US TN Visa for Canadians?

[bafanguy]

Anyone know if a Canadian citizen has been hired to fly in the US on a TN visa ? I don't see pilot on the list of visa-eligible occupations:

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/visas-canadian-mexican-nafta-professional-workers.html

[bafanguy]

Perhaps I should've worded my question a bit more clearly. Does anyone know what visa Canadian pilots are using to come fly for US carriers ? Or are they coming on visas at all ? Green cards don't count.

[Samten]

As far as I know, Canadians are not allowed to work as pilots in US without green card.

You may want to check the following thread:
https://www.pprune.org/north-america/642833-foreign-pilots-now-allowed-apply-green-card-5.html

especially the following quote:

Quick update on our pplication for NIW Eb-2. Don't waste thousands of $$ on lawyers. We applied on our own on Oct 08 2021, and on Feb 23 2022 our I-140 was successfully approved. I know it's not a final step yet, cause it has to go to Consular Processing, but it means that this NIW stream for pilots is working. My partner who is a petitioner has 10,000 hrs, Bachelor's Degree and French military ATC license, and currently employed with Canadian airline as a SIC. P.S. He did not do any conversion. I prepared the package by myself, so if you decide to go the same way we did, read well the cases of people who applied (can be scientists, professors) to see how the package should look like and how to fill all the forms. We had only 2 recommendation letters, but I would put 4-5. Good luck to everyone!!!
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[bafanguy]

As far as I know, Canadians are not allowed to work as pilots in US without green card.​​​​​​​

That appears to be the official case or at least what's been publicly stated by the airlines although I think I remember some scuttlebutt about Canadians working for a US ACMI carrier. But that's just scuttlebutt until the government and/or the airlines make overt statements the way Atlas, Spirit, Breeze, several regionals, etc. have done for Aussies and the E3 visa.

After watching the E3 situation, I'm just surprised the US carriers haven't made a bigger push to tap the Canadian supply. Especially so due to the license reciprocity arrangement between the two countries making it easier for Canadians to show up with an FAA ticket.

Maybe the US Imperial Federal Kakistocracy is being lobbied behind the scenes and news just hasn't leaked out yet ?

Sure, the unions will balk but unions don't hire pilots...managements do.

[bafanguy]

A bit of discussion of Canadians and US visas on AvCanada. There's the usual thread drift but a few bits germane to the subject. One guy on the first page says Atlas is hiring Canadians but offers no documentation:

US Airlines Hiring Canadians - (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?t=156507&hilit=us+visa)

[bafanguy]

Hmm, I'm a bit surprised this subject hasn't generated any responses by now.

Someone knows something. The av world is too small to keep cases of this under wraps...if they're happening. Canada is a very logical source of pilots if the USA actually needs more than they can produce themselves (yes, lots of room for debate on that one).

I suspect lots of things go on behind the scenes. We just need someone to tell us about them.

[bafanguy]

Ran across this ad for A320 pilots in the USA. It mentions Canadians as eligible. I don't know anything about the company and the pay is a little on the low side. I have no idea what visa category they are touting for Canadians:


** Visa sponsorship NOW AVAILABLE**

The sponsorship opportunity is available only for Canadians, Mexicans, Chileans, and Singaporeans.

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/17496.html

[Messerschmitt]

Hmm, I'm a bit surprised this subject hasn't generated any responses by now.

Someone knows something. The av world is too small to keep cases of this under wraps...if they're happening. Canada is a very logical source of pilots if the USA actually needs more than they can produce themselves (yes, lots of room for debate on that one).

I suspect lots of things go on behind the scenes. We just need someone to tell us about them.

Especially since with the dirt salary pilots in Canada get paid (AC is shameful, regionals in US get paid significantly more), the US carriers can lobby, push the government to allow CAN pilots to work in the US, meaning the US carriers now have the pilots they need for far cheaper than the going rate of US citizens. (basically they could pay CAN pilots something like 75% and they would flock since that 75% would still be significantly more than they can get flying for the leaf)

[bafanguy]

Especially since with the dirt salary pilots in Canada get paid (AC is shameful, regionals in US get paid significantly more), the US carriers can lobby, push the government to allow CAN pilots to work in the US, meaning the US carriers now have the pilots they need for far cheaper than the going rate of US citizens. (basically they could pay CAN pilots something like 75% and they would flock since that 75% would still be significantly more than they can get flying for the leaf)

It may be that there's been a push to get Canadian pilots into the USA to work but I haven't seen this specifically documented...could be...I don't see everything...even though I try to follow such things. But I'd expect that to have made the news with documented cases/details of how it happened and where.

As for the pay a Canadian pilot would get in the USA, if they work for a company with a negotiated labor contract, the Canadians would get pay established by that contract. There would be no selective lower pay for one category of pilot vs another.

[+TSRA]

I work with a lot of guys and gals who gush over the idea of working in the US. I know of a few pilots who have gone south, but in each case the person had married an American or was permitted citizenship through birthright or had some other link to the US that allowed them to go a different route. Of the guys I personally know who applied who don't have any links to the US, one stopped the process when the lawyer told him it was not looking good (after $20k spent), another is sitting in limbo, and a third was denied. I think quite a few pilots got excited at the idea of heading south, but the cost burden to do so is just too high. I know, I know, you'll make it back within a few years. But you still have to have the money now. Not a lot of pilots are young enough to make a go of it, who also have the type of experience and education that will get them through the door, who also have sufficient disposable income to cover the fees and moving expenses, and who are also willing to uproot their families for the job. Then there are other people whose spouse steps in and says not a chance (like mine). I think a lot of people see it as a great opportunity, but come to realize money isn't everything and they have a good thing going at the airlines in Canada even if that means they're not making the most in the industry. I'm not saying I wouldn't jump at the chance if my bride would let me, but at the same time I'm comfortable with what I earn - and I believe a lot of people ultimately end up in the same spot. Someone will always fly faster, higher, lower, and slower and someone else will always make more or less money.

Also, may I point out the hypocrisy in this discussion? Canadian pilots are begging our government to stop the temporary foreign worker program so that we can force the companies to increase pilot wages. There is no pilot shortage we say, just a pay rate that younger pilots don't want to work for. Yet at the same time we're begging the American government to open their border because there is a pilot shortage that we can fill... Huh.