​
You can email the pilot recruitment team form confirmation, but they told me it doesn't. You only need to " have or have held" one for your first type rating, the regulations were subtly ammended in 2019.

Email queried this last week. Mine's up in July and I start in Sep, been told it shouldn't be a problem and will be revalidated during the TR.

[sillyworm]

Thanks for the private messages , for some reason I can’t reply ….
The pay is a hard pill to swallow for me as I believe for the next few years it would be important to have more pay . I know that you can do overtime at BA and it pays well BUT that’s not guaranteed.
Also time away from home is a factor , 4-5 trips per month is a killer . I used to do 3-4 when I did LH and that was pretty tough ……
Only positive I can really think of is the possibility to manipulate my roster which would take years at the bottom of a LH type , yes the pay is higher at the top end of the pay scales but most go part time to allow for a work life balance.
Again a tough decision

[bylgw]

https://www.caa.co.uk/commercial-industry/pilot-licences/non-uk-licences/conversion-of-an-easa-flight-crew-licence-to-a-uk-part-equivalent-licence/

[allert]

Email queried this last week. Mine's up in July and I start in Sep, been told it shouldn't be a problem and will be revalidated during the TR.

How long did you wait for the phone call with the start date?

[Busdriver01]

Thanks for the private messages , for some reason I can’t reply ….
The pay is a hard pill to swallow for me as I believe for the next few years it would be important to have more pay . I know that you can do overtime at BA and it pays well BUT that’s not guaranteed.
Also time away from home is a factor , 4-5 trips per month is a killer . I used to do 3-4 when I did LH and that was pretty tough ……
Only positive I can really think of is the possibility to manipulate my roster which would take years at the bottom of a LH type , yes the pay is higher at the top end of the pay scales but most go part time to allow for a work life balance.
Again a tough decision
Sounds like you answered your own question, really.

[mrguy]

How long did you wait for the phone call with the start date?
​​​​​​
it was about a week after the assessment for me. Other people on my course were waiting a month or so.

[sillyworm]

Aiminghigh please can you resend your message , I had to delete some

[flying pancake]

So, when will the informed share the numbers for the smoke and mirrors debate relating to pilot salaries (BA, easy, etc) pay, pension and other other numbers that make up what are claimed to be salaries but are probably not really - these are the numbers that building societies need to help them make informed decisions on available mortgage lending?

[Seosan]

Are they still offering DEP onto the 380 or is it all 777 and 320 at the mo?

[Alrosa]

So, when will the informed share the numbers for the smoke and mirrors debate relating to pilot salaries (BA, easy, etc) pay, pension and other other numbers that make up what are claimed to be salaries but are probably not really - these are the numbers that building societies need to help them make informed decisions on available mortgage lending?

Shorthaul 320 Pilot LHR . My mortgage letter from salary portal shows average earnings of £110k on annual basis. I’m junior and do a mix of day trips and 2-3 day trips with overtime and reserve every month. I chuck in the maximum I can into pension so I can get the 15% from BA but I’m not doing AVCs at the moment.

Not sure that’s really very helpful but there you go (I’m also looking to save ASAP for a deposit …)

[roll_over]

So, when will the informed share the numbers for the smoke and mirrors debate relating to pilot salaries (BA, easy, etc) pay, pension and other other numbers that make up what are claimed to be salaries but are probably not really - these are the numbers that building societies need to help them make informed decisions on available mortgage lending?

I don’t work for BA but I got a DIP for 6.7x my basic salary due to allowances and overtime, you just need to find a good mortgage broker and they should help you out.

[FlyingGasMain]

Hi there,

I’ve got an interview / group exercise day coming up. There is some info on one of the supporting documents that says :

“we will ask you to complete an online ability test measuring your general ability. You will need to complete the test before attending your assessment centre - a link will be sent out to you 3-5 days in advance of your assessment centre day”

Can anyone who’s done the interview in the last 2 or 3 months tell me if they did this pre-interview online test, and roughly what it consists of ?

cheers

FlyingGasMain

[SpamCanDriver]

Shorthaul 320 Pilot LHR . My mortgage letter from salary portal shows average earnings of £110k on annual basis. I’m junior and do a mix of day trips and 2-3 day trips with overtime and reserve every month. I chuck in the maximum I can into pension so I can get the 15% from BA but I’m not doing AVCs at the moment.

Not sure that’s really very helpful but there you go (I’m also looking to save ASAP for a deposit …)

It's not just about average earnings, any part of your earnings that are not fixed are treated differently by lenders. Sure you might be able to find a lender that will treat them almost as salaried income, but your options will be significantly narrowed & its definitely not likely to be the best rate out there. Salary is king when it comes to mortgages

That being said, wish you the best of luck in your house hunting adventures!

[JliderPilot]

Salary is not king, would suggest take home salary is king, there is a subtle difference.

The financial crowd out there are merciless to protect their bottom line. Even though you earn £120k plus gross, your pension contributions can affect your mortgage offer. So take home is the focus. Sooner you are mortgage free the better.

[CAVOKpilot]

Shorthaul 320 Pilot LHR . My mortgage letter from salary portal shows average earnings of £110k on annual basis. I’m junior and do a mix of day trips and 2-3 day trips with overtime and reserve every month. I chuck in the maximum I can into pension so I can get the 15% from BA but I’m not doing AVCs at the moment.

Not sure that’s really very helpful but there you go (I’m also looking to save ASAP for a deposit …)

Does anybody know how soon after joining this letter generates? I ask because my wife and I are looking to relocate about 3 months after I join. Hopefully by then I will see the flying pay appear on the payslips. Do you need to have worked a year for this average annual earnings to calculate? Or will it make a forecast based on basic salary and projected flying pay?

I have already put the feelers out to lenders with my contract offer letter and many aren’t interested in lending more than what they calculate off the basic salary, or can’t grasp the collective agreement idea.

If anybody has experienced this, or has also attempted purchasing a property soon after joining, I would love to hear from them!

[JulietSierra6]

Does anybody know how soon after joining this letter generates? I ask because my wife and I are looking to relocate about 3 months after I join. Hopefully by then I will see the flying pay appear on the payslips. Do you need to have worked a year for this average annual earnings to calculate? Or will it make a forecast based on basic salary and projected flying pay?

I have already put the feelers out to lenders with my contract offer letter and many aren’t interested in lending more than what they calculate off the basic salary, or can’t grasp the collective agreement idea.

If anybody has experienced this, or has also attempted purchasing a property soon after joining, I would love to hear from them!

The letter is based off an average of your last 3 months earnings I believe, so should be available after that amount of time in the company. I’m not sure how much weight it carries with mortgage lenders though to be honest. They’ll be more interested in actual payslips.

Your best bet is honestly to use a broker who understands the complexities of our pay structure and will have access to a wider selection of lenders, often with better rates and should be able to increase your borrowing power if that’s what you’re after. Pm me if you want the details of a pilot in BA who can help.

[GlassCollector]

If anyone has an upcoming sim assessment (like me) and would like to coordinate some Airbus practice in the Gatwick area, please PM me; I have some box options.

[Shaman]

Shorthaul 320 Pilot LHR . My mortgage letter from salary portal shows average earnings of £110k on annual basis.......

Captain or copilot? Pay point?

[Alrosa]

Captain or copilot? Pay point?

FO with just under 12 months’ service. That’s with overtime every month, mostly available during the weekends. Once I’ve got my deposit and mortgage I’ll be dialling down the flying…

[Shaman]

FO with just under 12 months’ service. That’s with overtime every month, mostly available during the weekends. Once I’ve got my deposit and mortgage I’ll be dialling down the flying…

Thanks for the reply - not too bad for someone who has just joined BA and I am sure that those thinking of applying will be pleased to see genuine figures.

[SierraHotel83]

What was agreed re pay rises over the next 2-3 years? Is it correct there are biannual increases? If anyone is willing to share the % I’d be much obliged.

What’s the general consensus on pay at BA now Virgin and EasyJet have secured such a significant increase?

[GS-Alpha]

If you work on 2.5% per year until January 2027 you won’t be too far wrong.

[Kibathepilot]

What are shorthaul rosters like? Are they fixed pattern days on and off or random each month?

[Busdriver01]

What are shorthaul rosters like? Are they fixed pattern days on and off or random each month?
This HAS to be a troll.

(If not, I truly despair. Read the thread. Use the search function. This has been discussed multiple times recently, let alone countless times over the history of this thread)

[Climb150]

This HAS to be a troll.

(If not, I truly despair. Read the thread. Use the search function. This has been discussed multiple times recently, let alone countless times over the history of this thread)

It's like they have multiple offers from major airlines and need to do some research on which one has better rosters etc!

Unless by some miracle you got a US green card and an offer from Delta, just take BA.

I suspect these are all teenagers trying to decide which MPL scheme to drop £100k of their parents money on.

[topgunaviator]

Hi, are you able to use your own headsets on the A320s? Or are there ones already in the aircraft you have to use?

[Saabdriver1]

I’ve read the threads but still would like to ask - on the SH 320 fleet, roughly how many flying hours per year do you end up with, and how much time sitting between flights in the T5 crew lounge is normal?

[Doug E Style]

Hi, are you able to use your own headsets on the A320s? Or are there ones already in the aircraft you have to use?

You can use your own (approved types only) or those in the aircraft.

[Doug E Style]

how much time sitting between flights in the T5 crew lounge is normal?

T5 crew lounge? Doesn’t exist. Not airside anyway. Sitting around time (usually at a coffee shop) varies considerably depending on what type of trips you do. An hour or two spare time between flights is common.

[nightfright]

T5 crew lounge? Doesn’t exist. Not airside anyway. Sitting around time (usually at a coffee shop) varies considerably depending on what type of trips you do. An hour or two spare time between flights is common.

Sounds like a dream!

[Awaywiththefairies]

You can use your own (approved types only) or those in the aircraft.

out of interest are the new proflights or a20/30 on the approved list?

[Alrosa]

out of interest are the new proflights or a20/30 on the approved list?

Proflights yes, A20 no and A30s currently being evaluated.

[CAVOKpilot]

You can use your own (approved types only) or those in the aircraft.

Hi, anyone able to confirm what the company issue headset is? If it varies by fleet, am interested in the A320.

[SAR Bloke]

Are people really factoring in what type of headsets are in use when deciding on their career options?

[CAVOKpilot]

Are people really factoring in what type of headsets are in use when deciding on their career options?

Not an unreasonable question and certainly has no weighting over career options, just curious is all. I have no idea how you’ve derived that conclusion from my question.

As someone who has never owned a headset I would like to see what I’ll be potentially using.

[MarkNYC]

Good morning guys.

I am currently in the Holding pool for Long Haul.
I was wondering if anyone was offered Long haul recently and how long they had to wait for the verbal offer.

thank you so much!

[GS-Alpha]

I too have been finding several of the questions on here pretty entertaining of late. People will be asking what the current crew meal options are next. Is it really necessary to know about headsets before you join a company and find out for yourself?

[CAVOKpilot]

These are fair and reasonable questions. It’s a forum for questions and answers. If you don’t want to provide a constructive answer or dialogue then don’t participate. There are scores of pilots joining - some waiting for calls and others with very little information other than a start date. Naturally, people will gravitate to this thread for some clarification. Surprised to be met with negativity and despondency from some contributors. Though, glad that the vast majority of people have been welcoming and engaging.

[hunterboy]

I think why there is such mirth at headsets being the reason to join a company like BA is that the old hands know it can change the following week if/when a new Tech Manager wants to make a name for him/herself by saving money and binning the present headset and selecting a cheaper Chinese version. Hence, the advice not to select an employer by the headsets or crew meals as it could all change after you join. And then you will be a very unhappy little bunny. Good luck either way.

[CAVOKpilot]

I think why there is such mirth at headsets being the reason to join a company like BA is that the old hands know it can change the following week if/when a new Tech Manager wants to make a name for him/herself by saving money and binning the present headset and selecting a cheaper Chinese version. Hence, the advice not to select an employer by the headsets or crew meals as it could all change after you join. And then you will be a very unhappy little bunny. Good luck either way.

Hi there, thanks for the added context, makes sense. Though, wasn’t expecting my question to be misconstrued so heavily by others. Headsets certainly have no bearing on my decision. I am very privileged to be offered the opportunity to join BA. Just wanted to ask the experts and those with the experience an honest question. Everybody has been new once? I don’t know, I’ll just take questions elsewhere. Shame really, a great welcome to the ranks…

[hunterboy]

I understand the request for info. All I would say is BA is a big uncaring employer that pays lip service to many employment rules. If you are going to sweat the small stuff, you will be very unhappy in a big company like BA. If you want to come to work and fly, travel around Europe and the World , eat whatever is put in front of you and be grateful, wear whatever headset your employer provides you, and know you will be paid at the end of the month, then come on in, the water’s fine.

[GS-Alpha]

People come to this thread to find out useful information about joining BA as a DEP. If they have to read through multiple posts about irrelevant trivia, they find it difficult to find that useful information, and end up asking the same questions again and again. It is best to keep this thread for relevant DEP questions and answers. By all means start another thread for your questions which hold absolutely no bearing as to why you might choose to join BA as a DEP. The reason people are thinking you are basing your decision to join on the headset type, is because that is what this thread is for.

[GS-Alpha]

If you don’t want to provide a constructive answer or dialogue then don’t participate.
And that is precisely my point.

[CAVOKpilot]

People come to this thread to find out useful information about joining BA as a DEP. If they have to read through multiple posts about irrelevant trivia, they find it difficult to find that useful information, and end up asking the same questions again and again. It is best to keep this thread for relevant DEP questions and answers. By all means start another thread for your questions which hold absolutely no bearing as to why you might choose to join BA as a DEP. The reason people are thinking you are basing your decision to join on the headset type, is because that is what this thread is for.

Sorry GS-Alpha, I can’t take responsibility for other people not reading through the thread and not using the search function.

Also you say the thread is ‘for people to find out useful information about joining BA as a DEP’ - I am asking a question that is relevant and for information that I think may be useful. Unless it’s for you to decide what is ‘useful?’

Anyway, happy to take offline if prefer. In the mean time, two other respectful and well meaning colleagues have reached out to me to supply the information and offer their support.

[GS-Alpha]

I presume by your words, you mean I am not a supportive well meaning and respectful colleague? Feel free to ask your daft questions, I won’t bother contributing any more.

[NotSoSmart]

Forgive me, I feel almost stupid asking, but is anybody able to explain what people keep referring too as "credit". I repeatedly see people mentioning "high/low credit trips" etc, and coming from a 320 ACMI carrier, I can't seem to put the pieces of the puzzle together. I did use the search function, but it just showed me more people mentioning credit rather than an actual explanation of what it means.

If it's something straight forward and I'm missing something very clearly written in black and white, my DMs are open for you to call me a blithering idiot.

[champair79]

Hi NotSoSmart,

Simply put, each trip is given a credit value. Broadly speaking, it’s related to the number of flying hours in the trip (with a minimum value per day at work) plus a small amount for time downroute over a certain length. The exact ways it’s calculated differs slightly between longhaul and shorthaul.

CAP is the total amount of credit each pilot needs to achieve each month. It’s usually in the 80-90 hour range and varies slightly by month. JSS (the roster generator) builds you a line of work to get you up to CAP. Ground duties, part time, leave etc all attract credit as well, and this is all factored into your month’s roster.

To sum up, credit is BA’s measure of how hard it wants you to work. Therefore, ‘credit dense’ trips tend to be more popular - a lot of flying in a shorter amount of time so that you’re at home more is the logic of most. Other airlines may use ‘days at work’ (so that the shortest, easiest trips therefore become the most popular!). Each method has pros and cons.

I hope that helps.

champ

[wiggy]

NotSoSmart

v v simplistic take on it, which may be slightly out of date so open to correction:

BA wants you to do a certain number of units of work in a month (the CAP). The unit of measurement is credit/credited hours.

TBH the term could have been “credited bananas” or “credited widgets” but “credit/credited hours” it is, which can cause confusion if you have not come across the concept before and have only ever considered hours = flying.

Everything that can go on a roster (flights, sims, leave, ground training etc) will have a credited hours value attached to it by BA. That value is agreed with BALPA, how it is calculated for a given activity is I’d suggest beyond the scope of this discussion :bored:.

High credit/low credit, as in “that’s a high/low credit trip” means what it says on the tin.

Credit dense means an activity that generates a lot of credited hours for not a lot of time at work…..

HTH

[ClearenceClarence]

Is e learning which is carried out at home assigned a credit value?

[Northern Monkey]

It does as of a couple of weeks ago.

[topgunaviator]

Hello, if you were to go to 75% part time, for example, could you request to go back to full time later on?

[737driver320]

Hi all - any feedback on what the assessment for NTR 320 BA/BAEF looks like?

Any tips/suggestions?

[White Van Driver]

Hello, if you were to go to 75% part time, for example, could you request to go back to full time later on?
you can request but there's no guarantee. It's been done but they make it very clear when you sign the contract that this is a permanent change.

[MarkNYC]

Hi guys.

Just wondering if anyone Has received a verbal offer recently?
I’ve been in the holding pool for quite a while now.

Thank you

[ClearenceClarence]

Can anyone drop me a PM regarding BA’s LoL cover? Had a quick question. Thanks in advance.

[sillyworm]

Heard that pilots are trying to increase the pay at the lower end of the pay scales ?
Maybe to entice more pilots to join also ?

Is this a valid rumour

[122.85]

Heard that pilots are trying to increase the pay at the lower end of the pay scales ?
Maybe to entice more pilots to join also ?

Is this a valid rumour

in a word….no

[hunterboy]

I think the question BA pilots have is why should they be funding an increase in the starting salaries? It is the companies job to recruit people. If the starting package is so poor that no one joins, then that speaks volumes. Easy fix, get IAG to stick their hand in their pocket.

[FL370 Officeboy]

I think the question BA pilots have is why should they be funding an increase in the starting salaries? It is the companies job to recruit people. If the starting package is so poor that no one joins, then that speaks volumes. Easy fix, get IAG to stick their hand in their pocket.

Who said anything about pilots funding changes

[Sick]

I think the question BA pilots have is why should they be funding an increase in the starting salaries? . Or to reverse that argument, why should junior pilots subsidize the vastly higher salaries of senior pilots, for basically doing the same job (the former with much worse rosters)? Moreover, the pay is inadequate to meet supply/demand at the junior level, but pay could probably be greatly reduced at the senior level without significant attrition (because they're still on a good thing, compared to leaving to a job elsewhere.)

[hunterboy]

Substitute the word pilots for any job title, and I’d say you have an interesting debate. However, employment law seems to allow “experience” or time served to be rewarded.
I’d suggest that if you don’t like the rostering and pay scales that a company uses, why join?

[Sick]

why join? Well indeed! It's a hill many/most experienced pilots are unwilling to climb (and after narrowly being too late to get on a cadet course in the early 90s, that's what I decided thereafter too). A reward for service is one thing (normal practice is for that to be capped at 5 years), but it has amazed me ever since that such a towering gradient of terms for the same job has continued to exist.

[roll_over]

Or to reverse that argument, why should junior pilots subsidize the vastly higher salaries of senior pilots, for basically doing the same job (the former with much worse rosters)? Moreover, the pay is inadequate to meet supply/demand at the junior level, but pay could probably be greatly reduced at the senior level without significant attrition (because they're still on a good thing, compared to leaving to a job elsewhere.)

There are wide body FOs in the US making close to 500k USD. The only subsidising happening is UK pilots of all positions subsiding their employer’s profit.

[Plastic787]

Seen/experienced the cost of living over there nowadays? Admittedly it’s still good money but if you live anywhere close to a major/good city that $500k package doesn’t begin to look anywhere near as good.

In the San Francisco Bay Area now apparently you’re not above the poverty line until you’re earning over $125k :uhoh: and plenty would debate whether that’s a desirable area anyway (outside of downtown it still is).

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Or to reverse that argument, why should junior pilots subsidize the vastly higher salaries of senior pilots, for basically doing the same job (the former with much worse rosters)? Moreover, the pay is inadequate to meet supply/demand at the junior level, but pay could probably be greatly reduced at the senior level without significant attrition (because they're still on a good thing, compared to leaving to a job elsewhere.)

Oh dear. Stop and think. If you really believe we should all get paid the same, BA will be only too happy to make that a reality. PP1 for all, forever. Better now?

[Sick]

Oh dear. Stop and think. If you really believe we should all get paid the same, BA will be only too happy to make that a reality. PP1 for all, forever. Better now? Deliberately obtuse. The original hypothesis I responded to was positing that if there's basically a fixed pot of money for pilots, why should senior pilots "subsidize" better pay for junior pilots, (or verbatim "why should they be funding an increase in the starting salaries?") when the contrary is the more conspicuous [junior pilots subsidising senior pilots, doing essentially the same job. And frankly the selfish sense of entitlement of that statement got up my nose a bit, so it thoroughly deserves a challenge].

Purely hypothetically... If indeed, that pot is fixed, flat pay wouldn't be PP1, but PP15 or so, for all, and quality pilots would be banging the doors down to try and join (and still not many would leave, especially if highly seniority based rosters remain in force). And anyway, I'm not saying the pot is fixed or shouldn't be enlarged, or there should be a flat pay structure - but supply and demand of pilots at the top and bottom end does unequivocally demonstrate that the towering pay scale and QOL is far far too tall.

[737driver320]

Anyone that has done the sim assessment (A320 NTR BAEF) that might have some feedback please?

PM or here

Massively appreciate!

[ClearenceClarence]

At the risk of opening another can of worms regarding headset usage… I use an A20 at my current outfit, would I be allowed to use those in BA?

[mrguy]

At the risk of opening another can of worms regarding headset usage… I use an A20 at my current outfit, would I be allowed to use those in BA?

A reply a few pages back said the A20 are not on the approved list.

[hunterboy]

Blimey, at this rate BA will have you paying for your own meals and hotels next.

[MarkNYC]

Hi guys!
Has anyone received a verbal offer for long haul in the last couple of weeks?

Thank You!

[Logun94]

Hi everyone I'm sure this question has been asked a thousand times but I've had a good look through the thread and can't find the answer I'm looking for.
I've got the Eagle test booked for a few weeks time and have been told the maths questions in it are different to the skytest preparation software.
Could anyone whos done the test drop me a pm with the style of the question that is asked so I can practice.

Thanks In advance

[tecnamflyer]

Can you apply if 200ish hours short of the 1500? To have the 1500 in time for the assessment

[TheAirMission]

Friend of mine joined with <1500 but would gain the required difference (think it was 90) over the 3 month notice period to joining BA. That was to go DE 777

[tecnamflyer]

Friend of mine joined with <1500 but would gain the required difference (think it was 90) over the 3 month notice period to joining BA. That was to go DE 777
Ok great thanks

Did BA not say anything about ticking the box to state you have got the 1500?

[TheAirMission]

Ok great thanks

Did BA not say anything about ticking the box to state you have got the 1500?

I wouldn't know, sorry.

[WhatShortage]

What am wondering is ... Do they pay anything to assist the tests? Aka flight tickets, hotel etc...? Rather cheap not doing it....

[3Greens]

What am wondering is ... Do they pay anything to assist the tests? Aka flight tickets, hotel etc...? Rather cheap not doing it....

ha ha yeah they provide first class travel and a night in the Dorchester 😂

[hunterboy]

I don’t think BA believe that they need to particularly encourage pilots to apply by providing hotels and flights. After all, there are enough people that will accept the relatively poor T&C’s on offer, and them complain about them once they have joined. Who knows, they will probably pay for their own headsets and uniforms too.

[WhatShortage]

ha ha yeah they provide first class travel and a night in the Dorchester 😂
That's funny, proly pilots like you makes the industry force us pay for our travel, accommodation etc just to go for their interview which +50% don't pass. Even acmi companies are paying for that. Not to mention the big ones like Qatar, Emirates, etihad etc which they pay for everything. Shame on you.

[Sick]

BA used to provide flights and hotac (in the nice Edwardian, together with a slap up dinner). That was some time back, mind.
Fly Dubai don't provide anything, (not even on their own flights), so I never pitched for the final stage. I actually could have gotten there more or less for free, but it was the principle.

[3Greens]

That's funny, proly pilots like you makes the industry force us pay for our travel, accommodation etc just to go for their interview which +50% don't pass. Even acmi companies are paying for that. Not to mention the big ones like Qatar, Emirates, etihad etc which they pay for everything. Shame on you.
The moment BA need to pay for hotal and flights they will. Fact is it hey don’t and never have so why would they? Sure it’d be nice, but I don’t see why they would or should tbh. No shame involved but thanks for the personal insult. I think to survive in BA you’ll need a thicker skin. That is, if you can make it to London for the interview without a flight and hotel provided

[Cuillin Hills]

Emirates never used to pay for flights to Dubai, for assessment, back in my day.

Some sort of, perceived, motivation test for future pilots - all changed now, of course.

[WhatShortage]

The moment BA need to pay for hotal and flights they will. Fact is it hey don’t and never have so why would they? Sure it’d be nice, but I don’t see why they would or should tbh. No shame involved but thanks for the personal insult. I think to survive in BA you’ll need a thicker skin. That is, if you can make it to London for the interview without a flight and hotel provided
I can't see an insult on my writing tbh.

Stopped wondering why we can't get anything done with the unions in Europe unlike America reading this kind of messages. People still surprised cadets pay for their type and training. Marvellous.

[clvf88]

I can't see an insult on my writing tbh.


I can.

However, I'd like to thank you for your insightful and helpful addition to this thread.

[beamer]

Amazes me how much money is ‘earned’ for doing a relatively straight forward job !

[Big Fish]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say a big thanks to all those who've contributed to this thread with well thought out posts and useful information about life at BA etc.

Going through the application process myself, so it has been really useful to have!

[Speed_Trim_Fail]

Hi all,

Just wanted to say a big thanks to all those who've contributed to this thread with well thought out posts and useful information about life at BA etc.

Going through the application process myself, so it has been really useful to have!

What a lovely post - very best of luck with it all. Hopefully see you in Pret!

[CaptainPilot2024]

Hello everyone,

I’m going to be sitting the BA Crew capacity (eagle) technical assessment, for the whitetail/speedbird self sponsored pathway programme, to apply for a role as a First officer.

To anybody who has sat/knows about this test: Is there a joystick involved?

[takeoff320]

no joystick involved, use skytest software and you will be fine. dont calculate the maths to a decimal point, just guesstimate and get the aircraft descending sooner rather than later so you can focus on the most important stuff (elec page, fuel page, radar etc)